TURN BASED combat in Deadfire?!

[padovani]

 

 

This is a kind of information Obsidian wanted to gather.

That "accidental" release of TB mode was done to probe us. They want to know if they should bother with adding TB to the game.

 

 

The turn-based update is motivated by the console releases 100%. It eases so much of the jank of playing a game like this with a controller. 

[IndiraLightfoot]

Josh has revealed that he prefers turn-based, and he really dig Battle Brothers, and he backed Realms Beyond really generously, so I hope that he's behind this and that he gets to be the mastermind behind the system tweaks needed for this mode. I love both turn-based and RTwP - actually, the quality of the game decides whether it's good, mediocre or bad. Just this being worked and then hopefully later included will probably encourage me to play the game all the way through a third time.

Edited December 21, 2018 by IndiraLightfoot

[Purudaya]

I loathe turn-based crpgs not because the mechanics are necessarily bad, but because it just kills immersion for me. People do not take turns in combat, they act simultaneously - and while you can kind of imagine that all of the turns are playing out at the same time, the presentation in, say, D:OS looks more like a miniatures board game than a battlefield. it's the same reason I could never get into a single final fantasy title. 

 

I think it's cool that Obsidian is creating the option for those who prefer turn-based, though. Would be nice if turn-based game developers would make a similar accommodation.

[Manveru123]

 

 

 

This is a kind of information Obsidian wanted to gather.

That "accidental" release of TB mode was done to probe us. They want to know if they should bother with adding TB to the game.

 

 

The turn-based update is motivated by the console releases 100%. It eases so much of the jank of playing a game like this with a controller. 

 

Good observation! Imagine they're making turn-based as console exclusive game mode. I can already taste the salt :D

 

I loathe turn-based crpgs not because the mechanics are necessarily bad, but because it just kills immersion for me. People do not take turns in combat, they act simultaneously - and while you can kind of imagine that all of the turns are playing out at the same time, the presentation in, say, D:OS looks more like a miniatures board game than a battlefield. it's the same reason I could never get into a single final fantasy title. 

 

I think it's cool that Obsidian is creating the option for those who prefer turn-based, though. Would be nice if turn-based game developers would make a similar accommodation.

Recent Final Fantasy titles are all aRPGs, or a mix.

[Clerith]

GOTY release with turn-based combat option? Marketed well? Considering how well DOS2 sold... honestly, I think it'd be a smart attempt.

 

I'd definitely try one playthrough, though I wonder how much enemy health will have to be lowered to make the big encounters anywhere near fast enough.

[Murp]

I'm really happy that they're doing this when they really didn't have too. It'd be quite nice for future replayability.

 

I am generally really annoyed by turn based combat and am kind of worried that this might make an affect on future titles if it goes over well,

but I trust Obsidian will do right by us RTwP lovers.

[Purudaya]

 

I loathe turn-based crpgs not because the mechanics are necessarily bad, but because it just kills immersion for me. People do not take turns in combat, they act simultaneously - and while you can kind of imagine that all of the turns are playing out at the same time, the presentation in, say, D:OS looks more like a miniatures board game than a battlefield. it's the same reason I could never get into a single final fantasy title. 

 

I think it's cool that Obsidian is creating the option for those who prefer turn-based, though. Would be nice if turn-based game developers would make a similar accommodation.

Recent Final Fantasy titles are all aRPGs, or a mix.

 

 

Ah. That actually might be a better fit for the franchise. I just have distinct memories seeing my friend play FF7 on his playstation and watching his character run 20 yards up to an enemy, hit him with a sword the size of a dinner table, and run back - only to have the enemy do the exact same thing. I remember thinking that it was one of the dumbest things I'd ever seen, because even at 12 I somehow innately understood the immersion-crushing wrongness of presenting a combat encounter that way.

Edited December 22, 2018 by Purudaya

[draego]

 

 

I loathe turn-based crpgs not because the mechanics are necessarily bad, but because it just kills immersion for me. People do not take turns in combat, they act simultaneously - and while you can kind of imagine that all of the turns are playing out at the same time, the presentation in, say, D:OS looks more like a miniatures board game than a battlefield. it's the same reason I could never get into a single final fantasy title. 

 

I think it's cool that Obsidian is creating the option for those who prefer turn-based, though. Would be nice if turn-based game developers would make a similar accommodation.

