Jediphile

Season one began the fall of 2001. I don't recall if it was before or after 9/11, but obviously many episodes had already been shot by then, and the plot was pretty fixed already. The first season was much more of a personal vendetta and political intrigue plot than the mass attacks on Los Angeles of the subsequent seasons, and the fact that this was all after 9/11 could be a motive for that. Season 2 was also notably harsher in its tone, when you consider how Sayed Ali tortured Kate Warner, how Jack later appeared to have killed Ali's family to extort him, and how Jack actually died at one point. With all the people being killed on the show these days, I'd sort of wish that season 6 was set anywhere else but CTU in Los Angeles...

pc, for reasons stated

Speaking of the show's tone, does anyone think 24's mood has been heavily influenced by the fact that we live in a post-9/11 world? I mean, season one was actually fairly undramatic or harsh compared to some of the stuff we've seen since. The most horrible thing was doubtlessly Teri's death, and that was caused by the fact that it was suddenly decided that the characters would return (it was orignally intended that there would be new characters every year... until Kiefer won an Emmy, that is ) But we've seen some pretty nasty things since then. Jack actually died in season two, and Mason eradiated so much he could have been a christmas tree, if he had lived more than a few hours more. In the third season several people were brutally murdered by the virus, and Jack had to play russian roulette and later amputate Chase's hand. He also brutally murdered Nina out of pure cold vengeance, when she no longer served a purpose to him. But the worst was Jack having to perform an execution on Chapelle, because the terrorists demanded it. Nasty! In the fourth season, we didn't actually see so many horrible deaths among the crew. Then again, most of them were all new, so we were not so attached them them, though I really thought they would kill off Chloe at one poitn. The really grim part was when Jack killed Paul to save the life of a terrorist, so he could extract information from him. Paul was a total innocent in the whole thing, and was wounded in the first place for taking a bullit for Jack. Some gratitude... Now, this is a lot different from the first season, isn't it? I don't think we'd have seen scenes like the deaths of Paul Raines or Chapelle in a pre-9/11 world, but somehow it's okay now that the tone of even tv-shows is much harsher than before. I think 24 is a prime example of that and it is even visible if we compare the first season with all those that followed.

First, the closest you get to the Exile's companions rebuilding the order is actually in the game during Kreia's predictions for the future. Kreia: "You travel with them for so long, yet you do not know them still. Feel them through the Force, feel what they feel, hear their thoughts and know them, as I fought to know you.They were the Lost Jedi, you know. The true Jedi, upon which the future will be built. They simply needed a leader, and a teacher." But Kreia is characteristically vague, and so there is doubt what we can infer from those comments. Second, I think saying that Revan must be stronger because he was further back in history is, well, not a very compelling argument. And even if that was to be considered a valid argument, Luke has access to holocrons all the way back from Ossus, which predates Revan, so he could certainly have learned far more than Revan ever did. Besides, plausibility seems to suggest that argument is flawed. Throughout history knowledge and skill tend to grow and expand, not regress. I see no reason why that isn't just as likely to be true for jedi and sith as for anyone else. On the contrary, their constant war of light vs. dark would rather suggest that they have to continually grow more powerful or else be wiped out by their eternal enemies.

Yeah, like I said, season 3 was slow early on. And you're right that some of the B-plots were a bit weak. I mean, if that's all they were going to do with the Palmer-plot, then they should just have cut it - Palmer had plenty on his plate even so. Didn't really dislike Chase. Didn't really like him either, though - I mean, he liked Kim, didn't he? But the virus bit was top-notch - very dramatic. I guess that's why they've sort of returned to it in the new season... One thing that I really hated in season 4 was how the Araz-family was just casually killed off one by one without serving any particular purpose in the plot. And Behruz (sp?) wasn't so much killed as just forgotten - he was turned over to the terrorists, and then we just never see him again. What, did they kill him or where did he go? The end was indeed a bucket of icewater right in our faces, though. Though it was pretty lame to suggest even for an instant that Jack was dead, when the whole thing was clearly staged, it was still rather shocking to see him being officially dead for all his efforts. Even so, I found the beginning of season 5 even more shocking - even though Dennis Haysbert and Reiko Aylesworth were in there, they still brutally killed Palmer and Michelle in short order. I was particularly shocked by Michelle's abrupt death... That sucked. Never realized how much I really liked that character until that car bomb went off...

So certain are you... Always with you what can not be done...

Well, I guess I'm just going to be really contrary and not care what consensus says Season 3 may have started out slow, but once the virus began breaking out, the plot really picked up and resulted in some episodes I consider to be among the most dramatic on the show. Not sure why, but season 4 wasn't quite as unnerving to me, perhaps because I found the whole nuclear overrride plot a bit stretched. What, they can't manually control their nuclear reactors? Give me a break... I also didn't like that the "trial" of the secretary of defense was just a front for a bigger plot. Yeah, right... Aw, I guess I'll just have to admit that it was difficult seeing Arnold Vasloo as a villain other than the Mummy...

Actually, I agree with that...

Fair warning - you have to watch an entire season at a time. Each season is one continued story all the way through, and though there are recaps at the beginning of each "hour", I don't think they do much to explain the plots, which are frequently rather complex and extensive. The seasons also build heavily on previous events, so it's best to start at the beginning, though I actually counts seasons 2 and 3 as better than the first.

