Ganrich

PrimeJunta covers the majority of what I think can change before launch. I would make it more succinct and say that anything presently in the game can be tweaked, but nothing will be overhauled. This is fine as no system IMHO is broken, but may require a few tweaks. The XP system is considered broken by some, and I am mentioning it so someone doesn't quote me just to derail the thread.

I can understand this line of thinking. I was suggesting attribute requirements being more prominent than class requirements, but those talents linked to attributes would have to play off certain very expected things: a talent that requires perception should play off interrupts for instance, while a talent that increases raw damage requires might, etc. These don't have to exclusively require attributes either they could require the attribute being at a certain level "or" require a prerequisite talent "or" a certain class. Any one of these things could unlock it. Another thing I was suggesting was requiring intellect to allow a class to select some spell oriented talent. This would make sense logically. My talent suggestion "Arcane Gift" requiring some intellect for a Barbarian would make sense as a Barbarian learning to use his would to cast spells requires so critical thinking. Where a Wizard picking this talent would gain a level 1 spell slot in his grimoire, and an intellect requirement would follow the IE games allowing more spells for higher main stat. So it still makes sense. All of this would require complete transparency of the talents in a manual or at character creation though, and would require adhering to Josh's "No bad builds" policy.

No radial menus please. Sensuki covered this issue already. The icons just need to be moved toward the center of the screen just above the UI. Top picture on Sensuki's post here: http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/68014-sensukis-suggestions-012-non-terrible-main-hud-mockup/ Arguments can be had about where the portraits and the dialogue box/chat window are located, but everything else is how I would prefer it.

His name was Tinman. What did you expect?

I always found the situations in the IE games where you face multiple solid adversaries instead of 1 giant baddie vs your team of 6 were more interesting. The group at the top of the Iron Throne headquarters in BG1 come to mind. They have a couple melee and a few casters. I think there are 5 or so in total. I don't care for 1 HP endowed god and a 2 minions made of paper than only give you trouble if you leave them be. I want a handful (not opposed to more) of really capable enemies.

@PrimeJunta Simulation or no. If you shoot someone in the leg (with a bow or a gun) they will fall down.

I really like the idea because it would turn the druid into another caster-healer but with a different mechanic.He would be way more flexible because every spell = heal but the effect could be weaker. So the priest has big important heals and the druid can machine gun through his heals if needed. The one heal the Druid gets is a HoT (iirc I am not on my pc atm). I think making the Druid mostly HoT spells that didn't allow for burst healing would work. That particular idea would need limitations in frequency and/or potency.

Adding this to the abilities in the main post IF they are selected by the class that can already cast those spells. Arcane Gift could allow an extra slot in your Grimoire if your a Wizard. Holy Gift could allow a Priest to convert a Spell into Holy Radiance or Interdiction. (Can't think of any other ideas) Nature's Gift could convert a spell into a heal. (Game needs another healer class IMHO). Should have a limited use of this ability per rest though to keep them from being better than priests. Any better ideas in this situation are welcome.

@Gromnir I agree with the Priest being the ONLY healer being a problem. I can only hope that Talents allow other classes to heal, but I really think the Druid... and possibly one other class should get the ability to heal in some capacity. Having a Bard that could healing in the NWN games made things interesting at times even though his healing wasn't nearly in the Cleric/Druid ballpark. Druids get 1 heal in 3 spell levels, and that bothers me.

Understood. I don't disagree with you really, but I feel the classes I mentioned can be kind of limited. You are right the Barbarian (and the paladin) are better off than the rogue (or the fighter IMHO) as they benefit more from some of the Attributes (pally auras, frenzy, wildsprint, and barbs limited AoE can benefit from Intellect for instance). This allows more versatile builds.

Crit damage is normally x1.5. So you only take x1.1 crit damage. That is how I take it. I think it is worded poorly.

Well, my reasoning for it was that a class learning spells not innate to their profession requires some intelligence. EG A Barbarian wanting to learn to cast a spell may require some problem solving skills. On the same note a Wizard learning to spec a talent like "Power Strikes" would require some Might. Etc. I am just trying to give each Attribute weight in the level up game (instead of locking feats to certain classes like 3/3.5 did) while trying to keep value for each attribute.

Not opposed to getting talents every 2 levels if the enemies are balanced accordingly. Fighters get an extra talent at 4 so I am assuming that they get talents at 3, 4, 6, 8, 9, and 2 talents at 12. The 2nd idea I am kind of against though. I think having some consistency with the class would be good. Otherwise what is the point of a class? Players would pick the class with the best innate abilities and just pick all the abilities that would make the most OP class. I think, and this is a personal thing, that giving players freedom is good, but you can give too much and cause some damage to the system. Or, as the old adage goes, "give someone too much rope and they will hang themselves with it"(paraphrasing).

