The Political Thread - Machiavelli Edition

[Guard Dog]

 

IIRC Warren put that she was native American on a job or grant application when(forget which)  she was in her 20's. People lie (or embellish) on those things for preferential treatment. Fast forward 40 years later and she's running for Senate and  that application gets dug up. So she is presented with two options:

1. Come clean and admit she lied 40+ years earlier
2. Stick with the lie, no matter how preposterous it is.

She opted for door #2

 

Source on that?

 

https://t.co/LTQ6d1sMwM

 

""In the most exhaustive review undertaken of Elizabeth Warren’s professional history, the Globe found clear evidence, in documents and interviews, that her claim to Native American ethnicity was never considered by the Harvard Law faculty, which voted resoundingly to hire her, or by those who hired her to four prior positions at other law schools. At every step of her remarkable rise in the legal profession, the people responsible for hiring her saw her as a white woman."

 The Boston Globe

 

Source is memory from two years ago. I read a hell of a lot of newspapers and books. I don't remember where every single nugget of info comes from. And I didn't say she benefited from doing it, only that she did it. Supposedly. I also couched that with IIRC. Meaning the gray HDD cell that fact is stored in may have been corrupted by insomnia and booze. 

[ShadySands]

Wasn't the Rand Paul attack just his neighbor who hated him and wasn't it over something dumb like a pile of debris or something

Edited October 15, 2018 by ShadySands

[Guard Dog]

 

please keep you observation on what is data and what is anecdote. The credibility of news sources and content in in the eye of the beholder.

 

 

SUCH POSTMODERN NEO-MARXISM REEEEEEEEEE

 

  OK, hypothetical question. I just posted an article that categorically states Donald Trump accepted a huge back channel bribe from Saudi Arabia to not make a big deal over that reporter. But the article was from Mother Jones. Do you believe it? Or that Hillary Clinton not only ordered the hit on Vince Foster, she actually shot him herself then put the pistol in his dead hand. But the source is The Blaze. Do you believe it?

[Guard Dog]

Wasn't the Rand Paul attack just his neighbor who hated him and wasn't it over something dumb like a pile of debris or something

Sorry, I had that confused with something that happened here in TN. You're right. I corrected it.

[Pidesco]

 

 

please keep you observation on what is data and what is anecdote. The credibility of news sources and content in in the eye of the beholder.

 

 

SUCH POSTMODERN NEO-MARXISM REEEEEEEEEE

 

  OK, hypothetical question. I just posted an article that categorically states Donald Trump accepted a huge back channel bribe from Saudi Arabia to not make a big deal over that reporter. But the article was from Mother Jones. Do you believe it? Or that Hillary Clinton not only ordered the hit on Vince Foster, she actually shot him herself then put the pistol in his dead hand. But the source is The Blaze. Do you believe it?

 

 

The question isn't for me, but regardless of the obviously dubious sources, the first article seems a lot more believable than the second.

 

"What, Saudi Arabia paid the US money to make something go away? Why, how preposterous!" Is a thought that never crossed anyone's mind,

[ShadySands]

I'm genetically predisposed to believing any and all conspiracy theories

 

...or at least that's what they want me to believe

[Guard Dog]

  You see how pernicious bias can be Pidesco? You are already politically predisposed against him politically. Then you see a story like that that is plausible on it's face and mixes a heavy dose of supposition and just enough truth to avoid a libel charge and the target audience accepts it easier because in reinforces and justifies the predisposition. I know people who would as easily accept the other story.

Edited October 15, 2018 by Guard Dog

[ShadySands]

That one is easy not just because of Trump bragging about Saud buying frigates and whatnot but also because we as a country have looked the other way with a lot of stuff concerning them. 

 

PS, what is going on with Trump and Mattis?

[Raithe]

Not sure how relevant this is to most of the folks here,

 

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

PS, what is going on with Trump and Mattis?

Trump's about to drop a diss track after Mattis said Melania had too much plastic surgery.

[Gfted1]

Under the policy, information on voter applications must precisely match information on file with the Georgia Department of Driver Services or the Social Security Administration. Election officials can place non-matching applications on hold.

Those rat bastards!

[ShadySands]

I'm more curious as to how/why so many people have mismatching info

 

I've come across it before with my grandparents but that was because they were really, really old and poor and didn't have things like birth certificates. Just curious to see what the situations are like.

[Elerond]

 

Under the policy, information on voter applications must precisely match information on file with the Georgia Department of Driver Services or the Social Security Administration. Election officials can place non-matching applications on hold.

Those rat bastards!

 

 

It does sound bad, but when you look some of the details it seems bit strange, like if you haven't written you middle name open in one of the forms and you have written it open in another form has caused applications to be put on hold. 

 

I have also read claims that things like writting dual surname without hyphen also has caused application been put on hold.

 

Meaning that it doesn't look like that it is actually meant to secure that people are who they say they are but somesort revenge from database programmer who hates that people aren't pedantic when they write their name

[Gfted1]

Yes, its a pain in the butt, but should it just be handwaved? Official documents should be official.  

 

The Georgia olvr is pretty straight forward. It includes both drivers license and written application and additionally, how to charge and update this information.

 

Do you feel "eh, screw it, its just a technicality"?
 

