Jediphile

Well, Han also used Luke's lightsaber in "Empire Strikes Back" without losing any limbs... EDIT: Oh, and Orman Tagge also used a lightsaber in a duel with Luke in the old Marvel comics, even though he clearly wasn't a force-user. He lost, but he didn't lose any limbs.

Yes, and Chloe hasn't cracked it yet... :D

My only problem with Vandar was that we're consistently told that he's dead. I have no problem with a little green (or whatever color) Yoda-species guy. In fact, I'd welcome one as a companion who has the emerging wisdom of Yoda or Vandar, but is a bit younger and not quite so experienced. That could be fun. Just what is this species that Yoda, Vandar, and Yaddle belong to? Hmmm, is it just me or have we never seen what jawas really look like......

Actually, I thought pointing the finger at Audrey was a little cheesy - that's just too silly to even contemplate, especially since she was the one to give Jack the clues to it at the beginning of the episode. Even if I thought she was guilty, would she have done that, if she knew it could lead back to her? So I think this is just the writers playing towards the Nina Meyers/femme fatale-syndrome, which is just old and disappointing. The only way it "could be Audrey" is if someone stole her identity to cover his or her own tracks (note that Collette actually never describes what "Audrey" looks like - it's just a name to her, and she might never had met her), or else Audrey was somehow tricked or ordered into passing this information along without knowing what it was for. So I find that plot boring and uninteresting. I'm far more interested in seeing what Wayne Palmer has discovered. Given how the episode turned out, I should probably have put his name in the poll too... Question is, who ordered the hit on him? I can't for a minute suspect Pierce, but Gardner seemed to know too, so maybe he's the mastermind. He could certainly have framed Audrey as well...

You can kill Visas, actually.

Well, Wookieepedia is here. As for the cut content, it's a matter of going throught the text used in the game, which can be a bit of trouble. I recommend searching the text with key words. As for getting to the text, all text, dialogue or otherwise and cut or not, is in the dialog.tlk file of the game folder. To access it, open your Notepad, then open a file. Find your way to your KotOR folder and change the filetype to "all files", then doubleclick the dialog.tlk file. It may take a few moments before the machine responds, since it's a huge file, but once it does, you can read through all text in the game.

Okay, but I don't understand what the topic is - what are we supposed to answer yes or no to?

I doubt that, since I always got the same ending the first time around, no matter whether I decided to kill her or listen to her and attempt redemption. Besides, killing the masters gives you Force Crush (a DS power), whereas accepting their judgement (and then having Kreia interrupt) gives you Enlightenment (a LS power). The distinction there could have some effect on the final outcome.

On the radiation of M4-78, this is directly from the dialog.tlk file for K2 and seems to contain stuff that Vash was supposed to tell the Exile when you find her: "It is a normal occurrence between Master and Padawan. Kaah and I are bonded.It is a normal occurrence between Master and Padawan. Kaah and I were bonded.Most of the Jedi have scattered. Anytime the Jedi tried to assemble, they were massacred by the Sith. We had no idea where the attacks were coming from.{smiles}I dislike passivity. Much like another Jedi I know. With the Council's support, I decided to take the fight to the Sith.You should consider what it means to be a Jedi.{slightly sadly}This victory here is all I can claim, and it was Kaah's expertise, not mine, that brought it. The source of the Sith remains unknown to me.I know. I felt it.He is well, but shaken by his experience.Yes, as many Masters and Padawans become with time.The bond can be broken in many ways. If one falls to the Dark Side, the bond may fade and eventually break. This is why, when gripped with fear, Kaah was unable to feel our bond. He assumed I was dead.He is dead. We were mentally bonded.Kaah was pulled to the Dark Side through his fear. He could no longer feel our bond.It is painful to lose one to whom you are bonded. But it is not fatal.{concerned}That is most unnatural. This bond you share with Kreia is not like any I've ever heard of. How did it come to be?{pensive}Look within for the answer. We are each solely accountable for everything in our lives. Nothing ever happens to us unless we allow it.Indirectly, one could say that you brought me here.I learned that a group of Sith came here seeking the one they call the Last Jedi - you. Kaah and I arrived to investigate the situation.We learned that the Sith pretended to be this planet's colonists and began utilizing its resources and industrial power. We could not allow them to create a base here.Kaah is a virtuoso with computers. He managed to slice into the system and flood the Industrial Zone with radiation.The Sith attacked our position before he had finished. I held off the Sith, but they overwhelmed me. When I regained consciousness, I was in this chamber.M4-78 tells me that the guardian droid of the Central Zone placed me here." That seems to explain it all nicely.

