Pathfinder Kingmaker is bigger then Deadfire

[Fenixp]

What? Enemy strengths and weaknesses had to be completely transparent in PnP? Which universe is this?

 

They did not, and do not, have to be transparent in any way whatsoever. For the record, I still happen to play D&D (3.5, the best one in my view) approximately twice a month, and stuff like that is not transparent, nor would we players want it to be.

Well it is ages since I played, but don't you get to write down monster statistics after trying different approaches on them the first time around? (which is precisely what Pillars does - it'll just print a question mark on defenses when you encounter something unknown)

 

And since I assume combat log which prints all rolls is a thing that exists in Kingmaker (would be pretty crappy if it weren't), not showing known defenses on attacks that you could get obnoxiously by calculating known values is a pretty crappy UI design.

Edited October 7, 2018 by Fenixp

[Volourn]

"If party encounters a Goblin for the first time, the party knows only this:"

 

FAKE NEWS thanks to giving a poor example. Goblins are so common that most people would know what they are instantly. LMAO

 

 

"If we're talking PnP, enemy weaknesses and strengths always had to be completely transparent as you were doing the maths yourself, and the 'figuring out' bit was dictated by being clever, not by purposefully obscuring rules. If me and my DM did a roll which a monster would fail and then the DM would proclaim "A-HA! But the monster has a hidden power!" I'd smack him and you would too."

 

FAKE NEWS.

 

Also, you show yourself to be a violent psychopath for slapping someone over  not getting enough info about a DnD monster. LMAO

[Fenixp]

Also, you show yourself to be a violent psychopath for slapping someone over  not getting enough info about a DnD monster. LMAO

FAKE NEWS

 

I'm actually a violent sociopath.

[IndiraLightfoot]

 

 

Unless I have a reason to know about a critter's defenses, strengths and weaknesses, I don't want to know about them.

Well that's why PoE also gives you an option to disable that information, which I feel is fair enough. If we're talking PnP, enemy weaknesses and strengths always had to be completely transparent as you were doing the maths yourself, and the 'figuring out' bit was dictated by being clever, not by purposefully obscuring rules. If me and my DM did a roll which a monster would fail and then the DM would proclaim "A-HA! But the monster has a hidden power!" I'd smack him and you would too.

 

What? Enemy strengths and weaknesses had to be completely transparent in PnP? Which universe is this?

 

They did not, and do not, have to be transparent in any way whatsoever. For the record, I still happen to play D&D (3.5, the best one in my view) approximately twice a month, and stuff like that is not transparent, nor would we players want it to be.

 

If we come across something previously unknown, we may make Knowledge checks, provided we have the skills (in our group, this would nearly always be either the priest or the wizard), and if we're successful, we may know something about the creature before anything happens. If things do happen and we end up fighting, we may make observations about what happens, what seems to work and what does not. But no, definitely no transparency. I'm really surprised about your comment, it just doesn't make sense to my way of playing.

 

(As experienced players, we do have the problem of meta-knowledge, i.e. we often know more than is realistic for our characters to know. There is no clear-cut way out of this, but we do the best we can.)

 

Exactly. As a player, I really appreciate when goblins, orcs and kobolds get to be varied stats-wise, item-wise and strategy-wise. The PnP rules have always encouraged this, so it only makes sense that CRPGs should do this as well.

[Mamoulian War]

"If party encounters a Goblin for the first time, the party knows only this:"

 

FAKE NEWS thanks to giving a poor example. Goblins are so common that most people would know what they are instantly. LMAO

 

 

And that is exactly the reason, why in Pathfinder players need to roll only 6 on their Knowledge (local) check

 

Most of the first level characters, who spent 1 point into this skill, have minimum score of 4, and only if their INT is less than 12

[Chilloutman]

anyone know where is Technic League hideout? or is it same as TL encampment? if so i am screwed, i can get into it for that Octavia and Ronogar quest

[Yria]

anyone know where is Technic League hideout? or is it same as TL encampment? if so i am screwed, i can get into it for that Octavia and Ronogar quest

 

It's a different location faaaar in the east, somewhere in the mountains near Varnhold. 

