Hoo Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 Several sub-classes, such as Corpse Eater, most of Druid's sub-classes, and so on, really need to be buffed. Furthermore, a few races, like Fire Godlike, also should be improved imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asnjas Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 I mean no offense but i really feel sorry for these types of gamers. The nickel and dime min and max type of gamers. I dont mean anyone specifically, but i see many people clearly having less fun with the classes than i simply because they get so caught up in balance. Its like some problem invented by gamers and they trick themeves into believing it needs to be addressed. Everything do3snt need to be perfectly balanced. It will never be perf3ctly balanced. Balance is such an over rated concept in video games these days. I believe this pressure to please gamers in regards to balance has hurt games over all. Id much rather have many abilities, classes, passives etc that i can tinker and toy around with with a larger varience in strength. This is preferable to reduced abilities with smaller gap in power. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elric Galad Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 Bad balance is still a bit annoying. It is especially bad for replayability and number of options. One is usually tempted to go for the strongest build, or at least a build that has an unique combination of relevant feat. It is not a big issue if some abilities are no brainer and a couple are bad.The sweet spot is when all classes/races are strong enough to find a room in a party without feeling gimped, and all subclasses could be good enough for at least a couple of builds. This sweet spot is quite close at the moment IMHO. We should not expect perfect balance as it is not needed for a single player game. Yes Wiz and monk are a bit strong, Corpse Eater and Fire Godlike could get a bit of love and most Martial Single Classes feel a bit limited compared to their Multi counter parts. But it is already MILES ABOVE BG2 . 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uuuhhii Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 druid spiritshift need some major buff and attention corpse eater stalker and all wizard subclass too and many other subclass they are not just weak but also not interesting enough and fun are more important than balance 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trisyln Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 Priest of wael / lifegiver universalist is stupidly OP, and avoids early ending fights because your healer gets gibbed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harpagornis Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 We agree that Druid Spiritshifting needs some attention. But as there most likely wont be any big changes from Obsidian its up to the community to balance things. Our Shifter Mod is a first step into that direction - its still evolving! 1 PoE II: Druid Shifter: Evolution Mod Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verde Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 Priest of wael / lifegiver universalist is stupidly OP, and avoids early ending fights because your healer gets gibbed. They really can't consider every multi and whether it's too powerful or not. The game rewards your for experimenting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndreaColombo Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 Spiritshift isn’t good, huh? Might have something to do with the gratuitous, uncalled for nerf it got in 1.1. But I digress... 1 "Time is not your enemy. Forever is." — Fall-From-Grace, Planescape: Torment "It's the questions we can't answer that teach us the most. They teach us how to think. If you give a man an answer, all he gains is a little fact. But give him a question, and he'll look for his own answers." — Kvothe, The Wise Man's Fears My Deadfire mods: Brilliant Mod | Faster Deadfire | Deadfire Unnerfed | Helwalker Rekke | Permanent Per-Rest Bonuses | PoE Items for Deadfire | No Recyled Icons | Soul Charged Nautilus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DozingDragon Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 (edited) What were the nerfs to spiritshift in 1.1? Just the reductions for the wildstrike abilities? Edited October 17, 2018 by DozingDragon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InsaneCommander Posted October 18, 2018 Share Posted October 18, 2018 (edited) and fun are more important than balance I agree. Many times I plan a character thinking about how to make them powerful, just to mess the build with something I think is cool. Edited October 18, 2018 by InsaneCommander Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elric Galad Posted October 19, 2018 Share Posted October 19, 2018 (edited) and fun are more important than balance I agree. Many times I plan a character thinking about how to make them powerful, just to mess the build with something I think is cool. Well, I am OK with builds being sub-optimal but I don't like feeling gimped. As long as a character as abilities of its own, I don't care if it is not the best Single Target DPS or the best Tank. But I like to have at least a "special perk". That is the reason why weak classes are more a concern for me that strong ones. I am OK with Wiz and Monk being a bit too strong because they still can't replicate unique abilities of other classes. Wiz cant' heal so they aren't stricly superior to Druids or Priests. That's