Tauron

By all means, have away. Fun, that is. You might've made your point very well (after all, it's just opinion versus opinion, so there's no way to objectively assess that, right?), but I honestly am not comprehending what your point actually is. Unless by "made my point," you were actually just arbitrarily stating an opinion. Which, there's nothing wrong with that. But, there's opinion, and then there's not-opinion, and the two are separate things. For example, if you said "Those trolls are too big, because they take up the entire screenshot!", I would say you're wrong. And that wouldn't be my opinion, because they measurably do not take up the entire screenshot. If you happened to feel that they should be smaller, then awesome. That's an opinion. If you felt like they should be smaller BECAUSE THEY COVER THE ENTIRE ENVIRONMENT! Well, then that's just nonsensical. You're claiming a factual basis for your opinion, one that isn't true. So, to re-iterate one more time, simply: To not like the troll design is fine. You're entitled to your opinion. To say that the reason you don't like the troll design is that it strays from any established troll lore whatsoever is not fine, because your opinion does not get to supercede fact, which is that trolls bear a very broad spectrum of descriptions. Therefore, there's no objective basis for their design in PoE to be flawed. Unliked? Sure. Objectively flawed? No. And, for the record, you can't argue that you just don't like it, AND argue that there's a factual reason you don't like it, at the same time. That doesn't make any sense. "Upon objective evaluation, no troll lore allows for such a troll design, but when you tell me that's not true, I'm going to point out that we're just having an opinion battle..." People are entitled to their opinions, and yet that doesn't change the facts. They're not even the same thing. Admitting that it's an objectively sound troll design doesn't prevent you from holding the opinion that the trolls look bad, or that you'd rather they were designed differently. Nor does it make that opinon the wrong one to have. In other words, it doesn't have to be wrong because you don't like it, NOR do you have to not-like it just because it's wrong. If the troll design was a magical 3-headed kitten with sausages for wings, you could still like that design, and that would be your opinion of that design. Meanwhile, it would have nothing to do with any prior troll establishments. Two separate things. Just as you've done, I feel that I've made my point quite clearly, and you may do as you please with it. But, I don't think I can make it any more clearly, or cause you to believe that I honestly didn't understand the point you were trying to make before. So, it is what it is. *shrug* Wow. You are more passionate about Troll design than I am. I never claimed there is only one acceptable design. You are misunderstanding my arguments for Troll design and taking it too far in absolutes. Either you are virgo in horoscope or you have argumentation theory OCD. *insertfunny* While there is certanly room for artistic freedoom I have written my worries for their interpretation of Trolls. I have stated why and becouse. You on other hand accept blindly any given represantation given to you and that is fine. It is a new universe, new rules, thats fresh, I get it. But there are many other similar fantasy established creatures, clearly in favorable or traditionally accepted "humane" design. Which and why I have stated my worries about it in previous posts as how that might portray the recent Troll design than, ranging from recent movie and game Troll incarnations. Very simple. Imo...considering 'established' lore and myth. RL myth and some high fantasy exampels.

That would be sweet. If they dont add some similar customisation option, than hope game will be moddable to that degree we can change heraldy and such. Probably there will be more than few mods like that

Oh man if they would do game based on World of Darkness, that would be uber fantastic! I hear devs of EVE online are developing that one tho.

I acually like new name...even if PE stayed the same I would not mind. It has me intrigued about main story now. Our focus on forums was shifted from world lore to how world was designed before. Now we have more idea on design and it is as devs promised. They just have to fine tune it like animation and some effects. Time to get more info on world itself. Would be nice evry friday to get some lore of the world. Like all those books you find in BG series. Going through encounter in library and what better way to relax after reading about some random adventure or event in the world. That way you find more and more about universe your character is and gets more immersive imo.

I havent taken the survey yet...will do that than soon. I guess my real name is okej, I am not ashamed backing this game :D

Just so you know, as of now, neither of your badges are displayed in your profile. When you clicked your profile you probably saw the field where the two badges would be if you had them. To the right of each field you will see the name of the badge you have, in your case both fields are blank. You can check my profile to see what I mean. Have you completed your pledge management yet? It seems I havent, sorry. I just assumed that link that showed my pledge was enough. I will do so now.