[Gromnir]

 

Otherwise my 18 Cha 10 Wis Feyspeaker wouldn't have been able to cast spells above level 0.  

 

le sigh.

 

harrim, with a 10 charisma, were able to level-up and gain new spells pre 1.06.  so apply your reasoning to pre 1.06 harrim and to what conclusion does you arrive? wisdom were indicated in level-up as the prime attribute o' a fey speaker, and a 10 charisma feyspeaker harrim aquired druid spells o' level two and three and beyond. am not saying charisma were useless to a feyspeaker pre-patch, but at the very least, pre-patch, wisdom were also effective for a feyspeaker... and as the actual in-game level-up indicated wisdom as the prime attribute...

 

a viable build concept, a build concept supported by in-game description, were rendered largely impotent by a patch.  kiss +12 hours o' gaming goodbye.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[IndiraLightfoot]

Since P:KM players can lose entire playthroughs because of poor kingdom management, I'm quoting these pieces of kingdom manager advice, courtesy of w0lv3en:

"My suggested tips and strategies are:


0) Every 20 points in a single kingdom's stat, you gain a project to support that advisor's endeavor. You basically level up his/her advisor skills and it nets you a better bonus to his/her dice rolls. You should do it whenever you can.

1) Do every single main quest as soon as it pops up. This is especially important in the case of bald hills questline. This is mainly for two reasons, one of which i am explaining now and the other one will be explained later. The first reason is that, doing the main quests (such as the trolls questline) as soon as they come, you prevent bad events from piling up in your events queue. In this playtrough i addressed the trolls matter super early, and therefore the only event i got about them was ''trolls sightings'', which had a low DC and so i managed to get it right. If you wait too much, on the other hand, you will start getting a lot of ''troll strikes'' events, which you will eventually end up not being able to address because they will outnumber your advisors. This will lead to defeat soon enough. I also noticed that, doing this particular questline early, you prevent Bartholomew Delgado to bug out, and will then be able to recruit him as advisor later on. Also, doing the main quests early, get you a lot of spare time before the next one begins in which you can address the unrest issue you may have without having too much pressure put on you, you can also build buildings, reclaim regions and explore without bad♥♥♥♥♥♥happening.

2) Get a treasurer as soon as possible (which means, as soon as the trolls questline begins, head immediately to the west of your capital and get the gnome companion). I have noticed that having low BP or low BP income contributes to the increasing of unrest. Conversely, having a good amount of BP in your cash and a good income, contributes to keep it low. NEVER SPEND ALL YOUR BPS! If your funds go to 0 or under 0, unrest will rise quickly! If that happens, rush to the vendor and buy BPs as soon as possible! Generally, is good to do all the events and the projects that improve your economy as soon as you can afford them.....the treasurer should, theoretically, be the highest leveled advisor you own.

3) All kingdom's statistics contribute to unrest. Consider the combination of all stats as the general well being of your populace: the bigger the statistic's amount, the merrier your folks are. All of them contribute in the same manner (so don't just improve stability ignoring all others....it won't work). That said, stability is one of the hardest stats to push up, because you obtain its advisor pretty late, so you need to get your military up as soon as possible to get the warden very fast. This way, you will be able to efficiently farm your stability on low DC events. Yes, the more time goes by, the harder the events become, so you generally need to up your advisors as soon as possible, before you get too much further in the game.

4) Unrest. The most scariest thing in the game. It can ♥♥♥♥ up 30+ hours of gameplay in a matter of minutes. It has to be constantly kept under control: the more unrest you have, the bigger penalty your advisors' dice rolls will have. As far as i know, it's -1 for worried, -2 for troubled, -3 for riots and -4 for crumbling. If you spend too much time in the crumbling state, you will be defeated. The good news is that there are some projects that, upon completion, reduce the unrest. Those are, as far as i know, ''feast for the afflicted'' and ''address the barony''. The first one costs 1000BP and never fails (as far as i know), the other one is free of charge but it is subject to the unrest dice roll's penalty. Thus, my suggestion is to just ignore the expensive one, unless you're close to be defeated (DO NOT wait until you get crumbling, you should do this at the ''riots'' stage) and do the other one as soon as you are getting anything different from ''stable'' or ''worried'' (i think a -1 penalty is acceptable, and completely manageable....but that's really up to you).

