Ganrich

Wizard is an amalgamation of D&D's Sorcerer and Wizard. Their grimoire limits them, but they can cast any spells (as many times as they like) from it like a sorcerer giving them more freedom than wizards of D&D. While Chanters and Ciphers get limited spell selection from a larger pool just like the sorcerer/bard in D&D. By level 5 they can only access 3-4 spells from a list of 8 or so level 1 spells(invocations or whatever they are called).

They probably froze in that state because you map traveled. Time to start a new game. I have just been trying new classes and playing until it bugs. I look for bugs while I am at it.

Druids and Priests get talents at 3 along with their spells. So, really the only 3 are the "Arcane" Casters. I really think it is a bug, or that the talents for those 3 classes aren't implemented yet... which would be odd seeing that a good portion of the talents in game are the same across every class (weapon focus and Hold the Line). All the classes with special talents only have 3 of them. I would like a developer response on this. I just want to know if we should expect talents for these 3 classes. I would really be upset if only 3 classes got screwed when it comes to talents. EDIT: Druids and Priests don't have to select their spells though. They just unlock them. Perhaps that is the issue that the 3 classes in question are missing their talents because it is bugging when you go to select your spells.

Left book icon above your character portrait lets you set up the order of your phrases, and have different phrases for different situations. I think 4 is the limit... which is fine. You then have to click the appropriate chant when combat begins, and switch when you need to. After you activate it the first time the chants should start every combat after that on their own. You just need to switch it manually if you feel you need to.

I actually think that the % that stats go down should increase as you dip below 10. I understand some safety net, but you can't stop stupid... and you shouldn't try. Hell, I would make it so the Ability screen has a tooltip pop up saying "10 is the average for any ability, and anything below that is bad" and then once the player hits OK (too clear the Pop up) all their stats are at 10, the get "X" points to distribute accordingly, and they can dump below 10 at their own peril.

Agreed, on all points. If there was 1 critique I've had with the IE games it was that many Non-caster classes are set it and forget it. I feel like needing to constantly switch between my party and make decisions about what each member is doing (using limited resources) is one of the things this game has fixed and, IMHO, it could use a few more abilities on some of the classes to make it even more intense. If you add a queue system it marginalizes that change. Can you honestly say that the IE games feel anything like Kotor? The IE games require a bit more active play while the Kotor games, although I enjoyed them, you could set up a series of commands and watch it happen until things went wrong and respond accordingly. It is a much more passive game than the IE games.

You're kidding me. Doesn't that come out to like less than a 1 point of damage per point of Might? In a game where friggin spiders have 150 health? I hope I'm not the only one here who's cringing at these nearly worthless penny-increment stats. Change of plans. I'm gonna roll up a 3 might, 3 dex Fighter first thing in the morning and see if I can't STILL hold my own in melee against BB_Fighter and BB_rogue If it weren't for the enemy health pool... I would point out that 3rd edition only gives you 1 point of damage per 2 points into STR, but them PoE Spider health pools are huge. I definitely think the stats need to have more effect, and that goes double if they lower the number of points we have to allocate come release.

Dear god!!! You will Bear-y the competition. (for Lephys).

Yeah, I am doing the same thing you are as a byproduct. I just roll a class play for a bit, roll another class play for a bit. If I roll the same class a 2nd time I try a new stat layout to see how it changes things. I am ready to hear about a patch... if only to fix the weapon loss/quest log bugs.

if that is possible, it is probable via cut-scene interaction HA! Good Fun! I haven't seen it used on an Inanimate Object, but... I have seen it used on a person in conversation (not going to say who or where). I agree with Gromnir though... if it happens it will happen in an interaction or conversation. I doubt it will work like a skill such as mechanics finding hidden items. Edit: Also, although they are OP I recommend you try a Chanter, Gromnir. If you haven't already.

Can't you hire an entire party from the tavern? Or is it prohibitively expensive to do so? it's expensive for level 4 adventurers (which doesn't get your level 3 spells, and a few abilities) and it requires time to play the game and acquire the $. Or you can roll another character and get level 5.

Monks are fun. They require a good bit of forethought and have a very active playstyle. They aren't a "set it and forget it" melee class like I feel a few tend to be in beta. I am also tired of the BBs lol.

Although, Perception is largely considered "not as useful" I would go Dex over might for a interrupt build. If I hit more consistently then my chances to interrupt go up. It's one of those situations where a Dex build might see more tangible benefits from being more utilitarian over raw damage. While high dex, and decent Perception, would do solid damage. Just not as much as might. However, it would stop some damage from coming in... which is good. I feel dex is still in a good place. Awesome work btw. EDIT: I realize this post was out of left field, but I felt like sharing my thoughts.

