Ganrich

My crashes occurred using it, but mostly with the frost armor 2nd level phrase. However, I think the fire weapon one is the big issue. Could be wrong, but it is the only constant in my crashes.

Were you using the phrase Aefyllath Ues Mith Fyr for the fire weapon buff? I have crashed using it I do believe. Just want to see if we can pin down the culprit.

Ironically the bar has a solid population they just got quiet when the sheriff showed up. 0_o

Fighters get access to Weapon Specialization that is a damage increase. They get that at level 4 I do believe. Where all classes (except wizard, cipher, and chanter because of bugs I believe) get Weapon Focus at level 3 and that increases accuracy.

Voice acting is often one of the last things done in most games. I didn't expect much of any in beta.

Yeah, I think that outside of boosting core class abilities, weapon focus/specialization, and the like... that the Talents should be class agnostic and only have attribute requirements (if any requirements) and other talents as prerequisites. That way the attributes can be what they are now and still have weight later in the game. A fighter should be able to learn a few spells, a Cipher could learn a talent that sacrifices ranged accuracy for melee accuracy, etc etc.

At Character Creation < that is key to this. Gromnir is saying that players shouldn't be crapped on by the game for uneducated decisions at Character Creation. That too many RPGs put far too much emphasis at CharGen, and not enough emphasis during level up. A person with an odd build will still have valuable talents that are hidden behind Attribute Requirements in PoE. While in the IE games they would just be screwed because their build may not be good enough to complete content. Gromnir wants more emphasis on power gain as you level than at CharGen. Simple as that. I think he makes a solid argument. That is... IF that is indeed the plan Obsidian has in store. If the game will have few talents than I think the attribute system needs a tweak though. As Gromnir alluded to and what Josh wrote in Update 84, Obsidian is holding back on introducing the talents in order to test the core mechanics and then add talents based on play testing. "You build a character at 1st level, but you will start the game with enough experience to advance to 5th. While we have very few Talents in the Backer Beta, you should be able to get a very good idea of the core functionality of all eleven classes. It is extremely important to us that the fundamentals of each class feel solid before we implement more Talents or move Abilities around." Yup, and I get that. I am saying that he is arguing to take weight off character creation, and emphasizing character development more so via Talents, abilities, skills, spells, whatever. I am not saying that we will get more talents in Beta, but that they will help specialize your character where in the IE games it was done primarily by the attribute system in CharGen (for most classes).

At Character Creation < that is key to this. Gromnir is saying that players shouldn't be crapped on by the game for uneducated decisions at Character Creation. That too many RPGs put far too much emphasis at CharGen, and not enough emphasis during level up. A person with an odd build will still have valuable talents that are hidden behind Attribute Requirements in PoE. While in the IE games they would just be screwed because their build may not be good enough to complete content. Gromnir wants more emphasis on power gain as you level than at CharGen. Simple as that. I think he makes a solid argument. That is... IF that is indeed the plan Obsidian has in store. If the game will have few talents than I think the attribute system needs a tweak though.

I have heard both ways. Trying to find where I read it was sectioned off. I will link it if I can find it. Edit: ignore the previous post. I can't find where I read it, and a bug is equally, if not more so, likely.

Agreed, and yes to naming saves as well.

That dungeon has sections completely cut off for beta purposes. I am guessing it is of a spoiler-y (to the core story in the game) nature. So, we cannot finish it, and thus cannot get XP for it.

You have my attention, Gromnir. You may have swayed me on increasing/decreasing attribute bonuses. I will think on it more. I am still pretty sure Perception and Resolve need a little love to make them more appealing. I just fear everyone will go all into the other 4 stats, and ignore these 2. I did for good many characters since beta released. I learned from my mistakes, but I am someone that A) wanted to test it myself (for beta testing reasons) and B) is always giving the odd things a go after a little while. Which isn't really against your topic here but somewhat related.

Yup, I am on the edge of my seat. Definitely get another post started when you can.

"STOP TOUCHING MEEEE!!!"