5) The other reason for doing main quests early is that you can then upgrade your advisors in a quicker manner, because as i said above, you will get a LOT less problematic events, and so you can skip 14 days without too much troubles. This will help you a great deal later on, as i stated above. Moreover, you can focus a bit more on opportunity events which, yes, they contribute to improve unrest as well.

6) Upgrading towns and building new stuff is a good thing as well...as soon as you fulfill the requirements and have enough spare BP, upgrade the villagess/towns, so you can further improve your kingdom's stats by building new buildings and upgrading existing ones.

7) Being successful in events contribute to improve your unrest as well, but improving unrest is a process that REQUIRE TIME, it's not an instant improvement, so DO NOT wait until you are ''crumbling'' to address this issue, or you will fail.

8 ) At least at the beginning, BUILD A BULLETIN POST IN EVERY TOWN. It improves your bonus to solve problems in that region. The bulletin post is only available to lawful alignement barons, though.

9) Be sure to be at the capital the first week of each month. That's the period of time when you receive visits and major stuff happens. Also, it's always better to upgrade your advisors the first 14 days of the month, and not the last one, or you risk skipping out on important events, quests or companion's quests. 

10) Do NOT abuse rest. This game is not nwn, it takes a lot of time to rest and you need all the time you can save to manage your kingdom efficiently. Rest only if you run out of healing spells and potions, and even then, if you can, don't hunt but use rations....It will make you save some time.

11) You just CAN'T get your kingdom to stable until after the ''season of bloom'' quest. Don't even try. Your goal, until you complete that quest (which you should do ASAP, for the reasons listed above) is to survive. Only then you can start building your kingdom to improve it. This has been tested by me and it worked."

Edited October 7, 2018 by IndiraLightfoot

[majestic]

And since I assume combat log which prints all rolls is a thing that exists in Kingmaker (would be pretty crappy if it weren't), not showing known defenses on attacks that you could get obnoxiously by calculating known values is a pretty crappy UI design.

 

The combat log breaks everything down, telling you what sort of equipment, feats, skills, buffs or whatever else is affecting the rolls. It's very detailed, just annoying to access. Looking through the combat log really helps when trying to figure out why encounters are going south and what you can (if at all) do about it. The presentation could be better though.

 

One thing it doesn't show are perception check rolls you do in the wild to spot secrets.

 

So the information is already there. Making easier to see would be appreciated. It's not a sign of decline to bundle all available and useful information into a readily accessible overview.

[IndiraLightfoot]

And two stealth hotfixes today:

There have actually been two patches today.

The inital fix to the 1.0.5 hotfix, which stopped further accumulation of stat boosts -- but eliminated all sound on Windows machines by moving the sound files to the correct location for Mac / Linux builds. Then another patch was released that moved all the files back to the correct location. That's where everything stands right now.

But there where be another fix for the fix for the fix for the 1.0.5 hotfix sometime later today that will also undo any accumulated stat bonuses, which will finally and truly fix the issue that the 1.0.5 hotfix caused.

 

An update to the hotfix 1.0.6 will go live soon. This particular one fixes the "endlessly stacking non-specific item bonuses" problem. Bonuses should stop stacking, although your characters stats, if already affected by this bug, won't return to their normal values right now.
Next update will arrive today (right now, unfortunately, I can not give more accurate estimates). That one will return affected character's stats to their normal values.

[Manveru123]

 As for classes being useless, while you might not suddenly get a useless class in Kingmaker, I'm going to bet it's pretty easy to make a crap one from the outset if you don't know what you're doing xD 

 

 

Can't argue with that, you really need to know what you're doing during character creation. Fortunately, there are plenty of guides around, but I feel bad for more casual players who don't look things up.

[Vitalis]

 

 

Otherwise my 18 Cha 10 Wis Feyspeaker wouldn't have been able to cast spells above level 0.

