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2 minutes ago, Wormerine said:

I will give Larian a pass. 

NWN2 has been one of my fav post IE games RPG. it wasn’t a successor to what NWN was, but it was what I wanted NWN to be. 

BG3 might not be a successor to BG1&2, and it might be what I like the most... but as long as it’s good in what it aims to achieve, and doesn’t mess with the original... what’s the harm?

I guess there's no harm in beating a dead horse, unless you count the time wasted and the body aches you may receive from doing so.  But we are westerners so...to each their own.

'He who seeks to defend everything, defends nothing."

King Frederick the Great of Prussia

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1 minute ago, ComradeMaster said:

I guess there's no harm in beating a dead horse

What if it’s a completely different new horse, you just keep calling it “Roach” because naming is not one of your strong suits?

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7 minutes ago, Wormerine said:

What if it’s a completely different new horse, you just keep calling it “Roach” because naming is not one of your strong suits?

Then you are probably the type of person with a gambling addiction.

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'He who seeks to defend everything, defends nothing."

King Frederick the Great of Prussia

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1 hour ago, Chilloutman said:

sidenote - someone mention they didn't care about environment interactions and I must say those kind of actions is what today CRPgs missing from tabletop experience - I want more weird stuff like that!

 

Yep. Barrelmancy is stupid, but setting traps and obstacles is something that I've had a lot of fun doing. If nothing else, the potential of perpetually forgotten -in CRPGs- D&D non-combat focused skills and spells being put to use in combination with Larian's focus on environmental hazards is interesting.

Edited by 213374U

- When he is best, he is a little worse than a man, and when he is worst, he is little better than a beast.

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Amazing how much my view of Larian's environment system varies between the two DivOSs- first one, yes, nice overall if a bit overpowered/ silly in some cases; second one was either irrelevant or annoying.

But their annoyance to you/ irrelevance to enemies in DivOS2 was largely due to the stupid armour system, which won't be the same in D&D*. So I'd be expecting more of the DivOS1 approach, and thus a net positive from the reactivity.

*Epic gnolls with 25/25/25/25 fire/ acid/ cold/ electricity resistance incoming...

Edited by Zoraptor
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It's been a while, but how much "barrelmancy" (thanks for the lol) was in DA:O?

IIRC, that game was one of the first to really push environmental and spell synthesis. Usually in the form of oil + fire = big AOE fire. I'll be honest I never really gave the Divinity games a chance for the following issues I experiences with DA:O's approach. Seeing as Divinity tried to take this facet and make a whole game out of it.

The problem I always had with barrels and other such things, was that they are never well distributed throughout the game. When they are present, they are usually a huge boon, which leads the encounter design being stacked against you with the understanding you'll use the environment hazard. Or there aren't any hazards, and the encounter is planned accordingly, thus being smaller in scale. The use never feels like a strategic choice, but an obligation that is being put on me by the encounter designer. As such, I almost always hate them.

Position and approach, a la tactics games, is always way more enjoyable than the *wink wink* buffoonery of "barrelmancy." As much as I'd love to be Captain Jack sparrow at all times, it just doesn't really work well when the path forward is laid so obviously before you. The rare hidden "shortcut" often just makes things too easy and thus less enjoyable, then just toughing out an honest win. Why would I click *skip* on perfectly good content? <rhetoric question intensifies>

Now if enemies had ways to abuse the environment against you that you had no way of foreseeing without significant expenditure of investigation checks, then I think I would like it more. Which is why traps never had the aforementioned problem for me. The only problem with traps is that they are rather boring and monotonous to deal with.

Edited by injurai
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Barrels being present in an encounter or not is not a very big deal in DOS2 because a) you can carry as many barrels with you as you want and b) if present, enemies will often have some sort of immunity and/or use them against you -- hence Zoraptor's comment.

More to the point, I think Larian basically gave up on any aspirations of encounters being remotely "balanced". This may go against conventional CRPG design wisdom, but it is refreshing, if nothing else. You can try simply grinding down enemies ‑tough out an honest win- but that's basically what every other game out there expects the player to do. I had a much better time with the game once I understood this and started trying to stack le fromage as much as possible. No shot is too cheap in DOS2, and this also holds true for the AI. I understand that this approach is obviously not going to be everyone's cup of tea, but then what is?

In any case, I doubt BG3 will go that far, using D&D rules and all.

- When he is best, he is a little worse than a man, and when he is worst, he is little better than a beast.

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I suppose I owe it to myself to check out the Divinity games if they go on a deep sale just to see what's up. They never gave a good enough impression to merit a full price purchase from me. As you said, the D&D rules are already doing a lot of work for this game, as it's an immediate improvement on what Larian has done of their devices alone.

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2 hours ago, injurai said:

I suppose I owe it to myself to check out the Divinity games if they go on a deep sale just to see what's up. They never gave a good enough impression to merit a full price purchase from me. As you said, the D&D rules are already doing a lot of work for this game, as it's an immediate improvement on what Larian has done of their devices alone.

