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11 minutes ago, smjjames said:

You know someone is going to ask this: Has it been verified by anybody else?

Yeah, by the protesters that admitted they did this.


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1 hour ago, Gromnir said:

saw this story 'bout a week ago and couldn't think o' a good way to respond. 

short o' burning books as fuel to prevent hypothermia, am thinking a book burner voluntarily yields moral high ground. burn huckleberry finn. burn bible. burn quran. burn lolita. heck, burn the unabomber's manifesto would bother us on some level. if you are so angered by a writing you cannot respond intelligent, then you should reflect on such anger and consider what the burning says 'bout the act o' destruction, 'cause such destruction doesn't say anything constructive 'bout the work being torched but it does say much 'bout the one indulging in pyrotechnics.

...

that said, we do not like "white privilege" label. if you claim minorities is disadvantaged in the US, am suspecting most college aged kids would agree, including those at georgia-southern. however, "white privilege" implies that white folks, regardless o' their situation, didn't earn what they has worked hard to aquire. protestant work ethic, though diminished in recent decades, is still a thing here in the US. Americans tend to work more hours and with less vacation than a large % o' the western world, but even if they didn't, suggest white americans hasn't earned what they got, or has exploited others to succeed means you start a conversation 'bout race by potential placing +60% o' the population on the defensive. meaningful dialectic regarding race is elusive, so why make more difficult when simple change in definitions and labels avoids conflict?

have heard the arguments from our family who tell us white americans need "wake up" and realize just how unbalanced is US society, and the only way they recognize the depth o' the inequality is to fundamental challenge preconceptions.  unfortunate, from our pov, "white privilege" polarizes listeners rather than creating reflection or dialogue opportunities. why start a conversation with a label you know is gonna drive some portion o' moderate listeners to become adversarial? 

have watched the baldwin and buckley cambridge debate a few dozen times over the years. much has changed since 1965. sadly, much has remained same. am by nature more inclined to find resonance with baldwin than buckley and am not suggesting "white privilege" is unworthy o' discussion and debate. however, from a practical perspective, those who accuse the 60% o' white privilege is polarizing folks who might ordinarily be open to the notion that unavoidable class handicaps unfair and disproportionate continue to affect large numbers o' Americans, and it polarizes far too many such folks to opposition.  

nevertheless, one would hope a college campus would be a place where in 2019 white privilege could be discussed w/o resorting to the kinda action we dismiss as a trapping o' nazis... or florida man

HA! Good Fun!

I am genuinely curious if they are history savvy enough to realize what a bad look that is. But then again the words "Nazi" and "Socialist" are thrown around so liberally these days their definition is changing before our eyes. It's doubtful the younger college and high school aged folks have more than an abstract understanding of why those words were bad. Especially since people with first or second hand knowledge are dying off. History tends to get sanitized the farther away it gets.

You are definitely correct that putting people's backs up is a poor beginning to a thoughtful discussion. But this whole notion of "white privilege" is a bunch of hooey.  There is, however, a "majority privilege". It exists in every nation on this earth and benefits, to one extent or another, the ethnic/religious/sociologically homogeneous  majority in that country. The US does not ruthlessly persecute and suppress minorities like it once did. Nor does it promote the interests of the ethnic majority over minorities. Quite the opposite actually. Such biases that exist that create a privilege are in the people themselves. And even that lessens with every generation. Malcom X wrote that racism is bred into society. Children learn it from their elders. Compare the US now to the 1960's. The 1940's. It can be bred out of a society too and it seems to be happening. 

The biggest difference between the US and most of the other countries with respect to majority privilege is they don't spend near as much time navel gazing over it's existence as we do. Is that a good thing? I guess so. The desire to be better is certainly a virtue.

 

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"I care nothing for a man's religion whose dog and cat are not the better for it"

Abraham Lincoln

 

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3 minutes ago, Guard Dog said:

I am genuinely curious if they are history savvy enough to realize what a bad look that is.

Not saying the people in the picture are Trump voters... but the similarity in the underlying mindset is worrying.

PEm23Et.jpg

 

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“He who joyfully marches to music in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would surely suffice.” - Albert Einstein

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Trump's letter to Erdogan has been released and it's an 'interesting' read. A beautiful letter, more beautiful even than the ones Kim sends to Trump...

Turks have also lost their first confirmed Leopard tank since their invasion started, and it's unlikely anyone who was in it survived. Learnt nothing from their fight with ISIS in Al Bab, about a dozen targets (including rather bizarrely a self propelled artillery piece that ought to be way further back) almost all side on with no infantry screen in sight. If the YPG had a dozen ATGMs instead of one there would have been a dozen destroyed vehicles rather than just one.

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I am just going to guess they decided to drive it down an alley surrounded by low-rise buildings.


Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra

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Probably worse than that actually- open country on a Y shaped road with the ATGM team at the top of the Y and pretty close too, maybe 1300m distance judging by flight time. Tank crews looked like they were all chilling behind the lines rather than in a combat zone too but at least the road had a bit of a berm to it.