 

le sigh.

 

harrim, with a 10 charisma, were able to level-up and gain new spells pre 1.06. so apply your reasoning to pre 1.06 harrim and to what conclusion does you arrive? wisdom were indicated in level-up as the prime attribute o' a fey speaker, and a 10 charisma feyspeaker harrim aquired druid spells o' level two and three and beyond. am not saying charisma were useless to a feyspeaker pre-patch, but at the very least, pre-patch, wisdom were also effective for a feyspeaker... and as the actual in-game level-up indicated wisdom as the prime attribute...

 

a viable build concept, a build concept supported by in-game description, were rendered largely impotent by a patch. kiss +12 hours o' gaming goodbye.

 

HA! Good Fun!

Because it was a bug.

[Gromnir]

 

 

Otherwise my 18 Cha 10 Wis Feyspeaker wouldn't have been able to cast spells above level 0.

le sigh.

 

harrim, with a 10 charisma, were able to level-up and gain new spells pre 1.06. so apply your reasoning to pre 1.06 harrim and to what conclusion does you arrive? wisdom were indicated in level-up as the prime attribute o' a fey speaker, and a 10 charisma feyspeaker harrim aquired druid spells o' level two and three and beyond. am not saying charisma were useless to a feyspeaker pre-patch, but at the very least, pre-patch, wisdom were also effective for a feyspeaker... and as the actual in-game level-up indicated wisdom as the prime attribute...

 

a viable build concept, a build concept supported by in-game description, were rendered largely impotent by a patch. kiss +12 hours o' gaming goodbye.

 

HA! Good Fun!

Because it was a bug.

 

so?  in-game description o' class indicated wisdom as prime attribute.  spell memorizations and dcs behaved as if wisdom were the prime attribute.  bug or not, there has been numerous changes by the developers which has led to various builds performing significantly different post patch, though perhaps no more dramatic than feyspeaker. 

 

it is predictable there will be bugs and and changes which invalidate player choices in a game such as kingmaker. predictable developer fails is the reason why respec should be a feature o' all these kinda games.  goes w/o saying, players should not need pay for developer errors.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[ShadySands]

I actually just lost because my kingdom was destroyed. The events just kept coming too fast for me to deal with them and towards the end I had like 6 of the same event so I kept falling deeper into the hole. It wasn't fun but I'm not too upset because I was getting some weird bugs that I was playing through but I definitely like NWN2 kingdom management more at this point.

 

PS I can confirm that editing your companions to have decent stats won't disable achievements

Edited October 7, 2018 by ShadySands

[majestic]

I actually just lost because my kingdom was destroyed. The events just kept coming too fast for me to deal with them and towards the end I had like 6 of the same event so I kept falling deeper into the hole.

 

The main quests have soft time limits. If you don't do them fast enough they will destroy your kingdom by spamming events until you can't handle them any more. Not to mention that they actively change the longer you need - and not for the better.

 

In other words, do you questing, exploring and kingdom building in the lulls between.

[ShadySands]

I was working on the main quest but obviously not fast enough and I didn't figure out how to game the system before it became too late. Being a caster and needing to rest often probably didn't help me either especially since I like to actually use my spells in combat and not just save them up.

 

I was poking around the files to see if I could make some simple mods and I swear OwlCat took the Enigmatic Engineering perk from Stellaris 

 

Will try again in a few more patches

[Manveru123]

I just put Kingdom on Auto and enjoy everything else

[Gfted1]

Is there really an "automanage kingdom" option? Just reading those tips makes it look like a real pita to me.

[IndiraLightfoot]

Is there really an "automanage kingdom" option? Just reading those tips makes it look like a real pita to me.

There is one, but your kingdom can still get destroyed from using it! However, in a recent patch, they made a toggle that makes your kingdom indestructible.

[SonicMage117]

"I am kinda perplexed as to how this game is succeeding where pillars 2 did not so much (okay so we dont have official sales figures, but at least on steam pathfinder looks to be doing better than PoE 2 did). I mean, they are both appealing to a similar audience. Pillars 2 was critically acclaimed upon release, yet pathfinder had next to no reviews when released, so customers didnt have anything to go off of before purchasing the game. Maybe opinions of people who played the beta? The reviews i've seen for pathdfinder are not glowing either. Initial user reviews also seemed worse for pathfinder, citing bugs and balancing issues.

