Finally some sales evidence

[injurai]

What looks to be a more interesting conversation than premature sales ruminations. I don't blame them.

[Tick]

I have a hard time not drifting into tangents lol

[kanisatha]

Well, regardless, we are in for changes in scenery soon anyways since the Project Indiana game is very likely to be post-apocalyptic/sci-fi (Obsidian's own Fallout-inspired franchise?), followed by whatever game Sawyer works on next which will definitely not be fantasy per his own expressed preference.

[Mygaffer]

Fig shares went out. Very low. Confirms that the sales were significantly lower then for Pillars.

[thelee]

Fig shares went out. Very low. Confirms that the sales were significantly lower then for Pillars.

 

i recently posted a guide on gamefaqs, and i tend to get some anecdotal evidence on how much support a game has (i have many guides up for different games) based on average hits/day. and it doesn't look great for deadfire; even allowing for the relative newness of the guide, it's half as many hits as poe1, a game that is many years older.

 

sad panda face.

Edited November 7, 2018 by thelee

[xzar_monty]

Hmm. So if the drop is as drastic as that, it would seem to imply that there were tons of people disappointed with PoE1, and they didn't come back. Or at least that's one of the big reasons, I would guess.

[thelee]

Hmm. So if the drop is as drastic as that, it would seem to imply that there were tons of people disappointed with PoE1, and they didn't come back. Or at least that's one of the big reasons, I would guess.

 

tyranny did miserably (my own guide hits/day confirms this). there was some commentary from a dev somewhere that probably there's not too big of a gaming population that wants a IE-style real-time with pause game. PoE1 got lucky because it was one of the first few out the door, but then there have been lots of games and competitors since then.

 

it's a shame, because i think deadfire is overall a far superior game to poe1.

Edited November 7, 2018 by thelee

[Boeroer]

Then the crowdfunding campain of Deadfire would have been a lot worse. It wasn't as good as PoE's (judging by numbers), but in terms of money it did equally well.

But that decline in numbers seems to be in line with most other sequels. 

 

A crowdfunded project has the big advantage that the biggest part of "sales" already happened before you (really) start with the development. And also that you can get a lot of money for something that doesn't cost a lot - like beta access or naming(!) a pet for 500$ or being a top-backer for 10000$ (which got claimed 1 time).

 

So I guess you can't generally say that such a game (that doesn't sell that many more copies than the compain covered) is a financial flop - but of course it would be better for fans (who hope for a third part) and the company alike if it did sell more copies.

 

I personally think the whole "Pirates of the Carribean" vibe repelled people who like the classic fantasy CRPG setting - while it couldn't attract that many new players who might be interested in such things.

 

But the good thing about crowdfunding is that you get your market survey and sales all in one and can decide how big your game should be. Maybe the fanbase for such isometric RPGs isn't that big - but then you can just make smaller games, right? I'd prefer smaller isometric CRPGs over no isometric CRPGs anytime.

Edited November 7, 2018 by Boeroer

[thelee]

Then the crowdfunding campain of Deadfire would have been a lot worse. It wasn't as good as PoE's (judging by numbers), but in terms of money it did equally well.

But that decline in numbers seems to be in line with most other sequels.

 

A crowdfunded project has the big advantage that the biggest part of "sales" already happened before you (really) start with the development. And also that you can get a lot of money for something that doesn't cost a lot - like beta access or naming(!) a pet for 500$ or being a top-backer for 10000$ (which got claimed 1 time).

 

So I guess you can't generally say that such a game (that doesn't sell that many more copies than the compain covered) is a financial flop - but of course it would be better for fans (who hope for a third part) and the company alike if it did sell more copies.

 

I personally think the whole "Pirates of the Carribean" vibe repelled people who like the classic fantasy CRPG setting - while it couldn't attract that many new players who might be interested in such things.

 

But the good thing about crowdfunding is that you get your market survey and sales all in one and can decide how big your game should be. Maybe the fanbase for such isometric RPGs isn't that big - but then you can just make smaller games, right? I'd prefer smaller isometric CRPGs over no isometric CRPGs anytime.

I think it's important to remember that like half the money raised on fig was not as a backer but as a purchaser of equity share, essentially a bond investor. That seems like more of a speculative thing than wanting to back a game you actually want to play (though just my sense). Importantly, the devs have to pay out to fig investors, so unlike cheap backer rewards it's actually a liability (albeit one with very little priority, unlike a bank loan). Edited November 7, 2018 by thelee

[thelee]

But anyway, if they keep making RTwP games (my hope) I hope this just means that they'll keep relying on crowdfunding and just scaling appropriately instead of abandoning the game genre.