Recent Final Fantasy titles are all aRPGs, or a mix.

 

 

Ah. That actually might be a better fit for the franchise. I just have distinct memories seeing my friend play FF7 on his playstation and watching his character run 20 yards up to an enemy, hit him with a sword the size of a dinner table, and run back - only to have the enemy do the exact same thing. I remember thinking that it was one of the dumbest things I'd ever seen, because even at 12 I somehow innately understood the immersion-crushing wrongness of presenting a combat encounter that way.

 

 

how dare you sir LOL 

[Purudaya]

 

 

 

I loathe turn-based crpgs not because the mechanics are necessarily bad, but because it just kills immersion for me. People do not take turns in combat, they act simultaneously - and while you can kind of imagine that all of the turns are playing out at the same time, the presentation in, say, D:OS looks more like a miniatures board game than a battlefield. it's the same reason I could never get into a single final fantasy title. 

 

I think it's cool that Obsidian is creating the option for those who prefer turn-based, though. Would be nice if turn-based game developers would make a similar accommodation.

Recent Final Fantasy titles are all aRPGs, or a mix.

 

 

Ah. That actually might be a better fit for the franchise. I just have distinct memories seeing my friend play FF7 on his playstation and watching his character run 20 yards up to an enemy, hit him with a sword the size of a dinner table, and run back - only to have the enemy do the exact same thing. I remember thinking that it was one of the dumbest things I'd ever seen, because even at 12 I somehow innately understood the immersion-crushing wrongness of presenting a combat encounter that way.

 

 

how dare you sir LOL 

 

 

FF: Card Game

D:OS: Board Game

PoE: Computer Game. For Adults.

 

 

[protopersona]

I think it's cool that Obsidian is creating the option for those who prefer turn-based, though. Would be nice if turn-based game developers would make a similar accommodation.

 

If Deadfire gets a big enough sales boost from this though, all it's going to do is further reinforce the idea that turn based sells better than RTWP. Thus providing even less incentive for turn based games to add an optional real time mode.

[AndreaColombo]

If MS’s marketing department know what they are doing, they’ll realize how poor marketing was behind Deadfire’s lackluster sales. If they’re not worth their salt, then yeah: good-bye RTwP, should TB prove successful.

 

A shame, if you ask me. RTwP is a very good system.

[jf8350143]

Pathfinder Kingmaker could really use a tunr based mod, Deadfire, with its ultra slow mode, not so much.

 

But it's great to have one, I'd definately try it out if they put it in.

[kanisatha]

 

I think it's cool that Obsidian is creating the option for those who prefer turn-based, though. Would be nice if turn-based game developers would make a similar accommodation.

 

If Deadfire gets a big enough sales boost from this though, all it's going to do is further reinforce the idea that turn based sells better than RTWP. Thus providing even less incentive for turn based games to add an optional real time mode.

But other recent TB RPGs have done poorly, sales-wise: T:ToN, BT4; and Realms Beyond barely made it across the line for its Kickstarter. TB comes across as being extra popular because TB fans tend to be much more vocal and insistent on their preference than RTwP fans.

[frogmoth]

Pathfinder Kingmaker could really use a tunr based mod, Deadfire, with its ultra slow mode, not so much.

 

But it's great to have one, I'd definately try it out if they put it in.

You know that P:K has a "slow mode", right? You use the "v" button for it...

[Manveru123]

 

 

I loathe turn-based crpgs not because the mechanics are necessarily bad, but because it just kills immersion for me. People do not take turns in combat, they act simultaneously - and while you can kind of imagine that all of the turns are playing out at the same time, the presentation in, say, D:OS looks more like a miniatures board game than a battlefield. it's the same reason I could never get into a single final fantasy title. 

 

I think it's cool that Obsidian is creating the option for those who prefer turn-based, though. Would be nice if turn-based game developers would make a similar accommodation.

Recent Final Fantasy titles are all aRPGs, or a mix.

 

 

Ah. That actually might be a better fit for the franchise. I just have distinct memories seeing my friend play FF7 on his playstation and watching his character run 20 yards up to an enemy, hit him with a sword the size of a dinner table, and run back - only to have the enemy do the exact same thing. I remember thinking that it was one of the dumbest things I'd ever seen, because even at 12 I somehow innately understood the immersion-crushing wrongness of presenting a combat encounter that way.