[aluminiumtrioxid]

 

 

please keep you observation on what is data and what is anecdote. The credibility of news sources and content in in the eye of the beholder.

 

 

SUCH POSTMODERN NEO-MARXISM REEEEEEEEEE

 

  OK, hypothetical question. I just posted an article that categorically states Donald Trump accepted a huge back channel bribe from Saudi Arabia to not make a big deal over that reporter. But the article was from Mother Jones. Do you believe it? Or that Hillary Clinton not only ordered the hit on Vince Foster, she actually shot him herself then put the pistol in his dead hand. But the source is The Blaze. Do you believe it?

 

 

 

My belief or lack thereof is going to be directly proportional to the evidence presented in either case and not be particularly influenced by whatever reputation these publications are supposed to have (which I am not aware of, because the political leanings of niche publications in the USA are tremendously irrelevant to my life).

 

You can't just handwave the question of whether a news story is objectively true or not away with "oh but who cares, people will believe whatever they wanted to believe in the first place". That way lies madness.

[Malcador]

That one is easy not just because of Trump bragging about Saud buying frigates and whatnot but also because we as a country have looked the other way with a lot of stuff concerning them. 

 

PS, what is going on with Trump and Mattis?

 

Nothing really, Trump called him a 'democrat' whatever the hell that means to him.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/14/us/politics/trump-mattis-democrat.html

[Zoraptor]

So who's going to replace Mattis, Rumsfeld or Wolfowicz?

[Gfted1]

We need to coax Colin Powell out of retirement.

[Malcador]

So who's going to replace Mattis, Rumsfeld or Wolfowicz?

Scooter Libby

[Volourn]

"Nazi."

 

O RLY?

 

 

As for Mattis  trying tos ham the First lady, that sure seems unseemly for someone  of his standing.  Rather sad he has to do so.  Must be a Trump-Clinton supporter.

[ShadySands]

Doesn't Powell hate Trump?

 

Also, he said he knows more than Mattis does about NATO. He's not outright attacking him, though calling him a Democrat might be to his base, but he's being weird about him for some reason.

Edited October 15, 2018 by ShadySands

[Guard Dog]

Let's see.... my great, great, great (father's, mother's father's, mother right... something like that...) was black. All other ancestors were white. Therefore, I'm black! Woo hoo! Wait... now I have to worry when I get pulled over??? This sucks!

 

In all seriousness congrats to Elizabeth Warren, she had an NA relative 6-10 generations back. That makes her an Indian I guess. Hey if men can be women and women can be men just because they say they are then she can be an indian too. I'm sure the Mashpee will be happy to let her buy a house on their land in Nantucket. https://www.bostonglobe.com/news/politics/2018/10/15/warren-addresses-native-american-issue/YEUaGzsefB0gPBe2AbmSVO/story.html

 

Besides I feel like Tom Brady today so I'm Tom Brady now. So if y'all will excuse me I'm going home to surprise Gisele. Boy will she be surprised to see me!

Edited October 15, 2018 by Guard Dog

[ShadySands]

The one drop rule means you are black

 

Welcome home

[Amentep]

I'm more curious as to how/why so many people have mismatching info

 

I've come across it before with my grandparents but that was because they were really, really old and poor and didn't have things like birth certificates. Just curious to see what the situations are like.

 

One thing that was pointed out was hyphens.  If your name was printed as Johnson-Smythe on your birth certificate but entered as Johnson Smythe (or vice versa) in the voter database, then you're not an exact match.  Sometimes its a case a person's middle name was placed as the first name because the official entered the name backwards on the birth certificate.  Or as an example of a extreme case, I have a good friend who was named one thing by her parents (a common diminutive) and the hospital put the common full name on the birth certificate against the intent of the parents.  Since no one cared about exact match documents until after 9/11, a lot of people still have valid government issued IDs with the 'wrong' name on it, including mismatches with voter rolls.

 

Also given the lack of hospitals in large parts of Georgia, there was probably a lot more live at home births that were recorded well after the fact, particularly in rural and poor areas which can also lead to miscommunication about names on documents.

[smjjames]

 

I'm more curious as to how/why so many people have mismatching info

 

I've come across it before with my grandparents but that was because they were really, really old and poor and didn't have things like birth certificates. Just curious to see what the situations are like.

 

One thing that was pointed out was hyphens.  If your name was printed as Johnson-Smythe on your birth certificate but entered as Johnson Smythe (or vice versa) in the voter database, then you're not an exact match.  Sometimes its a case a person's middle name was placed as the first name because the official entered the name backwards on the birth certificate.  Or as an example of a extreme case, I have a good friend who was named one thing by her parents (a common diminutive) and the hospital put the common full name on the birth certificate against the intent of the parents.  Since no one cared about exact match documents until after 9/11, a lot of people still have valid government issued IDs with the 'wrong' name on it, including mismatches with voter rolls.

 

Also given the lack of hospitals in large parts of Georgia, there was probably a lot more live at home births that were recorded well after the fact, particularly in rural and poor areas which can also lead to miscommunication about names on documents.

 

 

There very well could be legit reasons for the 53k mismatches, but the thing is that 70% of those on the list are African-American and Georgia is about 30% African-American. Brian Kemp is blaming it on a voter registration drive being messy with the paperwork, but still highlights the ways that Republicans suppress votes or make voting harder.