[xzar_monty]

 

Hmm. So if the drop is as drastic as that, it would seem to imply that there were tons of people disappointed with PoE1, and they didn't come back. Or at least that's one of the big reasons, I would guess.

 

tyranny did miserably (my own guide hits/day confirms this). there was some commentary from a dev somewhere that probably there's not too big of a gaming population that wants a IE-style real-time with pause game. PoE1 got lucky because it was one of the first few out the door, but then there have been lots of games and competitors since then.

 

 

Fair point, yes.

 

Just out of curiosity, what have been the competitors? I mean, in the fantasy genre I can't really think that there have been "lots", as you say, but I'll be the first to admit that I am not perfectly informed.

[Archaven]

But anyway, if they keep making RTwP games (my hope) I hope this just means that they'll keep relying on crowdfunding and just scaling appropriately instead of abandoning the game genre.

I don't understand the popularity of turn based. I'm more in favour of RTwP. Sadly the market is really niche.

[Night Stalker]

 

 

Hmm. So if the drop is as drastic as that, it would seem to imply that there were tons of people disappointed with PoE1, and they didn't come back. Or at least that's one of the big reasons, I would guess.

 

tyranny did miserably (my own guide hits/day confirms this). there was some commentary from a dev somewhere that probably there's not too big of a gaming population that wants a IE-style real-time with pause game. PoE1 got lucky because it was one of the first few out the door, but then there have been lots of games and competitors since then.

 

 

Fair point, yes.

 

Just out of curiosity, what have been the competitors? I mean, in the fantasy genre I can't really think that there have been "lots", as you say, but I'll be the first to admit that I am not perfectly informed.

 

 

Well, there is Divinity Original Sin 1 & 2 (2 is still selling like hotcakes the last time I looked), and recently there is Pathfinder: Kingmaker.

 

DOS1&2 seem to be more accessible, liked for their graphics humor, interactivity, supports co-op, and is highly praised for the turn-based combat. Pathfinder: Kingmaker is based on Pathfinder (built-in current fanbase), and is based on a pre-existing, and as far as I can tell, well liked module.

 

While I am saddend by Deadfire doing so poorly, I am especially bothered when people dismiss it out of hand for having exchanged the usual pseudo-European setting for a tropical one with topics such as colonialism as a gimmick - I feel it speaks to a deep conservatism and narrow comfort zone for many RPG players.

Edited November 7, 2018 by Night Stalker

[mydnightscrivener]

So sad. Tyranny and Deadfire are awesome 

[juanval]

I don't think PoE2 has been a failure. There are people waiting to buy this game when the final version is released.

 

A crowdfunding campaign for PoE 3 is not a risky project. Furthermore, Obsidian has important factors (engine, a solid setting, combat rules, etc) done and ready for developing a new sequel in the future. I'm sure that developing PoE3 is less than a half complex and expensive than PoE1.

 

It would be a pity not to visit new regions of Eora, enjoying the view of the beautiful areas that devs create

Edited November 7, 2018 by juanval

[xzar_monty]

 

 

 

Hmm. So if the drop is as drastic as that, it would seem to imply that there were tons of people disappointed with PoE1, and they didn't come back. Or at least that's one of the big reasons, I would guess.

 

tyranny did miserably (my own guide hits/day confirms this). there was some commentary from a dev somewhere that probably there's not too big of a gaming population that wants a IE-style real-time with pause game. PoE1 got lucky because it was one of the first few out the door, but then there have been lots of games and competitors since then.

 

 

Fair point, yes.

 

Just out of curiosity, what have been the competitors? I mean, in the fantasy genre I can't really think that there have been "lots", as you say, but I'll be the first to admit that I am not perfectly informed.

 

 

While I am saddend by Deadfire doing so poorly, I am especially bothered when people dismiss it out of hand for having exchanged the usual pseudo-European setting for a tropical one with topics such as colonialism as a gimmick - I feel it speaks to a deep conservatism and narrow comfort zone for many RPG players.

 

 

Do you remember the furore after Siege of Dragonspear? There is no question that it contained dodgy writing, but the outbreak sadly and incontrovertibly underlined what you just described, i.e. a deep conservatism and narrow comfort zone. Paradoxically, given what these games are ostensibly about, there is apparently a large segment of players with no sense of adventure.

[aksrasjel]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Siege of Dragonspear tank spectacularly? Specifically due to the beforementioned dodgy writing, as well as other controversies, plus narrative lead being a bit... too antagonistic towards the fanbase?

Making an expansion to a beloved game, 15 years later, on an old engine was in hindsight a very risky move by Beamdog that didn't pay off. To the point it pretty much buried Beamdog's hopes of ever making BG3.