Same thing here. I didnt get either. On my edit profile i see it. But it is not visible on forum.

Greetings. This sneak peak was good. Forum is alive once again.

That my silly friend, you would have to explain to virtual, forum dwelling, quasi angry mob I was refering to in original post. (fans of the particular art genre, style, in this case, elvish ones...you follow now or do I have to paint you a picture?) Yes, yes, it appeares so. Do not be hard to yourself too much. What you resist, persists. Maybe, just maybe, you will experience that "AhA" moment. You know very well, you appear as intelligent fellow. Stop this silly act. AHA...but you didnt, at that is the point! You see now? ...did I say it was? I understand what you are saying, people are not what they appear to be...like If you see someone in public wearing police uniform, carrying firearms and badge, would you automatically assume it is a police officer? Would it be any less of a stripper or some uber realistic cosplay or "insane person"/eccentric, just wearing police uniform becouse he likes it or like whatever? One should be open minded, yes? ( I think I made my point very well and you good sir, gets it. You just disagree with it. That is okej...you have right to your own opinion, even if you are wrong. Doesnt it now? Well you have right to your opinion. I just noticed PoE Trolls resemble if slightly...greenish version of Ogre's from Dragon Age Origins. http://static2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120730005458/dragonage/images/thumb/f/ff/Dragon_Age_Ogre_Fight_by_tycarey.jpg/240px-Dragon_Age_Ogre_Fight_by_tycarey.jpg Just smaller i guess, not sure of size vs ratio from those pic. As for what they are, what they are not, it is still open for discussion. Dev on this thread stated they have diff concept art of Troll going for. So trolls might be like dogs, different size and shapes, still dogs...trolls, get it?

I think I am missing mine as well. It shows on profile, but not under mine avatar.

Yes, some of animation movments were bit awkward, as animation and effects are still being developed. Being hit by lightning or anything should have some effects on character. Still, that was just a sample and it was very beautifull. I have faith dev team will work that out. Anyone noticed how awsome general art direction is? All those threads about realistic looking this and realistic looking that. Devs did keep their end of the bargain. That is good. I will not destroy you know. As for the rest that is to be unrevealed to quote FB BG admin that shared info : "plz dont suck dony suck dont suck dont suck dont suck".

I disagree. If this was about estetics and assumed nature of some playable 'established' high fantasy trope, i think this thread would get much more passionate followers. As for expectations, backing the game, evryone saw concept arts and listened to devs so they get to 'feel' and visualise first impression. Whn game got funded, it did not stop fans to make threads with thousands posts about armor, weapons, portraits, outdoors areas, races and generally estetic choices for just some of things I mentioned. How those choices affect nature of the world, interaction, etc. I dont see how this is much different?

Exactly. The same COULD be said of something like Elves. So, if they showed me elves with bark-horns growing out of their head, and green skin, I wouldn't have any reason to say "Hey! Those don't look like Elves!" I would love if PE team does that. Even as a concept. Have fun playing devils advocate than Sit back and enjoy chain reaction of discontent. As for current toad faced trolls with antlers on their head, my rant wont change anything. It might be ignorant jumping to conclusions, but I am sceptic to design becouse they too much resemble abominations. Maybe those are hotties on their homeworld. But lets face it, PE setting is late medieval/rennesance age. Considering human nature, a human with unusal physical deformity could in this "unenlightend" era (if it shares more traits beyond estetics of an age) be considered monstrosity. So that particular design more or less confirms my worries. As for foul design argument, if it didnt specify it was a troll you probably would not have guesst it and you know it. You just went along with it and that is ok mate. But lets not narrow down the possibilities Heey that would be fun. Devs design a creature, post picture and let community guess what it is But that is the argument isnt it? That there no such a thing as "familiar" Trolls...pictures in this thread from several well known franchises show all different designs. Some share slight resemblance, others are unic. Growing trend latly is that they are truly monstrous abominations. With little sign of intelligence lvl surpassing that of smarter than your avarage beast. I have stated in previous posts how I would like to see Trolls in PE universe and why. One of reasons is becouse of the same approach devs apperently did with elves and other playable races. Humanity is still killing eachother for diff in skin tone and slight facial distinctions, how much of monstrosity visualy Troll needs to have? Maybe this is ironically familiar Troll concept we are used by now. The one where they are just "mindless" monsters/abomination. Then there is nothing really unic with Trolls anyway, they are just what devs intended them to be as in every other game.