Divinity Original Sin 2 is pretty fun, and Chris Avellone worked on it. If you enjoyed his writing in Fallout New Vegas give DOS2 a try.

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2 hours ago, 213374U said:

Barrels being present in an encounter or not is not a very big deal in DOS2 because a) you can carry as many barrels with you as you want and b) if present, enemies will often have some sort of immunity and/or use them against you -- hence Zoraptor's comment.

More to the point, I think Larian basically gave up on any aspirations of encounters being remotely "balanced". This may go against conventional CRPG design wisdom, but it is refreshing, if nothing else. You can try simply grinding down enemies ‑tough out an honest win- but that's basically what every other game out there expects the player to do. I had a much better time with the game once I understood this and started trying to stack le fromage as much as possible. No shot is too cheap in DOS2, and this also holds true for the AI. I understand that this approach is obviously not going to be everyone's cup of tea, but then what is?

In any case, I doubt BG3 will go that far, using D&D rules and all.

Aggression in DnD is always important as is positioning. Whether it be cutting off a person's hand, or picking up a 500 pound boulder as a human monk to throw it at your enemies from a 70 foot high cliff.

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13 hours ago, Wormerine said:

I will give Larian a pass. 

NWN2 has been one of my fav post IE games RPG. it wasn’t a successor to what NWN was, but it was what I wanted NWN to be. 

BG3 might not be a successor to BG1&2, and it might not be what I like the most... but as long as it’s good in what it aims to achieve, and doesn’t mess with the original... what’s the harm?

This is my take on this as well. I will be critical about a lot of stuff, even nitpicking, but I am VERY happy that Larian is making this game in the first place. And since I never really played DOS1 (except for the original like 2h), it will feel really fresh to me, at least. 

*** "The words of someone who feels ever more the ent among saplings when playing CRPGs" ***

 

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I hope a dwarf companion will make it in. I hope they will talk and not be the butt of jokes.

...

Are my expectations too unrealistic?

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5 minutes ago, Skazz said:

I hope a dwarf companion will make it in. I hope they will talk and not be the butt of jokes.

...

Are my expectations too unrealistic?

It's Larian. Expect lots of quirky dialogue.

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1 hour ago, Skazz said:

I hope a dwarf companion will make it in. I hope they will talk and not be the butt of jokes.

DOS2 had a dwarven sub-plot. It wasn't more humorous than any other part of the game. One of the (N)PCs was a dwarf sea captain.

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- When he is best, he is a little worse than a man, and when he is worst, he is little better than a beast.

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18 minutes ago, 213374U said:

DOS2 had a dwarven sub-plot. It wasn't more humorous than any other part of the game. One of the (N)PCs was a dwarf sea captain.

I assume that you're talking about the Beast? Granted, I never got far in the game, but I swear I've read somewhere that he was the only companion without any sub-plot at all?

Did something change, or am I simply wrong here?

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1 hour ago, Skazz said:

I hope a dwarf companion will make it in. I hope they will talk and not be the butt of jokes.

...

Are my expectations too unrealistic?

Yes, for there is a shadowy cabal of CRPG developers working together to ensure we never get a good dwarf companion.

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Just now, JerekKruger said:

Yes, for there is a shadowy cabal of CRPG developers working together to ensure we never get a good dwarf companion.

Obviously, Joshua Eric Sawyer is their president.

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30 minutes ago, Skazz said:

Did something change, or am I simply wrong here?

I suppose it may have been added with the Enhanced Edition, as that's the only version I played. But unlike, for example, Ifan's story which happens more side by side to the main plot, the thing with the dwarves is a thread of the main plot. Beast's own quest ties to that.

- When he is best, he is a little worse than a man, and when he is worst, he is little better than a beast.

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44 minutes ago, JerekKruger said:

Yes, for there is a shadowy cabal of CRPG developers working together to ensure we never get a good dwarf companion.

You shut your mouth, Sagani was cool. A little boring mayhap, but still cool. :getlost:

P.S.: And Khelgar Ironfist was great! 

Edited by bugarup
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1 hour ago, Skazz said:

I assume that you're talking about the Beast? Granted, I never got far in the game, but I swear I've read somewhere that he was the only companion without any sub-plot at all?

Did something change, or am I simply wrong here?

You're mistaken. Beast's quest and plot is from the island prison until you get to Arx (the endgame).

From what we've seen there's a Githyanki, two Humans, a Half-Elf, and an Elf preset so unless they're going to reveal more the anti-Dwarf cabal has struck again.

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"I am the expert, asshat." - Hurlshot

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20 minutes ago, KaineParker said:

You're mistaken. Beast's quest and plot is from the island prison until you get to Arx (the endgame).

What was his plot element on the prison island? Unlike all (?) the other P/NPCs I could only remember his plot starting on the 2nd island, which would have explained how someone who didn't play much would get the impression he had no plot compared to the others.

specifically starting with the black market/ arena or the smugglers' cave, whichever you did first

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