the reason why the only big concern I have is about Martial Single Class Ressource Pool. They're currently so low that their High Tier abilities can't be used more than a couple of time. Their sustainability is abysmal compared to infinite ressource classes, single casters or multiclass martial. And that feels weak and kills the fun at the same time ^^ Edited October 19, 2018 by Elric Galad 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hilfazer Posted October 19, 2018 Share Posted October 19, 2018 That is the reason why weak classes are more a concern for me that strong ones. You'd make a good single player game designer. Vancian =/= per rest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InsaneCommander Posted October 19, 2018 Share Posted October 19, 2018 That's the reason why the only big concern I have is about Martial Single Class Ressource Pool. They're currently so low that their High Tier abilities can't be used more than a couple of time. Their sustainability is abysmal compared to infinite ressource classes, single casters or multiclass martial. And that feels weak and kills the fun at the same time ^^ I agree with that too. If I didn't have invisibility potions my rogue wouldn't be the same. With 11 guile, spending 2 to go invisible significantly reduces the number of times I can use other abilities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Purudaya Posted October 19, 2018 Share Posted October 19, 2018 and fun are more important than balance I agree. Many times I plan a character thinking about how to make them powerful, just to mess the build with something I think is cool. That's the reason why the only big concern I have is about Martial Single Class Ressource Pool. They're currently so low that their High Tier abilities can't be used more than a couple of time. Their sustainability is abysmal compared to infinite ressource classes, single casters or multiclass martial. And that feels weak and kills the fun at the same time ^^ The one exception to this is probably single-class monk, which has very good PL 8 and 9 abilities that make the trade off worth it (that and the split resource pool). I agree that they should increase resource pool for single classes, but the better alternative would be to give all martial classes a variety of high level actives that are genuinely powerfu/attractive and not unreasonably high in cost. If investing in a single class character track means sacrificing that much power pool, there needs to be at least one ability that's the martial equivalent of missile salvo, symbol of eothas, etc.. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elric Galad Posted October 19, 2018 Share Posted October 19, 2018 That is the reason why weak classes are more a concern for me that strong ones. You'd make a good single player game designer. Well, I don't know but I won't be reasonning the same for a Multiplayer Game of course. Furthermore, this is (mostly) a party Single Player Game where classes are supposed to be complementary. This further decreases the problem that a couple of classes are a bit too strong. The best parties are not the ones that replicate x5 the same build. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elric Galad Posted October 19, 2018 Share Posted October 19, 2018 The one exception to this is probably single-class monk, which has very good PL 8 and 9 abilities that make the trade off worth it (that and the split resource pool). I agree that they should increase resource pool for single classes, but the better alternative would be to give all martial classes a variety of high level actives that are genuinely powerfu/attractive and not unreasonably high in cost. If investing in a single class character track means sacrificing that much power pool, there needs to be at least one ability that's the martial equivalent of missile salvo, symbol of eothas, etc.. Monk is always the exception. I've become tired of always saying "martials but monks" so in the case of the previous sentence, I put him under the "infinite ressource classes" category In my opinion, a combination of both great Tier 8/9 and a bit more ressources would be enough. I think current Tier 8/9 level of power are mostly sufficient (some could be better but...) If we take the example of the ranger, I think Whirling Strike and Heart Seeker are great enough. Heart Seeker has probably the very best synergy with parties based on CC (especially Hard CC with short Duration) and Whirling Strike might be the best Melee Ability of the game (and synergize well with Heart Seeker due to DoT). Problem : quite low pool. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thelee Posted October 19, 2018 Share Posted October 19, 2018 (edited) I mean no offense but i really feel sorry for these types of gamers. The nickel and dime min and max type of gamers. I dont mean anyone specifically, but i see many people clearly having less fun with the classes than i simply because they get so caught up in balance. Its like some problem invented by gamers and they trick themeves into believing it needs to be addressed. Everything do3snt need to be perfectly balanced. It will never be perf3ctly balanced. Balance is such an over rated concept in video games these days. I believe this pressure to please gamers in regards to balance has hurt games over all. Id much rather have many abilities, classes, passives etc that i can tinker and toy around with with a larger varience in strength. This is preferable to reduced abilities with smaller gap in power. considering that obsidian is