God Challenges Feedback!

[house2fly]

 

The challenge is that you can't rest after every fight so you need to use your abilities less freely

That would work if I were also prevented from backtracking to an inn.

 

If resting is still possible, just inconvenient, it accomplishes nothing. Not resting remains a choice, as it already is.

I don't want to experience inconvenience, so I would choose not to backtrack to an inn unless I needed to. If other people prefer to experience inconvenience, I don't see why that should affect me.

[AndreaColombo]

I don't want to experience inconvenience, so I would choose not to backtrack to an inn unless I needed to. If other people prefer to experience inconvenience, I don't see why that should affect me.

 

That's exactly the same argument as, "I don't want to rest spam, so I don't. If other people prefer to rest spam, I don't see why that should affect me."

[Branagh]

Maybe Eothas's challenge could be that you only have a limited number of days to "catch up" with him at the various stages of the game. I sometimes felt it was a bit immersion breaking to be able to explore for weeks and months without repercussions.

 

Could such a timer maybe also help improve the attrition / rest spam problem at least a little bit? You would have to earn enough XP before being strong enough to advance to the later stages of the game. This would probably favour "XP dense"  areas of the game over remote islands and disincentivise exploration, however.

[InsaneCommander]

That would work if I were also prevented from backtracking to an inn.

 

If resting is still possible, just inconvenient, it accomplishes nothing. Not resting remains a choice, as it already is.

 

Jus make every dungeon like the very first one in PoE: once you enter, the ceiling collapses and you have to find another exit (that will probably be guarded by the boss).

[Harpagornis]

What about that challenge: Give the AI some kind of - well - AI. You got it?

 

I still cannot believe that in the year 2018 it is not possible to create enemies that act somewhere near the good old Sword Coast Stratagems (which was fan-based). In the Computer-Chess-Scene self-learning programs like Alpha Chess Zero are growing stronger and stronger. So what about an AI that starts playing like an idiot (using abilities randomly) but with each defeat by the player it refreshes its algorithms to optimize tactics, formations, ability/spell usage. If we then create enemies that have access to the complete skills of the player we will sooner or later get unstoppable Master-Mimics. Well - its still allowed to dream. No?

[1TTFFSSE]

What about that challenge: Give the AI some kind of - well - AI. You got it?

 

I still cannot believe that in the year 2018 it is not possible to create enemies that act somewhere near the good old Sword Coast Stratagems (which was fan-based). In the Computer-Chess-Scene self-learning programs like Alpha Chess Zero are growing stronger and stronger. So what about an AI that starts playing like an idiot (using abilities randomly) but with each defeat by the player it refreshes its algorithms to optimize tactics, formations, ability/spell usage. If we then create enemies that have access to the complete skills of the player we will sooner or later get unstoppable Master-Mimics. Well - its still allowed to dream. No?

That is where a.i. is surely headed in future games (self learning) and a.i. in general away from pre-defined behavior tables but I think that will be a whole different development process for the games as in this game the a.i. "learns" from challenging itself a million times to see what sequence of executions is. 

 

But chess is a funny example because with enough computer computation power the ai is better than human....that will also be the case in a game scenario that if you just set your say toon fighter to "fighter ai" he will eventually execute better than by human hand control. 

Edited September 10, 2018 by 1TTFFSSE

[thelee]

Just to pile on some feedback, my thoughts on two of the challenges:

 

Magran's: utterly pointless. I thought PoE was a real-time-with-pause game. What the hell is the point of me backing a real-time-with-pause event and then disabling that feature? All Magrans really does is "challenge" me to put together a lot of complex scripts.

 

Berath's: would be actually worth turning on if the margin for permadeath wasn't so short that it obsoletes like half of the revive effects in the game (hitting particularly hard the ostensible best reviver in the game, the priest). I don't care that some people think it's meaningless without Trial of Iron, I've played with self-imposed "permadeath" before in BG games, and I can do that myself here; so long as the death feels "fair" (and 6s isn't fair when that means I can't even cast a resurrect or revive the fallen if I'm been caught mid-recovery).

 

I second other people saying that the god challenge is not the place to increase PotD difficulty from level 14-20 (and imo Beast of Winter narrows that margin to 16-20; hopefully megabosses take care of that top end a bit). The main game should be improved, the god's challenges are a spot for weirder things.

 

Abydon is closer to what I expect from a god challenge. If Berath's was a bit longer (10 seconds) then I would be happy with it as a god's challenge.

Edited September 10, 2018 by thelee

[thelee]

Also, I second having some sort of restricted rest option. (maybe some debuff that compounds with each rest until you sleep at an inn or resting instead of clearing injuries resets everyone to one special injury per rest e.g. 1st rest sets everyone to one injury, 2nd rest sets everyone to two injuries, etc 4th rest is death; plus maybe you can't use food that costs less than XX cp to rest--it's just sailor fodder).

 

People who feel like leaving a dungeon to go back to an inn to rest and are annoyed by that can just not turn it on. I and the rest of the playerbase who used PoE1's limited rests as an actual constraint (and not just a "time to sit through some load screens" count down) can flip it on.  (The bonfire style/enemy respawn option is a pretty good idea imo that might avoid the "time to head back to an inn" haters.)

Edited September 10, 2018 by thelee

[Kaylon]

There was already an achievement in PoE1 which involved limited resting.  The challenge could involve a limit to the number of rests per level/game or maybe a time limit to finish the game. The consumables can easily be limited by giving vendors finite quantities of ingredients.

[InsaneCommander]

My wish list:

Barath: injuries are permanent

Wael = everyone afflicted by wild mind

Eothas = cannot rest

 

These are really good ideas. Wael's could also cause random perception afflictions at the start of each battles.