But that's hardly all that distinguishes, say, a mage from a fighter in AD&D, is it. Fighters can't use wands or scrolls or cast spells. Mages can't wear armor or wield swords. Obsidian screwed themselves over by removing equipment requirements. The game has leather armor, but it is completely useless. There is no reason to use it because every class can just use full plate armor. I disagree. Attack speed is tied to armor. So, the heavier your armor the slower you are. Are the numbers right? I am sure they aren't, but I wouldn't put heavy armor on a ranged wizard with long cast times with no resolve. If they get attacked they will be in a world of hurt. On the same note I wouldn't have heavy armor on an archer build or a rogue/barb using light-fast weapons.

I feel like the Fighters, rogues, pallys, and barbs are the most noticeable culprits. These classes need more to differentiate themselves. While druids feel like a cross between a priest and a wizard with shapeshift. However, shapeshift makes a pretty big difference and Druids aren't a heal oriented as Priests. Chanters - have their chant/phrase/invocation system that feels different from the monk and Cipher (but more like the cipher). Ciphers - ^ Monks - feel like intended offtanks. they are there to keep 1 person in check, or harass a back line. Ranger - their pet makes a world of difference and they feel different as a byproduct. I would like to say that I noticed a huge difference in some classes by selecting different attributes. While it is less noticeable with others. I think we need feats/talents that further differentiate the classes. These Talents need to be something unique to the class and not just a buff to an already available ability/skill/spell, and increase to engagement limit, or a weapon specialization. I know Obsidian said that the beta wouldn't have many feats, and that input might be useful. I think this is the topic they were waiting for on that front and requires a new thread to get ideas rolling.

1. Chanter 2. Paladin 3. fighter 4. Wizard/maybe druid 5. Priest 6. Cipher/maybe ranger

Not in this demo they're not. In this demo, one non-spellcasting class can approach things exactly the same as any other. This isn't a knock on the game. They could have dispensed with the classes outright and just turned all the skillsets/talents into "talent trees", allowing a character to pick and choose at will from any of them every time he/she levels up, and the builds we're reporting wouldn't really have been a whole lot different But as it stands, the only real difference between say, a Fighter and a Rogue are the health/stamina/accuracy/D.T and saving throws. And even those can be minimized by Attributes and gear. I kind of agree Stun. In the beta, and I can't get to level 8 because I crash or the game bugs in one way or another, but I feel that the non magic users get very limited ability sets. They get 5-6 abilities that are instants, modal, or a buff. This means they feel very same-y, and I feel that more talents that are class specific but not just buffs to current abilities are kind of needed to make them stand out more. I am not knocking the game either. I haven't made the muscle wizard yet because I haven't really made, and played for an extended amount of time, a wizard. I get the spellbook bug on spawn in or shortly there after and I just got frustrated and gave up after a while. I will though, before too long. I got the weekend to try. I have made an odd build with the Chanter though. I know they are OP, but... I went 10 Might, 10 Con, 16ish dex, 18ish Perception, 12 Int, and 14 Resolve. I use a 2 chant phrase that starts with "Thick Grew their Tongues, Stumble O'er Words" (reduces enemy Concentration), and follow it with "Come, come soft winds of Death" (it does AoE stamina damage to enemies). My high Perception + their reduced concentration + AoE damage = LOL. Wade into combat with a melee weapon, and after I have whittled them down with AoE (while interrupting them) I switch to a blunderbuss and start removing them 1 by 1 (the Rogue helps with this stage a great deal as well). The Attribute system is really fun to play with. Whether Perception and Resolve are meh or not... this build works, and is fun.

Wizards don't get them either. So, either they aren't finished implementing the talents, or those 3 classes don't get them. Keep in mind those 3 are the 'Arcane' classes so that might mean they just don't get talents. I am unsure though. Is there a dev in the house to answer this?