You make the Main PC at character generation, and at a point in the game you can "hire" (and create) other companions in certain locations. These hired characters are built by you, and replace the companion NPCs. However, they aren't with you from the beginning like the IWD games. So, yes and no?

The last thing Jermey Soule did that I truly enjoyed was Wings of Kynareth from the Oblivion Soundtrack. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BuFXhcUz06s However, this is one of those ambiance tracks, and I can see why others might not like it. I just think it is one of the standout tracks on Oblivion's soundtrack. I think he is a good composer, and all, but kind of shackled by the TES franchise in a way. I think that it gets old after a while, and less memorable with every TES game. Anyway, I like the music in PoE. I think it being more subdued at times is good, but I LOVE the track from the teaser trailer. If there are more tracks like that throughout the game then I don't see why people would complain.

Fair. I would agree with that.

No problem Nonek, once the bugs are out and leveling to 8 is consistent, I am planning on leveling all classes to 8 and showing what I missed. Heads are too big in CharGen, but it isn't as noticeable in game. However, that may be a design decision in order to better tell "who is who" in combat.

I agree with this to some extent. I think the limitations on Chanters, Ciphers, and Wizards (via Grimoires) make them more interesting to play and make different builds with. When you have access to all spells (like the Druid and Priest) you tend to use the best options available to you given the situation. This makes them more generalist by nature (< pun intended for druids). If I make a Shapeshifter Druid, and the situation is better dealt with by raining fire and brimstone from afar, then that is what the class will do. While if I need to get into the fray of melee, that is what I will do. I haven't even looked to see the validity of a melee Priest. I am going to check that out the moment I finish this post. My 2 cents, and this is a conversation for another thread, but it is applicable here. I think Spell range needs to be greatly effected by an Attribute. Which one is up to debate, but it cannot be Might, Dex, or Per IMHO because they already cover things that may be incompatible. EG Might builds need shorter ranges (increased damage needs to have a more melee approach), Dexterity already covers accuracy (and thus doesn't need to cover range of Spells), and Perception governs Interrupt... it would be weird to have interrupt and spell range hand in hand as it might be too potent. Resolve might be the right Attribute but I wouldn't couple Concentration and range as the builds that want range don't want Concentration as much, and the build that want Concentration are more likely to be in melee. Anyway the point of controlling spell range via a stat is that IF you spec into Might, Con, and Dex to make a Shifter style druid then your spells only work when you are close to a target thus facilitating the playstyle. This would require AoE size and how Intellect affects it to be more drastic. High physical Attributes would be more damaging and more melee suited. While high Int would give bigger AoEs, longer Durations, perhaps higher interrupt/Concetration. Anyway, this idea isn't without reshuffling what the Attributes govern that is for sure.

Yeah, Druids are definitely very strong in the game. They only have 1 summon spell, and it is buggy atm. That spell might get a power increase at a higher level though. I think that, thematically, Druids should have some summons. However, mechanically they do not need them. They are tough as nails, and their spells are really good. EDIT: Anyone else thinks that druids are way to damage orientated right now? I have been debating that for a little while. I am going to make a Druid again at some point today to test some spells. I definitely think they need more healing though. We moved away from Rogues being needed to pick locks/disarm traps, but we only have 1 class built around solid healing (priest). I think that there need to be more options on healing and the druid has always been the go to in that regard.

Every class has something unique they bring to the table. Chanters, outside of their phrase/chant/invocation mechanics... buff, debuff, and summon. Their purpose, in my estimation, is to augment the party and reduce the need for other classes to spend resources. They focus on reducing damage dealt to your party, increase damage put out by your party, some CC, and some AoE damage. Their damage from spells is abysmal compared to druids, wizards, and Ciphers (Soul Ignition LOL). Their CCs are reliant on having 3+ Chant Counters which don't come quickly... so other classes can pull down CC better because they can do it whenever they like depending on resources. Their having more summons is a way to assist this. I am not saying that Druids and Wizards shouldn't have summons, but that those summons shouldn't be better than the Chanters. Summons and Buff/Debuffs are the best things Chanters bring to the table. If Druids and Wizards get anywhere close to the Chanter than the Chanter has a chance of getting a 2nd class citizen card for everything in the game (like Bards in the IE and NWN games).