[thelee]

 

My wish list:

Barath: injuries are permanent

Wael = everyone afflicted by wild mind

Eothas = cannot rest

 

These are really good ideas. Wael's could also cause random perception afflictions at the start of each battles.

 

 

I dislike the wael+wildmind idea because lore-wise wael is about inscrutability and revelation (which itself is a bit of a paradox, but that's par for the course for wael), not about randomness.

[InsaneCommander]

I dislike the wael+wildmind idea because lore-wise wael is about inscrutability and revelation (which itself is a bit of a paradox, but that's par for the course for wael), not about randomness.

 

Plenty of revelation when people get blinded and start seeing again.

[Alhoon]

Just throwing my two cents here, I think Magran's is absolutely horrible, because it completely removes the most tactical aspect of the gameplay, as many have pointed out. This is coming from someone who mainly plays these games solo, I spend roughly twice as long paused than I do unpaused during combat. I can't even imagine how painful it is for party play. I applaud Obsidian for having the balls to try out something new and completely game changing like this, but personally I dislike it.

[bringingyouthefuture]

Hehe ...

 

Magran's - I don't use the AI at all, so am interested in this challenge as it is opening up my horizons, look forward to playing

 

Berath's - sounds like after reading this forum it is the most challenging for people (meaning good job), and now am interested in playing it - I like the idea of having to embargo players to keep other players alive, and the need to keep the Watcher alive - great job for thinking outside the box.

 

Skaen's - this one I like because it makes the game more realistic, again sounds like a lot of fun

 

Abydon's - peaked my interest the most, again hits on something more realistic, though repairing weapons should have to be done at a smithy, either way I am carrying an axe for barrels

 

I really like the idea of limiting the affect of consumables, limiting empower, somewhat open to the idea of per rest spells, having wounds last a set amount of time say 3 - 5 days versus resetting them on rest, the idea of no resting seems pretty good, constant fog while sailing (though still have access to maps).  Of course always interested in harder encounters too!

 

Edit:  Ondra - aggressive factions ships with beefed up crews that are out to burn your ship on the open seas!!!

Edited September 11, 2018 by aaronghowell

[InsaneCommander]

Skaen's - this one I like because it makes the game more realistic, again sounds like a lot of fun

 

Does anyone know how far is the fog of war? If it is too close it might actually be unrealistic. If it is not, I'll want to play with this every time.

[Piero]

From suggestions i like per-encounter to per-rest, all possitive and negative AoEs affecting both enemies and allies, no inventory, no regeneration after combat, permanent injuries

 

Im with weird stuff and change in mechanics rather than PotD+ or specific types of enemies doped

Edited September 12, 2018 by Piero

[thelee]

 

 

all possitive and negative AoEs affecting both enemies and allies,

 

what the heck would be the point of Confusion affliction then?

[bringingyouthefuture]

 

Skaen's - this one I like because it makes the game more realistic, again sounds like a lot of fun

 

Does anyone know how far is the fog of war? If it is too close it might actually be unrealistic. If it is not, I'll want to play with this every time.

 

 

I checked last night under the description in the game, it mentioned 7m and can be extended with a torch, so pretty narrow but not too crazy.

[InsaneCommander]

 

I checked last night under the description in the game, it mentioned 7m and can be extended with a torch, so pretty narrow but not too crazy.

 

 

That's ok. We just pretend that fog is common in the Deadfire archipelago.

[Hulk'O'Saurus]

I wonder if an Ultimate Solo PoE2 run would include all the challenges?... 

 

Because if it does, it would just be a stat fest for the larger part of the game. Unless there's a challenge where respec is disabled you could just finish almost the entire game without a fight, or, if it is like PoE where it's stipulated that you need to defeat a number of strong foes, only a very small number of specific builds would be able to do it. 

 

I dunno, somehow it doesn't add up in my head.

 

The combinations with Berath's is too punishing in solo overall, imho. The alternative in no Berath is equally... anti-punishing. 

 

I don't think the challenges are very well thought out. I am not talking about difficulty here... just about concept.  

[InsaneCommander]

Because if it does, it would just be a stat fest for the larger part of the game. Unless there's a challenge where respec is disabled you could just finish almost the entire game without a fight, or, if it is like PoE where it's stipulated that you need to defeat a number of strong foes, only a very small number of specific builds would be able to do it.

 

It may be possible.

 

 

The combinations with Berath's is too punishing in solo overall, imho. The alternative in no Berath is equally... anti-punishing.

 

Magran's would be worse, unless the appropriate works fine with the AI system. But then, what would be the point?

[Purudaya]

I like the challenges so far. What I'd really like is the option to turn challenges on in every difficulty. I want to create my own game balance, and these challenges would be perfect for that.

 

This. Also, I know it lessens the "achievement" aspect but I'd like to be able to play the god challenges with mods enabled. I'm starting to get the feeling that players will ultimately have to address certain balance issues themselves, so it would be nice if we could combine certain challenges with player-made content in order to create a fun experience on our terms.

[Bronsteijn]

The effect of Abydon Challenge needs to be clearer, like an icon showing you on your character that your item is at it's last damage threshold and maybe you should swap weapons and not gamble with it.

 

Or some kind of combat log that is easy to notice, the current one gets easily lost and with long fights I keep turning weapons into dust.

 

I wonder now if I have the Monastic Unarmed Training and a weapon broken beyond repairs I get the passive bonus. Your character does the unarmed attack animation...

[hilfazer]

 

Magran's - I don't use the AI at all, so am interested in this challenge as it is opening up my horizons, look forward to playing

 

Finally someone not hating Magran's challenge!

[Hulk'O'Saurus]

Skaen's philosophy is - 'In a dark cave you'll sneak better while holding a flaming torch in hand.' 

 

Heh.