Agreed. Wikipedia allows stuff like "Nihilus might have been a prisoner of the Mandalorians", when all it says in the game is that he "escaped imprisonment" on Malachor V by bringing the Ravager to him with his powers. Wookieepedia usually has it right. At least, I haven't found any glaring mistakes so far.

It's basically a question of of building influence with them either through conversation or by having them in the group to watch your actions. Some like DS actions, some LS, and for some it just depends on how you justify your actions. Once you've built enough, the option to turn them into jedi usually comes around automatically. For a complete spoiler on it all, look at this handy Influence Guide - but be warned, it is a COMPLETE Spoiler!!

"You've left me an opening!"

Well, some of the endings do allow for deaths. For example, in DS you can have either Atton vs. Disciple (female Exile) or Handmaiden vs. Visas (male Exile), but there are loads of other stuff in there. A lot of it is just cut plots, like the HK-factory or the stuff with the Genoharadan trying to kill the Exile. That's all neither dark nor light side. And some of the endings will be LS too, IIRC. There is one scene where most the companions try to confront Kreia and are taken captive, for example. Another is with Atton sacrificing himself to save the female Exile during a fight with Sion (which I guess mirrors the possibility of killing Visas during the fight with Nihilus). But rather than me trying to remember it all (and probably failing horribly), you're much better off going to Team Gizka's site and getting an idea for yourself. I'd suggest you look at the progress reports to get a rough estimate, perhaps even looking at the "current build", which leads to a topic on their own boards listing what they intend to do.

I think the short answer is no. I definitely remember some of us wondering whether Nihilus would be less of a wuss after the restoration, and someone (Dashus?) told us that they were only restoring the cut stuff, not rescaling the difficulty levels and so.

Force ghosts are not unheard of in the KotOR era. We even saw Ajunta Pall's force ghost in K1, so that's no problem. It's true that this was a lost power by the movies-era, but note that KotOR is set in the distant past - almost 4000 years before, when the knowledge would still be known. Darth Bane is part of the Jedi vs. Sith plot (brrr...) so this is way before his time. No, I'll still voice support for the ideas I've posted before - I want to play a jedi padawan who begins on Coruscant. Revan and Exile I'd both set to DS. This is in part due to how the Exile met Revan and himself in the tomb on Korriban in K2 (after seeing Malak recruit jedi for the Mandaloran Wars and himself leading an attack on Dxun, i.e., the past, and confronting all his companions, i.e., the present), and the visions both had dark side mastery. But you should go to the unknown regions and find Revan and Exile, yes. I want to see Ziost too, for example.

There is an alternate Dark Side ending, but it isn't all that different. It's unclear when exactly you make your LS/DS choice, but if I were to venture a guess, I'd say it depends on how you respond the meeting with the jedi masters (do you kill them or accept their ruling...) The reason why the companions all seem to just vanish from the plot is that Lucasarts pushed the deadline, which forced Obsidian to cut a lot of stuff from the game, including all the resolutions for the companions and a bunch of other stuff. It all became the infamous cut content, which you can find numerous references to. Fortunately, a group is restoring the cut content, so that we might play it one day. Look at this topic and follow the links to their site. The restoration project seems to be coming along nicely.

Yeah, I voted for Handmaiden too. Not because I particularly dislike the Disciple, but because I find Handmaiden to be a far more interesting character...