I made a thread specifically to discuss Talent ideas so as to not derail the multiple discussions that could be had on this thread. For anyone interested in speculating: http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/68002-talents-what-would-be-wanted-and-what-is-needed/

Certain classes in the game are kind of set in a way that make them so suited to melee that you wouldn't use them for anything else, they are much less interesting by design than others, or they acquire all of there spells and have a generalist feel because they lack any limitation. So, this thread is to give suggestions to Obsidian as to what we would like to see as talents/feats in the game. I don't think we need to give specific numbers because this system is too new, and it would likely not get implemented 100%. So, I am going to give a few examples: The Arcane Gift: You can use a level 1 spell from the Wizard class as a twice per rest ability (probably a limited selection). Nature's Gift: Same as Arcane Gift but for Druid Spells. Gift of the Gods: Same as previous but with Priest spells. Arcane Steel: Caster can increase melee accuracy by using a cast from any level spell (higher level spells increase accuracy). Last until encounter ends. Some of these Talents should have Attribute requirements as well. I think that Talents giving spells from one class (priest for instance) to any other class in the game should have an intelligence requirement), while any melee buff Talents should have MIght Requirements, any talents increasing ranged should require Dexterity, and so on. This would give more weight to the decisions made with Attributes, while not allowing you to make a crappy character, and possibly allow Obsidian to increase the impact of the Attributes themselves (some people aren't happy with the amount of increase/decrease of stats based on how you spec your attributes). Anyway, food for thought. I look forward to critiques on my Talents, and new talent suggestions to come.

Yup, the fighter having his abilities tied to melee make it worse than just the accuracy issue. His ranged accuracy is no worse than the Wizards melee accuracy... so if his abilities weren't mostly melee it wouldn't be too much of an issue. Talents may alleviate this though. The fighter may end up having a solid ranged/melee mixed build if you can talent into some talents magical or otherwise, and they could become very versatile. I wish Obsidian would at least give us a list of Talents they do have ready... it could alleviate my worry for the stagnant feel of a few of the classes.

Good post, Prime Junta. I agree with thee again. I also agree with Sensuki that some of the more traditional classes need something more. I have tinkered with all the classes to one extent or another, and I think the most guilty of needing a bit more to make them fun are: Fighter, Rogue, Barbarian, Priest, and Paladin. The Wizard could be argued one way or the other. The Druid is somewhat on the list, but they can easily be fixed by some changes to Wild Shape and Wild Strike to give them more flare. The paladin and Priest need something done to increase the effect to the class by selecting Order and Deity respectively. They should have differing benefits based on that choice. More than minor buffs for RPing anyway (Paladin's Faith and Conviction gives greater buff [increases all defenses] and the priest's Holy Radiance ability heals for more stamina if you RP the character appropriately). My 2 cents anyway. Different spell focus for priest, and perhaps a different ability based on the Paladin's order may help. The Wizard can be vastly different based on what you are going for, but I feel late in the game you will have a few grimoires and things may get same-y. Talents should change this though. The Fighter, the rogue, and the barbarian need something, but I can't for the life of me think of what that could be. Of course... Some people might like less than active playstyles that these classes give, and talents may be a game changer here as well. The Chanter, Cipher, Monk, and Ranger are fine in terms of fun. Although, the Ranger wouldn't suffer by getting a few more things to do. They have some positional play though, and some may find that fun.

Well, I use this feature tactically. I use BB Fighter to initiate conversations because if I start a fight he is in position to draw attention. I really don't want my ranged squishy to be standing amidst 5 people I just pissed off just because he is the main character. I do understand how this feature causes confusion though.

Although, I am not on the same side of the debate as Immortalis I agree with his post. The argument has run in circles forever and a half, and no amount of debating will cause either side to buckle. The only answer is to wait for the patches to come to fix the XP system and see how these issues feel afterward. Also there is indeed enough threads on the subject. We don't need more threads. We need less.

Bumping this to see if we can have a dev response on the issue. Is it a known issue?

I use to hate racial bonuses. I still hate them in MMOs. However, they are fine when they are tame in cRPGs.

I agree with PrimeJunta and Josh here. Aggro mechanics were what made me really not care for DAO. They made almost every encounter the same. When a mob in PoE breaks out after your wizard/cipher/whatever you have to use tactics depending on the situation. If Taunt was in then all you would have to do is have the tank taunt to pull it back. That is boring to me.

Agree with Stun on the elvish archer thing. It isn't a huge deal for the IE games. I doubt it will be here either. An Amaua archer may be less accurate, but that might bonus means his arrows feel like they are being fire by a ballista. The choice is still in your hands. The way attributes work at present in the game means that using the less optimal race may still work just fine.

Soul ignition is so good that you really don't need to use anything else. It is basically a finger of death. It's numbers need tweaking, but I feel that making "some" Cipher spells per encounter may help as well. Faster weapons means a Ciphers focus is replenished incredibly fast. Being able to back to back soul ignitions basically means you can kill 2 targets. This is more noticeable on easier difficulties, and IMHO makes them too easy. Chanters are OP too, but at least their invocations take longer to cast as they start with 0 in there pool. They also take a set amount of time to build phrase counters. Ciphers have great single target spells (some of the best in game) can cast a couple right off the bat and get focus back pretty quickly. Ciphers can use faster weapons to build focus insanely fast.

1). Once making a Druid with a from you can see their special ability once formed, but I didn't look at the stats page to see if things changed there. Nor did I look at the forms' damage type. However, the boar shape gives a duration buff that works like the fighter's stamina gain, stag gives an AoE cone attack (fairly small ,but good for melee clusters), I can't remember the bear and didn't try the others. The bear may be a passive boost to DT. 2-5 I will look into these more later tonight or sometime tomorrow.