Yes it might be bit silly, I am not beyond reason...but same ofcourse could be said about most fantasy creatures taken from folklore. They could have taken elfs and used that same photo, yes? Not all folklore describes them as pointy ears, stoic, thin vegan, food/meat depraved timeless arrogant top models with magical (Troll )) affinity. As for ethymology of troll : http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?allowed_in_frame=0&search=Troll&searchmode=none I am not norwegian and I am no linguist but I live in Norway, considered mostly birthplace of Troll. So my understanding of Troll by breaking some of norwegian words like "Trollmann" means sorceror or magician. Take away Troll and you are left with "mann" that literally means man or short slang for husband depending on sentance. Husband in norwegian means "ektemann", where word "ekte" means real or true. If you would take 'english' word "husband" litterally on norwegian, "hus" means house and "band" means ties or tied... (acually english is full of norwegian/scandinavian words, nm). Ok i am loosing track....back on track : "Trolldom" means magic or sorcery. "Trolldom" if you break it apart, where "dom" literally means 'court sentance' or 'judgment'. So one thing is certain, Troll and magic share common ground. I dont know why I went through all this becouse as it said in yellow text, although it is a pardox ofsorts. They are natural yet they are supernatural. They are from nature and yet they are "other wordly". Too many words now that I think. I am arguing that it would be nice that trolls get to be more than your typical fantasy monster. Although it is described as monster sometimes, but so are dwarfs, elf/alv/Villenjak as well.

I always thought LoTR cave trolls looked like pitbull version of a Troll.

Yeah or more like demonised/corrupted/abomination/undead Saryrs or Faun. I would be guessing far more than Trolls. Dont get me wrong plz, creature looks nicly designed, ugly and appalling in appereance as it is intended but just isnt that much of a Troll to me. Ahh, would be nice if there was diff take on Trolls - would even like to see playable henchman Troll. That they have some sort of societies, small ones maybe and lvl of culture and dwllings compared to those in bronze age. Inhabiting mountain and wast forrest regions. Maybe they "devolved" from some ancient race or just their super regeneration and resistance to diseases made some stop to their "evolution" or whatever you would call it. As appereances goes, why not go to some original concepts. I always depicted trolls could be mix of Ogre and Troll folklore. Or maybe they are one and same and people just give them diff names, depending on culture. Large to small appereances (why not, you can find dogs diff shapes and sizes, from chiwawa to great dane) . The large ones Troll/Ogre could have tough greenish/grey skin resembeling slightly oakbark in appereance. Hair or "fur" that looks mossy or may be acually mossy that some 'clans' grow on them whn out hunting/raiding or as shamanistic ritual that shows as their link to nature, i dont know :D Orrrr if we really need abominable snowman/troll beast, why not something like what they did with dark elves in Thor the dark world. Where they sacrifice/transform themself permanently to become some kind of abomination. I am just throwing some of my personal preferances here. I quickly found this pic of an Ogre http://monster.wikia.com/wiki/Ogre?file=Ogre.gif Bit diffrent skin tones, somewhat bigger nose, prominent eyebrows, roughskin resembeling oak bark, hair and beard that may appear almost mossy. Maybe fingers and body stature slightly more stumpy, even if they are large. Just voicing my personal opinion with my limited english vocabulary, what I would like to see. Maybe after living in Norway for 20 years I got biased with Troll design/visual appereance in question. :D I know it is ignorant of me to assume I know anything of PE trolls lore history, since I just assume they are some "mindless" abominations from first looks. From what I propose, maybe give them more depth than they have had in recent years. Either they be primeval creatures of the world or newcomers from some other realm. Although I always thought of Troll as primeval creatures. Their decline in the world, their inability to change. Either phisiological or cultural. Anyway, I could rant on and on. That was me venting a bit But seriously, c'mon devs!!! )) C'mon awsome concepts artists, present us some new concept art of Trolls and maybe expand on lore. You said you wanted your backers to be part of creation process ) Now you have chance