 

Hardly. This is an attempt to cater to a different kind of audience, because die-hard FF fans are already hooked in. ATB based combat from previous FF games is clearly superior for most of the fans.

[Manveru123]

 

 

I think it's cool that Obsidian is creating the option for those who prefer turn-based, though. Would be nice if turn-based game developers would make a similar accommodation.

 

If Deadfire gets a big enough sales boost from this though, all it's going to do is further reinforce the idea that turn based sells better than RTWP. Thus providing even less incentive for turn based games to add an optional real time mode.

But other recent TB RPGs have done poorly, sales-wise: T:ToN, BT4; and Realms Beyond barely made it across the line for its Kickstarter. TB comes across as being extra popular because TB fans tend to be much more vocal and insistent on their preference than RTwP fans.

 

Because what people don't seem to realize is that combat is not everything in an RPG title. T:ToN and BT4 sold badly because they sucked, not because they had turn-based combat (although in ToN case, it was really horrible).

[jf8350143]

 

Pathfinder Kingmaker could really use a tunr based mod, Deadfire, with its ultra slow mode, not so much.

 

But it's great to have one, I'd definately try it out if they put it in.

You know that P:K has a "slow mode", right? You use the "v" button for it...

 

It has a slow mod, but Pathfinder's whole combat system was supposed to be played as turn based, all the classes, feats and such are designed around the idea of turn based combat. No matter how slow you make it, it won't change that.

 

Deadfire on the other hand, is designed for a computer, as a real time game with pause.

Edited December 22, 2018 by jf8350143

[JerekKruger]

A shame, if you ask me. RTwP is a very good system.

Agreed. RTwP is one of the things about IE games I loved. It'll be a shame if it dies off.

[Manveru123]

 

 

Pathfinder Kingmaker could really use a tunr based mod, Deadfire, with its ultra slow mode, not so much.

 

But it's great to have one, I'd definately try it out if they put it in.

You know that P:K has a "slow mode", right? You use the "v" button for it...

 

It has a slow mod, but Pathfinder's whole combat system was supposed to be played as turn based, all the classes, feats and such are designed around the idea of turn based combat. No matter how slow you make it, it won't change that.

 

Deadfire on the other hand, is designed for a computer, as a real time game with pause.

 

You could say the same about AD&D. There were both rtwp and turn based games made in this system, guess which of them were more popular?

 

Totally agree about Deadfire tho. Turn based IS however much easier to implement on consoles, and I wouldn't be surprised if that's the direction the game - or POE3 - goes.

Edited December 22, 2018 by Manveru123

[protopersona]

 

 

 

Pathfinder Kingmaker could really use a tunr based mod, Deadfire, with its ultra slow mode, not so much.

 

But it's great to have one, I'd definately try it out if they put it in.

You know that P:K has a "slow mode", right? You use the "v" button for it...

 

It has a slow mod, but Pathfinder's whole combat system was supposed to be played as turn based, all the classes, feats and such are designed around the idea of turn based combat. No matter how slow you make it, it won't change that.

 

Deadfire on the other hand, is designed for a computer, as a real time game with pause.

 

You could say the same about AD&D. There were both rtwp and turn based games made in this system, guess which of them were more popular?

 

Totally agree about Deadfire tho. Turn based IS however much easier to implement on consoles, and I wouldn't be surprised if that's the direction the game - or POE3 - goes.

 

I think the relative popularity of the Infinity Engine games has more to do with the visual polish than with being a better implementation of the system. The gold box games were a blocky pixelated mess even in their prime, but were truer to the game system itself. They were also much deeper than what Baldur's Gate and later games accomplished, outside of maybe Planescape.

 

Tabletop RPGs have been turn based out of necessity, but the abstraction really helps when dealing with a party. I think real time is much more suited to games where you're only managing a single unit. Probably the main reason Obsidian tried so hard to make a decent AI system in the sequel. There's just too much for the average person to keep track of in the heat of battle.

Edited December 23, 2018 by protopersona

[Triple - A Foxy Lad]

Think there might also be some correlation between rtwp's height and flowering of rts genre. Infinity engine hopped on contemporary trends to hawk its wares.

[Manveru123]

 

 

 

 

Pathfinder Kingmaker could really use a tunr based mod, Deadfire, with its ultra slow mode, not so much.

 

But it's great to have one, I'd definately try it out if they put it in.