Not Battle Precognition, no, but you do get a bonus - you can meditate with him and restore your force points. When I played DS female Exile, I used to have Disciple and Kreia with me - Kreia for the bonus xp and Disciple to restore my force points. And while he may not have the Handmaiden ferocity in combat, he can still unleash a lot of force powers as a consular. I never saw him as useless in combat. I guess it's just a bit of a goody-goody who preaches ethics and morality all the time that people don't like him. I found him a bit annoying for that reason myself, but it's no big problem - I just didn't talk to him, which pretty much solved the problem.

Well, they already did kill the black guy first, since Palmer was the first to go this year... Still, he's the only one to die so far IIRC... So if you're right, the future could be short and grim for Curtis Manning... I think he's the only black guy left on the show, unless we count Wayne Palmer as well.

ok then how do you kill kreia at the end beating her down in the first part is easy but then she throws up 3 litesabers which is impossible to get past any clues? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> LOL, 3 lightsabres not impossible! I just mellee them down myself honestly using heals when needed but you can also lay down mines prior to the fight with kreia, the lightsabres will take damage from the mines as they move over them. Weird hearing someone say this fight imppossible, it was much easier then Star Forge fight with Malak was (which was also easy once you understood to destroy the pods holding the dead jedi). BTW: Just for arguement sake, you didnt have to kill Zal (wookie) in K1 as Darth Revan. You could take the far more evil route and have Zal kill Mission for you (one of the truely good dark side moments of K1). Having Zal doing it was far more evil then just approaching game as hack and slash and killing both Mission and Zal. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Yeah, the fight with Kreia is a cake-walk. If you're having trouble (I was a sentinel/jedi master), then run around a bit (there is some treasure in the alcoves that you might as well pick up if you're running) until the sabers begin losing track of you. Kreia will completely ignore you and not move. Now heal up, then buff up and slowly approach one saber. When it notices you, stop moving and let it come to you alone. Then slash it to pieces (easy) and heal up again if necessary. Then buff up again. Repeat for the other two sabers. Once they're gone, heal and buff up, then make a run at Kreia and slash her all you can. You should be able to take her out, especially since you can heal and she cannot. Use Force Immunity, though, since the old hag loves using force powers. Using this hit-and-run tactic, taking down Kreia should be very easy. Note on Zaalbar in K1: Yes, you can get Zaalbar to kill Mission (and yes, that is quite evil!), but if you do, when you go to the StarForge and have Zaalbar in the group, he will be angry for your deception and try to kill you, giving you no other choice than killing him as well. I actually didn't know this for a long time, because my evil Revan left Zaalbar on the ship, but I've tried it since, and it's quite true - Zaalbar will give you no choice, if you bring him along. You can walk back to the Ebon Hawk and get another crewmember to replace him after he's dead, though (I usually use Canderous or possible HK-47 next to Bastila on the StarForge when I'm DS).

Just for the record - the Expanded Universe (EU) is still canon. It's not like it's something done in addition to the movies that is not "real" or "accepted" Star Wars (unlike Star Trek novels, comics, games, etc.). George Lucas and Lucasarts consider all the EU stuff part of the established and true Star Wars universe. The New Jedi Order stuff is all approved by GL, including that... sad event in "Vector Prime"... The only except are many of the stories in the Star Wars Tales comic, though that's just because some of it is meant to be silly and make fun of Star Wars. I do believe "Splinter of the Mind's Eye" also falls outside canon due to some continuity trouble...

Well, the d20 origin of alignments is from D&D, where they are indeed a measure of morality only. Anyone who has played (A)D&D for a few years can confirm this, and since I've been playing on and off for close to two decades now, it's all second nature by now, silly as it is. On the Jedi/Sith scale Jolee may be more neutral, because he doesn't want to fight in the eternal conflict between the two extremes. However, as you've shown yourself, on a scale of morality, he is probably just as much "good" as most jedi in the group. Maybe even more so, since he is the only jedi in the group to never fall to the dark side in spite of having left the order...