A) If it was original, then it wouldn't look ANYTHING like any other troll you've ever seen before, and you'd still be displeased. B) I dare you to come up with a creature that you can't say resembles some combination of other things. C) You do realize that horns and tree roots/wood are REMARKABLY similar in form, right? Why do you think nature-based creatures tend to get that treatment? Again, I understand your preferences but don't see any kind of subjective case, here, against P:E's troll design. I'm really not seeing how P:E trolls are to other trolls as a flying bunny is to a dragon. Because they're not bigger? Almost every single troll depiction I've ever seen has them as differing sizes. Tell me... how big is a demon? What should a demon look like? What does a dryad look like, and what does it not look like? Same for an elemental? Should a fire elemental be made out of pure fire? Or should it be more substantial, like lava rock? Should it have a liquid body of molten rock/metal? Maybe it's made out of crystals? What shape should it be? How tall should it be? Should it walk, or float magically? Yes there can certanly be variations. But Ulquiorra makes valid point and point being, if that picture from updates didnt say it depicts trolls, you would not have guessed it was a troll. Sure we speak of mythological creature that has undergone some cosmetic changes enetering realm of high fantasy. Still there is certain element to mythology that binds all other design variations together. There has been some screenshots posted already in this thread. I have already seen few EXTREMLY flawed designs from some games and movies...at least in my opinion. Take fable and huntsman example...Fable troll could more easily be called earth elemental and in huntsmen abomination beast that is covered in mossy. Dont get me on Skyrim 3eyed ape abominations that are called trolls for some reason. There is this recent trend to make trolls simply "mindless" nature aspected (at least partially in appereance) beastly abominations. What about some inspiration from original folklore? Even Tolkien, the grand daddy of high fantasy, didnt depict them completly unintelligent and at least preserved one of few original folklore stories; that protagonist saves his hide by negotiating his way through encounter (Hobbit) What is wrong if there is diff approach to trolls? Why cant they have their own communities, go to work? (traditionally quarry/mining) ...ok so folklore say they shun sunlight, doesnt mean they are all inherently evil. Owl is mostly nocturnal creature and yet has been symbol/idol for knowledge/wisdom.

I love that oil painting concept art approach. So mesmerising beautifull. I cant wait until I get my book. Armor and weapons are shaping nicly. It is very realistic/belivable, I was worried for awhile, but now, just epiC! Some of it looks like ornament armor, but guess that is some fancy loot or customised. Hope that some heavy armor can be heavy chainmail with scales over it. Plz share more with us. You guys are delivering and your art team deserves praise! I am starting to love PE world by the looks of it, it ours world but somewhat alien, no uber shoulderpads, extravagant chainmail bikinis (although I am not against it if it fits story, some eccentric rich noblewoman/sorceress) If anything you are keeping your end of the bargain by the looks so far, have some fun with cliche here and there! :D As for spell effects..love it...pretty, pretty... Some stuff could be toned down, but that is individual. So I hope you guys add some sort of slider in options for magic effects. Personally I loved effects, maybe those "magic missiles" need to be toned down, so hence a slider. Also what I think it would be cool is if some spell effects could only be seen by arcane users themselfs. That Globe for example could be toned down and whn its hit, unless one is arcane user he/she would see only "ripples" where globe has been struck. If there is some sort of magic missiles, it would be nice if we could cast individuall missiles to our choosing. I missed in BG whn certain spell would increase in power/lvl like magic missiles, flaming arrow and melf acid arrow, we could not choose to cast those at diff targets or choose just one. Especially if going solo and being attacked by pack of gibberlings, mostly one magic missile is needed. Also whn I am saying to tone certain effects, that lightning should do VERY HIGH damage. A tazer carries a punch and stuns and there is faint blueish light. That lightning should fry!!! Especially if target is armored in metal. Well that is some of my thoughts. It starts to look PRETTY PRETTY! Plz share some more art and screenshots of ingame encounters and battles. So we can get back with feedback or just have healthy rant and ventilate our thoughts, even if they are not all coherent :D