 

As for Deadfire itself, it is sad that the game underselled, but I'm not surprised. The marketing for the game was non-existant and the franchise still isn't strong enough to sustain itself by the name alone.

From my perspective - and that's only my perspective - the game didn't have a good "hook" to make people interested in it. It maybe wasn't conventional enough for the traditional crowd and at the same time wasn't "weird" enough for the people who liked PS:T.

My biggest issue with the game is the underdeveloped story and weak, uninteresting companions - this is what made me completely lose interest in the game. Maybe this fact also had some impact on the game selling poorly.

But again, that's just me.

[xzar_monty]

I have no idea how Siege of Dragonspear did in the market. I found it quite ok. I wouldn't be interested in BG3, as the story is already over.

[house2fly]

I don't think PoE2 has been a failure. There are people waiting to buy this game when the final version is released.

 

 

I really don't think there are. I know there are people who say that, but we live in an era of such total media saturation that if someone sees a game and doesn't want to buy it right then and there then chances are they'll forget about it. There are plenty of games in every genre for people to play, this isn't the 90s. It isn't even 2015

[xzar_monty]

 

I don't think PoE2 has been a failure. There are people waiting to buy this game when the final version is released.

 

I really don't think there are. I know there are people who say that, but we live in an era of such total media saturation that if someone sees a game and doesn't want to buy it right then and there then chances are they'll forget about it. There are plenty of games in every genre for people to play, this isn't the 90s. It isn't even 2015

 

 

No, there are not. After Baldur's Gate II, there was nothing for me in the genre until PoE (the first Neverwinter Nights sort of counts, though, although it was forgettable in the end). Now there's Deadfire and Pathfinder: Kingmaker, and that's it.

 

By and large, though, you are probably correct, and I understand that I am almost certainly in a tiny minority.

[injurai]

I have friends that enjoy RPGs, that have recently gotten really into DnD, who knew I praised Pillars 1, who watched Critical Role, who saw their CR idols praise and embrace Deadfire, and... display no real interest in Pillars at all.

 

Maybe Obs could crowdfund a third game, but final unit sales are also important. If those are dwindling I'm not sure the Eora IP's future is in crpgs... sadly enough. I do want one more entry at the very least...

 

I think Pillars would fare far better if it had a stronger social component. Maybe build a whole PnP scenario tool/builder extension on the game similar to what Divinity:OS2 did.

[dukeisaac]

Sad to hear that Deadfire didn't sell that well. I'm a big fan of the series...

 

That being said, I think a third instalment of the series would still be a good idea, even if it is a narrower game.

 

I just hope they focus on the narrative components of the game, as they are lacking in Deadfire (except for the DLC).

 

Maybe a newer, younger team can fare better in that sense ?

Edited November 7, 2018 by dukeisaac

[thelee]

I would venture to say that if we see a PoE3, it would have to leverage a bunch of Deadfire's infrastructure to lower its costs (not necessarily a bad thing. Fallout 2/NV and BG2 were great games that slightly tweaked the existing stuff. But it would lower the sales ceiling because mainstream gamers want the latest and best tech). If MSFT takeover rumors are true they might be able to get a lot of funding for a big game but I anticipate a lot of compromises to reach a broader market, which I personally would not be wild about if it means messing with the core gameplay.

 

There is something to be said about people waiting to buy Deadfire, because anecdotally I know a few people who got PoE1 after Deadfire came out, and my own PoE1 guide saw upticks post Deadfire. But I don't think this is a significant sales component. Anecdotally, PoE1 sucked up a lot of space in my gaming social sphere, whereas only a couple people other than myself have actually picked up Deadfire. Maybe the nostalgia factor for IE games has worn off.

Edited November 7, 2018 by thelee

[Mallard]

One unfortunate historical parallel:

 

My understanding was that the Baldur's Gate series was planned as a trilogy, with Throne of Bhaal a third full game. Due to time, they were forced to compress it into an expansion.

 

Hopefully Obsidian gets a chance to complete the Pillars trilogy, I fully support retaining the engine & mechanics.

 

I think we can all agree that the next game should *NOT* be titled "Pillars Mobile".

Edited November 7, 2018 by glennjones130486

[thelee]

One unfortunate historical parallel:

 

My understanding was that the Baldur's Gate series was planned as a trilogy, with Throne of Bhaal a third full game. Due to time, they were forced to compress it into an expansion.

 

Hopefully Obsidian gets a chance to complete the Pillars trilogy, I fully support retaining the engine & mechanics.

 

I think we can all agree that the next game should *NOT* be titled "Pillars Mobile".

 

With microtransactions!

 

"Your wizard is about to be hit with an interrupt, losing their spell. Do you want to spend 100 coins or buy 1 gem to give yourself concentration?"

 

that would be the darkest timeline