Well said, Bugs et all I enjoy playing this far more than I did the original Divinity beta release. I agree with Karkarov here, and C2B's post on the front page. The game is very pretty, the spell effects are pretty cool, the writing is solid for an optional area, reputation system is intriguing, and many of the classes are very unique feeling (and fun to play). The game is in beta and as such has many technical and balance issues (which is what Obsidian is using the beta to try to remedy). The issues most discussed atm (bugs not included) are the Attribute system (which Obsidian is already looking into), how XP is handed out, class balance (not being discussed, but it is apparent to me as I have played the Chanter lol), combat responsiveness (Pathfinding, autoattack, knowing what is doing what etc), and a few other odds and ends. The game is fun to play regardless of these things. I feel better about this game being a Spiritual Successor to the IE games than I did when I finished my first playthrough of DA: O. That is probably something that could stir a debate, but it does have more in common with the IE games than DA: O did. Things like Monster Variety, Number of Classes, 6 party members, spells and abilities are more similar to IE games (no MMO tank mechanics: THANK GOD), and a few other things all make me feel this way. However, others could very likely disagree. On the note of classes: I really like the classes Obsidian has laid out. Of note, the Monk, Chanter, and Cipher are all fun because of their resource mechanics. The Druid is versatile and fun... the Pally, fighter, Barbarian, rogue, wizard, and Priest are what I would expect at level 5 (which is good), and the Ranger is the buggiest but shows great promise. My one issue here is the lack of Talents/Feats to help diversify you build further, but we knew the beta would be limited on feats. I have videos coming to showcase the classes at level 5 if anyone is interested. Some classes get more coverage than others (Some classes would require me to do multiple characters to show all their abilities since they get spells like a Sorcerer in the IE games and I don't have the time to edit it appropriately) but I at least cover the basics and show their uniqueness as best as I can. I am basically just winging a single recording though, and it is far from professional.

Yeah, I agree. I think we will see 6 attributes in the end for the very reasons you stated.

@Karkarov - I agree that there being 6 stats is a big part of the issue. However, since Might and Con increase Fortitude, Dex and Perception increase Reflex, and Int and Resolve increase Will it would throw the symmetry off in the saving throws department. It would make increasing the save governed by a single attribut far too easy to get up there and possibly cause some issues. I have been thinking about solutions that involve 5 stats, but balancing saves is the issue because the only way to fix it is to have 1 stat govern each save. That leaves 2 stats that could become dump stats as a byproduct. I would keep Resolve, but scrap Perception. Then do something like this: Might - damage and healing and carrying capacity con - health, stamina, and Fortitude Dexterity - Accuracy and interrupt Int - AoE size and concentration Resolve - duration and Fortitude This keeps symmetry among the saves while giving all stats except constitution some offensive capabilities. You could toss crit chance increase in there and move things around some more as well. I think allowing a 1 second stun on Resolve may be too powerful. However, instead of talents increasing the engagement limit you could allow resolve the ability to increase the engagement limit. Just a quick thought. Sorry for errors. On my phone at work.

A quick "What if" before I head to work. This is for proponents of kill xp. Let's use the Ogre as an example. You kill say 5 -8 beetles, 2 spiders at the entrance to the cave, 3ish inside the cave, and the Ogre himself. What if each kill generated xp, but that xp was subtracted from the quest xp. So if the quest gives 3000 xp and 10 enemies you encounter gave 50xp per kill then upon finishing the quest you recieve 2500xp because the 500 is subtracted for the monsters. There would have to be systems in place to disallow double dipping and the like, and you would have to limit the number of trash mobs that generated xp on the way to the Ogre of course. I dunno, I am sleepy, and just wanted to toss this idea around. It would keep most options open for other non-combat playstyles, but may be a bit too complex to get off the ground at this point. EDIT: Forgot to say if you didn't finish the quest you still got 500xp. Also, 50xp was shooting from the hip number. More or less depending on how quickly Obsidian wants us gaining xp is needed for sure.

Agreed. Going to quote myself. It is a post I made in one of Sensuki's threads. http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/67093-sensukis-suggestions-005-item-descriptions-and-contextual-ui-rant/page-2

Great post again, Sensuki. You are a machine lol. I agree with a lot of your points. On the note of the inventory screen and functionality (since it seems our individual characters inventory went from 16 slots to 8 ) I would shrink the PC/NPC portraits and move all party members up toward the top to give space at the bottom for the stash. That way you can avoid a stash button and you can gray out items in the stash to show that you cannot access them at the moment. You can still allow right clicking and hovering on grayed out stash items to allow for figuring out what you have down there, but keep players from pulling items out of it. You could still have a small scroll in order to see the entire stash if you have a megaton of items in it. This could also be used in the merchant window which would decrease the need to scroll to access the entire party's individual inventories, and the scroll could be added to access the stash without necessitating a button. This IMHO would streamline things a great deal.

Although, I said I was waiting for the beta to continue this debate I am lucky to get a single quest finished before the quest log flips out on me because of one reason or another. I don't feel I can make an informed decision until I can play it how it was intended. I am still in support of objective xp, but I would like a fairly unbiased play of the system before falling on one side or the other. So, I am holding out on voting while neither condoning or condemning the present system. The present bug situation makes it easy to hate the system, and that is unfair to Josh IMHO. I want to see it working.