Well, you're entirely wrong, but I think you're drawing incorrect conclusions from the initial use of the MSG. The MSG doesn't really affect the force, at least not directly. No, it was the death and destruction that it caused that put in the Exile in a state of mind that made him cut himself off from the force and create the force wound. That his anguish was indirectly caused by the destruction caused by the MSG is incidental, at least as far as I can tell.

Sorry for reviving this topic, but is it just me, or has 24 become a complete snuff-show? I mean, people have been dropping like flies - 3 major characters dead in two episodes. That's pretty grim.

Actually, that's only half true. Kreia didn't want to destroy the Force, Darth Traya did. Kreia was simply the guise that Darth Traya took on while she was teaching the Exile, as Traya is ever the mistress of deciet and betrayal. Kreia admits herself indirectly that Kreia is stronger than Darth Traya because Traya serves only the Darkside, whereas Kreia understands that neither good nor evil holds all of the answers. Kreia understands that the true answers come from within one's self, while Darth Traya doesn't. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Huh? Kreia=Darth Traya! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> No- Kreia later takes on the role of Darth Traya. Traya was always and will always be there so she isn't directly tied to Kreia at all. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Be that as it may, there is only ever one Traya in KotOR2.

"Is the dark side stronger?" "No. Quicker. Easier. More seductive..."

remote was going to carry out Bao-Dur's order to reactivate the Mass Shadow Generator, which would have destroyed Malachor V. GOTO didn't want that to happen for the reasons mentioned in my post above.

The option in the conversation path should come automatically once you've gained enough influence with him. He may think highly of you, but you probably need just a little more yet.

Well, I liked the season finale. I liked the jump forward in time, because it meant that the characters were growing. It made sense that people would settle down and try to get back to their lives. You could argue that they should have known the cylons were coming, but that's just because we know there would be no show without the cylons. It made perfect sense to me that people - desperate from running from their lives - grabbed the first chance at making new lives for themselves. And with no cylon attacks or even sightings for an entire year, it's not unreasonable for them to become complacent, particularly when the world is as inhospitable and back-breaking as here.

People would laugh at him instead of fear him. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Better not let the Lord Darth JarJar hear that... He was a potential apprentice, you know... :cool:

There's already a Hutt Jedi in EU. His name is Beldorian Oh, and there was also a Wookiee jedi master named Tyvokka

Well, that's why the boards are there - so people can bitch and moan all they want to without other people having to listen to it all if they don't want to.

I think many of us do. If not because Revan is cool, then simply because he was hinted at all through the plot of KotOR2 without ever making a true appearance. If they had written him out completely, that would have been one thing, but to infer his appearance just around the corner repeatedly is a teaser that must lead to meeting Revan again. Well, we all are... I mean, we're here talking about a game that is still vaporware, aren't we? :D

GOTO: "Touching. The probability of the Iridonian installing triggered commands within your core was high; I see the probabilities have played out.Of course, the probability that I would do the same is equally high. Your inability to move right now is evidence of that. If the General issues the command, only I will be here to receive it.You must understand that the General would not wish the relics or the Sith strength here on Malachor to be compromised. Their presence is needed to stabilize the galaxy.Without them, the galaxy would be reduced to anarchy within years. And if there is anything I can't stand, it's an untidy galaxy.So, let us wait here, you and I, for the General's orders, and the fate of the galaxy shall wait with us."

Wow - God gets all the credit and glory and none of the blame or responsibility... Look, if you really want to discuss religion, then fine. I can even accept that you do it in relation to Star Wars, but the place to do it on this forum is on the Way-Off Topic board under the subject "Star Wars and religion" or some such, not on the general forum for the game itself. And drop the missionary attitude and the preaching - few people here like being moralized to, and you can't blame them for it, when you refuse to meet them on equal grounds. Besides... Off-topic this is. Off-topic comments lead to spam. Spam leads to derailment. Derailment... leads to lockdown!

The Exile is desinted to bring about the rebirth of the Jedi Order?!? That's the first I hear of it... Revan (if LS) and Bastila seem to be just as likely candidates. The Exile could be instrumental in bringing a new order about, but we don't even know how many other masters are still in hiding (Nomi is probably one), and an exiled jedi who is a wound in the force doesn't seem to make for the best of founders. That force wound has to be resolved first, before that is likely to happen. On what basis? Revan may have been powerful in his time, but he still didn't see Malak's betrayal, wasn't able to resist the masters reprogramming his mind, couldn't resist the dark side, etc... People really need to consider the New Jedi Order novels or at least read up on Luke's later life before they pass judgment on his abilities - he became far stronger than Anakin/Vader or Revan ever did. And before people say they hate the EU and don't accept it, bear in mind that KotOR is EU also.

Actually, that's only half true. Kreia didn't want to destroy the Force, Darth Traya did. Kreia was simply the guise that Darth Traya took on while she was teaching the Exile, as Traya is ever the mistress of deciet and betrayal. Kreia admits herself indirectly that Kreia is stronger than Darth Traya because Traya serves only the Darkside, whereas Kreia understands that neither good nor evil holds all of the answers. Kreia understands that the true answers come from within one's self, while Darth Traya doesn't. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Huh? Kreia=Darth Traya!

You just made the black list....