 

Perhaps it has nothing to do with being the first Pathfinder-based game. Look at ot this way, Crpg genre is still so niche, more than we care to admit it.

 

There's really only one plausible explanation for Pathfinder remaining on the top sales.... Look at what else has come out around it, AC: Odyssey, which is above it because it just came out. Monster Hunter World which has been out for a lomg time but has a small discount, and such.

 

Point being nothing big released on Steam except for one game, whilist when PoE1 and Deadfire both released, there were majy other things which stomped them. Looking at those small facts is enough to conclude the reason. If it had released late October or November, it wouldn't even make the top sellers because of big releases (excluding the big sale).

 

I highly doubt though, that we'd ever see a Crpg released as #1 on Steam's top sellers. Even a f2p with some p2w package will outsell it. Right below Pathfinder in the top sellers in MapleStory 2 which is a f2p game (that's how I can say this). So sales may not be as successful as Top Sellers assumes us to believe.

Edited October 7, 2018 by SonicMage117

[IndiraLightfoot]

@SonicMage117 One exception, though: If a huge game named "Baldur's Gate 3" gets released, watch that #1 spot getting occupied by it with a vengeance.

[SonicMage117]

@SonicMage117 One exception, though: If a huge game named "Baldur's Gate 3" gets released, watch that #1 spot getting occupied by it with a vengeance.

BG3 vs CP2077 would be the ultimate match-up!! That would be so exciting to see if they released on Steam on the same exact day lol

[Vitalis]

 

 

 

Otherwise my 18 Cha 10 Wis Feyspeaker wouldn't have been able to cast spells above level 0.

le sigh.

 

harrim, with a 10 charisma, were able to level-up and gain new spells pre 1.06. so apply your reasoning to pre 1.06 harrim and to what conclusion does you arrive? wisdom were indicated in level-up as the prime attribute o' a fey speaker, and a 10 charisma feyspeaker harrim aquired druid spells o' level two and three and beyond. am not saying charisma were useless to a feyspeaker pre-patch, but at the very least, pre-patch, wisdom were also effective for a feyspeaker... and as the actual in-game level-up indicated wisdom as the prime attribute...

 

a viable build concept, a build concept supported by in-game description, were rendered largely impotent by a patch. kiss +12 hours o' gaming goodbye.

 

HA! Good Fun!

Because it was a bug.

so? in-game description o' class indicated wisdom as prime attribute. spell memorizations and dcs behaved as if wisdom were the prime attribute. bug or not, there has been numerous changes by the developers which has led to various builds performing significantly different post patch, though perhaps no more dramatic than feyspeaker.

 

it is predictable there will be bugs and and changes which invalidate player choices in a game such as kingmaker. predictable developer fails is the reason why respec should be a feature o' all these kinda games. goes w/o saying, players should not need pay for developer errors.

 

HA! Good Fun!

Yes, and in the tabletop Feyspeaker uses Charisma. It's not as if they decided to change it because of balance forcing you to restart because you lose a talent point due to a big when you respec for months on end...

 

https://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/druid/archetypes/paizo-druid-archetypes/feyspeaker-druid-archetype/

 

@SonicMage117 One exception, though: If a huge game named "Baldur's Gate 3" gets released, watch that #1 spot getting occupied by it with a vengeance.

Please, we all know BG3 is going to be hated even more than The Last Jedi.

Edited October 7, 2018 by Vitalis

[Manveru123]

 

Is there really an "automanage kingdom" option? Just reading those tips makes it look like a real pita to me.

There is one, but your kingdom can still get destroyed from using it! However, in a recent patch, they made a toggle that makes your kingdom indestructible.

 

What? The whole point of Auto is that it makes it impossible for you to lose your Kingdom. I think it even says so in the description of this mode. Indestructible was added for people who want to manage the Kingdom but don't want to lose because they're bad at it