(Turks now say it was an ACV15 having earlier said they lost a Leopard, and judging by the longer video which shows the wreck better I'm inclined to believe their correction)

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15 hours ago, Skarpen said:

Yeah, by the protesters that admitted they did this.

I wonder why they didn't bring their windpowered generators, or solar cells. What the **** do they need a generator for btw? I thought they were camping? What the **** do they need electricity for?


Civilization, in fact, grows more and more maudlin and hysterical; especially under democracy it tends to degenerate into a mere combat of crazes; the whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, most of them imaginary. - H.L. Mencken

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Because you cant whine on social media with a dead phone. :biggrin:

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image,Gfted1,black,red.png

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Didn't think of that actually, thanks! XD


Civilization, in fact, grows more and more maudlin and hysterical; especially under democracy it tends to degenerate into a mere combat of crazes; the whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, most of them imaginary. - H.L. Mencken

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1 hour ago, Azdeus said:

I wonder why they didn't bring their windpowered generators, or solar cells. What the **** do they need a generator for btw? I thought they were camping? What the **** do they need electricity for?

Well the revolution will be on our cell phones.  Or something.

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Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra

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The emoluments clause sirens just got cranked to 11, the WH has announced that the G7 summit next year will be at Trump's Miami Doral resort. The Guardian liveblog with bits on it.

Given the slim but very real risk of a hurricane strike, they'd better have a backup plan. Also, they'd REALLY hope that the place doesn't have bedbugs as the alleged report said (though that was years ago).

Edited by smjjames

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Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra

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Yeah USA will give Turkey everything they said they wanted from their invasion if they stop their invasion. And there is no need to ask if Kurds and Syria will accept to give big part of their land to Turkey's control. Such great deal for Turkey.

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Another 11D chess masterstroke.


- When he is best, he is a little worse than a man, and when he is worst, he is little better than a beast.

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The agreement is definitely cover for Trump and nothing else, 'peacefully' handing the Sudetenland safe zone over to Turkey in what is to all practical a surrender as abject as Chamberlain's. It 'gives' the US nothing and Turkey everything. 'Gives' because it's also completely unenforceable as the US has no real leverage left over the Kurds and the only leverage they have over the government forces that hold most of the 'safe zone' and all its major cities now is sanctions relief which would only come if they drop the Russians and Iranians- indeed, with Saudi making positive overtures due to their loathing of Turkey leverage has decreased even more. Gives Trump a chance to salute a victory, and potentially blame the Kurds plus dump the mess into Russia's lap when the truce collapses.

The one thing that absolutely has not changed is that for internal political reasons Erdogan needs somewhere to dump his highly unpopular refugees. They've managed to actually take one largish town in Tal Abyad/ Girespi, and that ain't anywhere near enough.

(Bit of fake news just released too, saying the SDF has accepted the agreement. They haven't, they've accepted the ceasefire, for the active combat zones, only, and not the agreement. Looks like Al Jazeera Arabic truncated a quote from a Kurdish TV station, and others like Beeb picked it up from there)

h34jp1plg5t31.png

[added agreement text. 9&10 are probably most important]

Edited by Zoraptor
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Our Republic Is Under Attack From the President

op-ed from retired navy admiral william h. mcraven. original posted at nyt.

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"If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

"Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)

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likely wishful to think, but the piece by McRaven reads as the lone raindrop that will break the dam against conviction in the Senate

Quote

If our promises are meaningless, how will our allies ever trust us? If we can’t have faith in our nation’s principles, why would the men and women of this nation join the military? And if they don’t join, who will protect us? If we are not the champions of the good and the right, then who will follow us? And if no one follows us — where will the world end up?

 


All Stop. On Screen.

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31 minutes ago, ManifestedISO said:

likely wishful to think, but the piece by McRaven reads as the lone raindrop that will break the dam against conviction in the Senate

You guys are acting like it's the first time US screwed over an ally and made a deal with the bad guys. 

Acting as it's the end of the world because president made a decision you don't like is childish and only ensures his reelection.


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HA! Good Fun!

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"If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

"Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)

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History will look back on Trump and say "This man was a fool"


"I care nothing for a man's religion whose dog and cat are not the better for it"

Abraham Lincoln

 

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fyi: the full al smith dinner speech from mattis is worth listening to.

 

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"If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

"Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)

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probably inaccurate, purely emotional salve for the last 31 days in American politics ... watch the original John Wick and substitute Keanu for 'the rule of law'


All Stop. On Screen.

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So after Trump going with "there was no quid pro quo" as a defense since the Ukraine story broke,  Mulvaney admitted to a quid pro quo in a press conference, including the words "We do that all the time... get over it".

But, apparently Mulvaney's declaration wasn't quite planned (Trump liked it, his legal team hated it (gasp!)), so he came out with a retraction just a couple of hours later.

Wait, did I say retraction? Not quite that. What he actually did was blame the press for misconstruing what he said, where misconstruing appears to have the alternative definition of "reporting what is said on camera, verbatim".

Only the best people.


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2 hours ago, Guard Dog said:

History will look back on Trump and say "This man was a fool"

In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king 😂


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