There was also supposed to be more potential deaths in the content that was cut from the game, including a showdown between either Handmaiden vs. Visas (for male characters) and Disciple vs. Atton (for female), though only if you were dark side. Another possibility was Atton dying after a fight with Sion. There has been some speculation that Bao-Dur should have died during the game. According to Wikipedia Bao-Dur was also to die at some point, and the GOTO vs. Remote bit was to have a LS ending, where HK-47 kills GOTO. I do believe there was also be the possibility of death for Mandalore on the Ravager, but that was cut too. We might see a lot of the above once the Restoration Project is finished, though (except Bao-Dur's death, if it's really on M4-78). You can definitely kill Visas during the confrontation with Nihilus - I've tried that myself. It's worth watching once, even if I do always reload...

Didn't know about the dead colonists, but even if that is true, that doesn't have to mean she turned evil, since that could have happened inadvertently as an accident. Still, this comment sheds some light on the matter: "Our last instructions from our masters were to prevent any from reaching the Industrial Core.Our colonists, the Sith, were our masters. We droids were sent to colonize M4-78 many years ago. Only recently did the Sith arrive to claim the planet. Unfortunately, a saboteur recently killed them all.This is the colony M4-78. We droids arrived on this world years ago and began to prepare this world for colonization. The resources here are especially abundant and we were able to expand rapidly across the entire planet.Our colonists finally arrived here a couple years ago. They began building a droid army and were forced to shut down M4-78 to conserve energy.M4-78 is the name of the droid intelligence that governs the planet. When the Sith arrived, he was no longer necessary and was shut down." Besides, there is definitely a comment in there about her padawan turning to the dark side and then thinking she was dead, because he lost his force bond to her when that happened. That was a the basis of much discussion about the Exile's own force bond with Kreia at one point. Someone even pointed out on that basis, that the Exile would therefore have lost his force bond with Kreia before reaching Malachor V because Kreia resumed her position as Darth Traya at that point (but that's another discussion entirely). So, if the Sith were in charge of M4-78, that might explain some things, especially if Kaah thought Vash was killed and then, turning to the dark side and thus losing his bond with her (and therefore remaining unaware that she was actually alive), killed the Sith colonists out of revenge.

Yes, but I actually see that as an example of why you cannot gauge a character's political faction by his alignment in that system. Jolee left because they forgave him, while he couldn't himself. Jolee: "I had trained Nayama against their wishes. I had failed to kill her when I had the chance, and she went on to kill others.It was a travesty, of course. I told you that even the Jedi were capable of great injustices, didn't I?But I deserved to be tried. They found me innocent.Even though I... deserved every punishment and more... they let me go. Mitigating circumstances, they said. I deserved compassion, they said.That... that was when the Jedi left me. That was when they failed me.They may have been able to forgive me. I... could never forgive myself." Is this an indication that he has a lesser ethical standard that the jedi order? I'd say it is more likely to indicate the opposite - he left because they failed to live up to his own standard. It's similar to people atheists who don't go to church of follow the bible, but still consider what is preached not out of some fear of what punishment they might receive in the afterlife, but simply because their ethics and conscience bid them to do so. True. The thing about Jolee is that he doesn't care so much for the rules, but as you've just demonstrated, he clearly considers things on a moral basis. He's fine with you using your mind-affecting force powers to avoid paying a landing fee for the Ebon Hawk, because it really doesn't matter much on the greater scale of things, but he cannot just blindly accept that a guilty man go free without speaking out against it, even if he has to accept it in the end as the lesser evil that must be accepted to serve the greater good. Alignment is a measure of a character's moral and ethical standards only. Since the Sith follow a code that usually embraces evil acts and the jedi order preaches morality and "good" acts, it will usually look like jedi=good, sith=evil, and other=neutral. But that's just on the surface of things. Atris turned evil, but was she actually a sith? Not according to herself. And she wasn't one of "The Sith Lords" of the game's title either. The "jedi=good / sith=evil" perspective only works if you look at the matter in a very superficial way - once you look carefully at it, that perspective doesn't work because it's too simplistic to describe complex characters. Well, we really shouldn't discuss alignments. They are always problematic in (A)D&D and always will be (my own P&P game got much easier after I outlawed them for the players - I use alignments as a GM for the PCs and NPCs, but only as a GM's tool). KotOR thankfully outlawed them in the games as well, which is a good thing, because it saves us a lot of headaches.