steadily amping up the mid-late game difficulty for PotD i think balance matters more than ever. i had an unoptimized potd party (because after several runs i just wnated to have "fun" insetad of focus on power) and after SSS came out i definitely struggled a lot more than a better party would have. with the oncoming megabosses, it's reasonable for players to be able to expect a wide variety of options to take down the end-game fights (that is, without having to rely on gouging strike cheese). though i disagree with some of the comments. i think druid subclasses are fine (though spiritshift probably needs late game help). though non-berserker barbarian subclasses definitely feel like they need help (and as someone who generally plays priests or casters, i hope it weights more when i think a martial class needs help). Edited October 19, 2018 by thelee 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archaven Posted October 20, 2018 Share Posted October 20, 2018 balance is good especially early and mid game. i don't mind late game being slightly overpowered. a complete balance game in single player games are boring obsidian. imagine no one will be posting builds as nothing is good. this on the other hand is different if the game has multiplayer component. ideally, my hope is that player decision (whatever build and multiclass that player decides) should be equally good. but this don't seems to be the case. also i find that many subclasses are really meh. the penalty is far worst than the benefits it's getting. i do hope you can spend time in buffing some builds and not just nerfs whichever popular builds that was posted by community which is your best talent in doing so 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elric Galad Posted October 20, 2018 Share Posted October 20, 2018 The fun part is that people prefer a harder content to weaker characters. It is basically the same but players keep the pretty numbers ^^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndreaColombo Posted October 20, 2018 Share Posted October 20, 2018 ^ I’m like that 100%. I want enemies to be as cool as my character, not my character to suck as much as the enemies XD 1 "Time is not your enemy. Forever is." — Fall-From-Grace, Planescape: Torment "It's the questions we can't answer that teach us the most. They teach us how to think. If you give a man an answer, all he gains is a little fact. But give him a question, and he'll look for his own answers." — Kvothe, The Wise Man's Fears My Deadfire mods: Brilliant Mod | Faster Deadfire | Deadfire Unnerfed | Helwalker Rekke | Permanent Per-Rest Bonuses | PoE Items for Deadfire | No Recyled Icons | Soul Charged Nautilus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boeroer Posted October 20, 2018 Share Posted October 20, 2018 Why settle for one? I want both! Deadfire Community Patch: Nexus Mods Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asnjas Posted October 21, 2018 Share Posted October 21, 2018 Eh i disagree on the potd difficulty issue. Look. Its supposed to be hard and challenge everything you got. Youre supposed to find every little advantage where you can get it. You might as well say yea i want potd to be hard but i still want to play however i want when i want. I want to play at the highest level in the nba but all levels of heights, speeds, endurance, strength etc ought to be possible. Potd is an achievment and a difficulty. Youre suppos3d to figure it out and manage to beat it amirite? The real question is how many classes are really so weak they truly bring down a 5 man team so much that you cannot in anyway beat potd. Theres a difference between gimped and lower in a lower ranking. Also op is much less a concern than up. If rogues are literally invicable and one shot then ok. Thats imbalanced to an extreme but it doesnt prevent you from using you barbarian or druid to accomplish the same goal. How many chars are so bad they literally unplayable? For story through normal i can say none. Potd is different and i covered above. I think people just exaggerate the balance issues so much they force devs to spend man hrs finely tuning classes instead of adding more impactful improvements. So long as the game is beatable hard through story with any class then balance is fine. Can we pls get over this sht and get devs to add boat improvements, new armor skins, new dialouge options, new features? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elric Galad Posted October 21, 2018 Share Posted October 21, 2018 I don't think I exagerate when I say that the only needed balance change is +3 ressources for Martial Single Class (or similar buff). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndreaColombo Posted October 21, 2018 Share Posted October 21, 2018 Can we pls get over this sht and get devs to add boat improvements, new armor skins, new dialouge options, new features? Because all these things are notoriously handled by the same people. 4 "Time is not your enemy. Forever is." — Fall-From-Grace, Planescape: Torment "It's the questions we can't answer that teach us the most. They teach us how to think. If you give a man an answer, all he gains is a little fact. But give him a question, and he'll look for his own answers." — Kvothe, The Wise Man's Fears My Deadfire mods: Brilliant Mod | Faster Deadfire | Deadfire Unnerfed | Helwalker Rekke | Permanent Per-Rest Bonuses | PoE Items for Deadfire | No Recyled Icons | Soul Charged Nautilus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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