It is great, I just dont like trolls. Dont get me wrong, those creatures look great designed, just not very much trollish to me. For that matter I didnt like Fearun Trolls either. Most games ruined them. I am more of traditionalist whn it comes to troll appereances. Like scandinavian folktales. I dont kow why designers are trying reinventing the wheel. Anyway. Areas are shaping out great,

I thought all that has been said relative to OP was said on first few pages.

You'll need more than 4.1 million dollar budget to achieve that. First or second sentence?

If Project Eternity has any 3D sequels, I hope they will all have option to be played isometric. I agree with you that spells need "fatality" , this is 2013 after all. We all want to see petrified, pulverised and smoookeen enemies!

LOL, this poll and suddenly tons of new members, 1 post. For a vote. Gotta give it to you, www solidarity. I guess this poll is really meant for people that english is not first language...being one of them i personally prefer english, i dont master english language but still... I am Bosnian living in Norway, if I try to recreate any fanatsy movie scene or game event in either one language, it only sounds as satire or parody. I go for Chinise or Japanise language pack or translation. Reasons are my own. Baby steps to victory, hehe.

I acually thought high lvl items made lot of sense. Past lvl 20 and you are playing at 'demigod' lvl. Maybe. Don't know how much sense there was in every enemy droppin +4 or +5 gear. I just don't like it. "Ohh..another +5 sword" *throws it on a pile and moves on, not even bothering to sell it* Such overabdundance of super-magical items ruins the "magic" of it. I still remeber BG1, where every magical item was a great find and even a normal, good-quality sword wasn't worthless and oyu coudl compelte thegame with it. I can see why you dont like it, but considering context of the story, it makes alot of sense. Enemies you are fighting are demonic legions (immunity to normal weapons up to +3) planewalkers assasins and mercenaries, small armies of fanatic followers for wanna be ascendants to godhood and they all are fighting themself aswell. Gods cant partake directly so they send their own minions, etc. You dont walk throug nine hells with +1 stick and get to tell story about it. ( exception to Elminster maybe) It is comparing two extremes.You would have disliked if legions of flaming fist was at your heels and all you have to do is cast deathspell or two aaand just in case summon pitfiend to mopup the floor..pitfiend is maybe tad too much :D (wiz perspective). Personally BG1 is my all time favorit not just for how even magical world seemed 'real' but it was revolutionary game compared to what was out at the time. So that impression sticks with you long, that awsome sense of wonder. Playing BG was like having constant feeling of 'epiphany' , sort of...a true nerdgasm. After BG2 , some mystery is gone. ToB is simply endgame, not much of 'material', aka loot really matters that much, there is no point to gold now whn your character is at doorstep of ascendancy to godhood. As if 100 or lets say few hundred epic or legendary items really matters, unless you have a small army to equip :D I just think most people dont like that game was over haha.

Do you have to wear it on a finger? Its a ring yes, but for magic to work is it touch based, on your skin...how does the ring now its a finger? Just put them all on a chain and around your neck. Close to skin...oh the possibilities, the power! No longer limited by power of '2'... sure you do appear like some sort of robed pimp..but hey, you get to say YO BITCHES and than pulverise all around you. Sweet...yes...ten fingers 10 rings and there can be more than 1 per finger yees It could be interesting if the ring doesnt fit...we could fashion it into something else without loosing enchantment. Crafting.