Fair point. They do need to be weakened in either number or stamina atm. I am fine either way. Interior areas get congested with a party of 5 and 3 skeletons, and I can only imagine what would happen if that 6th party member was a Ranger. I am not a summoner at heart... so however they balance them won't cause any ramifications on my end. The Chanters get 1 or 2 more summons at level 6 where they get their level 2 Invocations. I lucked out and hit level 6 before the game bugged out on me.

Cool. Then my guess is that when these classes select their spells for level 3 that this screen interferes with the Talent screen for one reason or another. I could be wrong though. They are the only 3 classes that select a small number of spells from a larger pool during level up. The Priest and Druid get access to their entire spell list and never see a selection screen, and no one else has "spells".

So, I have focused a lot more on the Chanter than other classes as it is the class I plan on playing first. I want to get into some of their abilities and why they are probably overpowered. I am going to keep this as brief as I can. Why are they OP: Summons - I am unsure if summons are broken mechanically or whether they are intended to last as long as they currently do. Currently... you summon creatures during the first beetle encounter, and they can work in the frontline for the rest of the map. Three Skeletons + fighter in the front line reduces the parties need to cast spells, and increases longevity between rests far too much, IMHO. The lack of a way to dismiss Summons makes me wonder if Summons are suppose to dismiss themselves once combat ends. If this is the case then minor tweaks are needed. If it isn't the case then the summons need their Stamina Pools reduced, and/or they need only summon 1 creature at a time (3 skeletons is too much). Three skeletons also tends to clog up some of the maps... although that is another issue entirely. Buff/Debuff - The chanter has a plethora of these abilities: They have a haste for ranged classes, they can give allies burn damage on their weapons, they can cause fear debuffs, they can reduce Concentration, they can do AoE stamina damage in multiple ways, they can Hobble targets, they can defend/reduce fear effects, etc. These are all phrases, and have no limits to uses per day/rest. They are weaved in a way that makes it like an ever changing Bard Song. They are all AoE. Used in certain ways they can really assist your party, and can be somewhat OP by themselves. I think they are mostly fine, but some tweaking to certain ones like: Come, Come Soft Winds of Death (AoE stamina damage). I love it, and have great fun with it, but I can see it being too powerful. AoE - The Chanter has almost all AoE abilities except for the summons. So, you can buff, debuff, Damage, and CC entire groups of allies/enemies. This is a big one. I particular Culprit is The Thunder Rolled Like Waves on Black Seas. This is an invocation (spell ability that requires 3 phrase counters) that pushes enemies away from the Chanter and Stuns them (Cone spell). So, you can AoE stun enemies while pushing them away from your weaker party members. If you hit the bulk of your enemies you can really change the outcome of a fight. My 2 cents here is that Chanters need summons tuned down (them dismissing after a encounter would be a big one), some AoE abilities (invocations) may need to be single target, and some tweaking may need to be in order for the Phrases. I may have missed something and would love more input.

So, as a beta participant I wanted to create a video for each class showing off some of the abilities and going over thoughts on the class. I decided to wait until all the videos were finished prior to starting this thread as I wanted to keep things as neat as possible. I have avoided spoilers. I talk to no one. You will see some NPCs, and some mobs, and the areas they inhabit. Nothing else. So, here we are... Druid https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QdycyffrGYw Ranger https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CR5Z2kVRWj8 Barbarian https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qttMLP_3uC8 Monk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47sAeSe8Fdw Paladin https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zd3_g0uKElQ Priest https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iAyIf7fD8M8 Cipher https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wM29I_kfb1I Chanter https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_1-zjj0dLI Wizard https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9cfSS9_Qa_Q Fighter https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yu0ekwQo64M Rogue https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YbQH8H-RBO4 I hope you find these videos informative, and I am willing to answer any questions that I can. Also, I am sure I am wrong about a few things in these videos... so corrections are always welcome. If I miss anything in the video that you are curious about I will do what I can to answer. I will even make the class again and get any information that I need.