You know that P:K has a "slow mode", right? You use the "v" button for it...

 

It has a slow mod, but Pathfinder's whole combat system was supposed to be played as turn based, all the classes, feats and such are designed around the idea of turn based combat. No matter how slow you make it, it won't change that.

 

Deadfire on the other hand, is designed for a computer, as a real time game with pause.

 

You could say the same about AD&D. There were both rtwp and turn based games made in this system, guess which of them were more popular?

 

Totally agree about Deadfire tho. Turn based IS however much easier to implement on consoles, and I wouldn't be surprised if that's the direction the game - or POE3 - goes.

 

I think the relative popularity of the Infinity Engine games has more to do with the visual polish than with being a better implementation of the system. The gold box games were a blocky pixelated mess even in their prime, but were truer to the game system itself. They were also much deeper than what Baldur's Gate and later games accomplished, outside of maybe Planescape.

 

Tabletop RPGs have been turn based out of necessity, but the abstraction really helps when dealing with a party. I think real time is much more suited to games where you're only managing a single unit. Probably the main reason Obsidian tried so had to make a decent AI system in the sequel. There's just too much for the average person to keep track of in the heat of battle.

 

One example from the top of my head: pretty sure Temple of Elemental Evil did not look worse than Baldur's Gate. And it had tactical combat implemented very well. Yet barely anyone talks about (or even remembers) this game.

[protopersona]

 

I think the relative popularity of the Infinity Engine games has more to do with the visual polish than with being a better implementation of the system. The gold box games were a blocky pixelated mess even in their prime, but were truer to the game system itself. They were also much deeper than what Baldur's Gate and later games accomplished, outside of maybe Planescape.

 

Tabletop RPGs have been turn based out of necessity, but the abstraction really helps when dealing with a party. I think real time is much more suited to games where you're only managing a single unit. Probably the main reason Obsidian tried so had to make a decent AI system in the sequel. There's just too much for the average person to keep track of in the heat of battle.

One example from the top of my head: pretty sure Temple of Elemental Evil did not look worse than Baldur's Gate. And it had tactical combat implemented very well. Yet barely anyone talks about (or even remembers) this game.

ToEE got a lot less press and was overshadowed by Neverwinter Nights. Isometric games had become played out by that point after so many RPGs had used them. The 3d graphics of NN were the shiny new thing by that point. Really it's the same scenario, just a different graphics jump.

 

I mean there's a reason there's so much statistical evidence that shows graphics sell better than gameplay.

 

Back on topic, I'm genuinely torn on this feature. I was planning to have a complete game run when the last DLC dropped. Then they leaked the possibility of a turn based mode. Now I'm not sure if I want to run the game in real time or wait even longer for the turn based feature.

Edited December 23, 2018 by protopersona

[Saito Hikari]

ToEE got a lot less press and was overshadowed by Neverwinter Nights. Isometric games had become played out by that point after so many RPGs had used them. The 3d graphics of NN were the shiny new thing by that point. Really it's the same scenario, just a different graphics jump.

I mean there's a reason there's so much statistical evidence that shows graphics sell better than gameplay.

 

Back on topic, I'm genuinely torn on this feature. I was planning to have a complete game run when the last DLC dropped. Then they leaked the possibility of a turn based mode. Now I'm not sure if I want to run the game in real time or wait even longer for the turn based feature.

 

That's pretty much the same boat I'm on right now. I've put my new playthrough on hold to wait for turn-based mode.

 

That said, I've heard Temple of Elemental Evil being thrown around a lot for a game that supposedly had a near perfect implementation of turn-based combat, so I'm seriously considering looking into getting that in the meantime. Alas, I couldn't get into Baldur's Gate since I found it a bit too obtuse for my sadly modern gaming mind, but I guess I would attempt ToEE and attempt Bauldr's Gate again down the road, now that I have more experience with DnD terminology.

Edited December 23, 2018 by Saito Hikari

[Wormerine]

Alas, I couldn't get into Baldur's Gate since I found it a bit too obtuse for my sadly modern gaming mind, but I guess I would attempt ToEE and attempt Bauldr's Gate again down the road, now that I have more experience with DnD terminology.

When starting up Baldur’s Gate make sure to use the PDF which comes with the game. BG UI doesn’t explain what everything does but the system itself is fairly basic, though the enhanced edition UI at least show how items affect your stats which makes things easier.