Jediphile

It seems pretty obvious that the Exile will go and help Revan whether you're jedi or sith... That's due to cut content. Visas, Atton, Handmaiden/Disciple and Mira were all going to confront Kreia in the end only to have their rears kicked and be captured. We'll be seeing all that once Team Gizka finish the Restoration Project, I guess... Well, we know from Kreia's predictions and general comments at the end hat the Exile must go alone, just as Revan did...

Well, I can only say that I had spectacular results with the sentinel/jedi master combination. Not as tough as a weapon master, perhaps, but I could still slice the enemies to pieces without trouble... And you know you're powerful when (in the Trayus Academy) just enter a room, force push everybody, then do a couple of force storms until they're dead. Anyone still standing? Repeat... :D Yes, I know - Force Storm is DS, but with my rate of replenishing force points, I could pretty much use any force power I cared to in any battle - my force replenished so fast, that it was never an issue... Oh, and as jedi master, I could give HK-47 light side master :D

The jedi are a dying breed in the K2 chapter of Star Wars, so you could look at it this way: Do the jedi deserve to die out because Atton did some horrible things in the past? As for redemption, I don't quite agree with you. Atton does repent, but he can never admit that to the Exile or any other jedi. He thinks of jedi as fairly arrogant, though not as evil as the sith, and he has good reason to. Finally, the jedi he killed gave her life to save his. She saw his potential and wanted him to live, despite what he had done to her. If she will not condemn him, how can we? Should her sacrifice and her wishes be in vain, just because the Exile is horrified by Atton's past?

Yeah... If that had been true, it would have been a nightmare - it would have been the entire K2 situation all over again... The bad thing about it is that it still could be, anyway

Well, it says .de, so it would be, wouldn't it - that's the code for Germany, so it's scarcely surprising that the entire site is in german.

The scene itself was essentially already done in the dialog; it was just a matter of scripting it. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I've read the dialogue in the dialog.tlk file, but I'm still really confused about what really was going on, even when I compared it to the sound files... I guess a part of the problem lies with HK-47, HK-50s, and HK-51s all sounding exactly the same. Did the scripts shed any light on this?

That was padawan-Luke, i.e., Luke from ancient history. Luke has become far more powerful since then. Even Revan was a padawan once, and clearly wasn't by the end of K1. If you want to have a fair comparison to the level 20 Revan, then you have to look at Luke in the New Jedi Order series... Which means Luke will kick Revan's rear all the way to a period a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away...

Just wondered what sort of companions prefer in a potential KotOR3? Do we want a rehash of characters from the previous games or all new characters? I tend to prefer a mixture, actually. I'd like a few completely new companions, but I'd also like characters from the previous games. Certainly T3 and HK-47 should be there as companions, but I could also see other old companions joining in, though only temporarily. For example, you could meet Mission and Zaalbar (if Revan was LS) on one planet and have them join the party, but only while you're on the planet they're active on - they won't travel with you. On another planet you could meet Jolee or Atton in a similar manner. Any thoughts?

Well, I guess you would know...

quite possibly....my point is the devs are always choosing between flexibility and strength of story....sometimes it's OK to choose strength of story. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I agree. I also wouldn't be surprised if Dustil Onasi makes it in Kotor III. Perhaps even as a party member. You could kill him yes, but then T3-M4's hologram shows Carth if Revan was DS female and plays a dialogue in which you must have got the romance quest with Carth and that he did try to save DSF Revan which is only possible if you have let Dustil alive. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Well, Dustil wasn't killed by K2, at least - he might have been planned to end up in a bad place in K2, but that was actually dropped so early that there aren't even any voice-files for it. So we can't call it cut content as much as a dropped idea. As for how he ended up in K1, he too falls into the category of people - like Vandar, Atris, or companions like Jolee, Juhani, Mission, Zaalbar, Mira, Hanharr, etc. that may or may not have survived their games - that it is simply easier for a storywriter to drop, since their status is at best in question. It's much more convenient to just create new characters that serve the same purpose, since that won't annoy any of the players. Even now, we have people who set Revan to DS complaining over how the Star Forge was abandoned and similar. People want their own outcome of the previous game(s) to be the "correct" passage of history, and if you mess with that you lose customers. It's that simple. Yes, story should always take priority, but I doubt we'll be seeing either Dustil or Atris again, since one didn't impact the story enough to matter and the other already had closure...

You can call those rules silly, if you want. And naturally not all GMs played strictly by the book. I didn't. But that did not mean that I just ignored "the book". The campaign worlds were all written by that book. To just ignore it was to ignore the tradition that the game grew from in the first place. I've read Forgotten Realms stories, where the dwarven inability to be wizards was a central focuspoint of the entire plot. The reason for there being no dwarven wizards is usually that dwarves are themselves inherently resistant to magic (note the massive amounts of bonus modifiers dwarves can get against magic in general in 2e), but the trade-off was that they then couldn't learn wizard magic either. Always made sense to me, and stories like what I mention above are violently gutted and slashed, when a new standard is applied broadly and forced across the board. Mystara doesn't have the any race/any class approach either, and everything that was written for it was based on that principle. Why can't non-humans be paladins? Because paladin-status is granted by a god, and that god will only chooses the best humanity has to offer as his/her champions. The gods of other races do not have the same tradition. Not just any god can randomly choose to have paladins (should Baal or Thanatos have paladins?) - only a few gods do, and then might not look at non-humans for their champions. I might overrule that as a GM (if, for example, an elf was raised by human in that god's faith), but I will not throw away the few priviledges that humans have without a good dose of consideration, and even if I do, I prefer to do it on a case-by-case basis. I might let you play that half-dragon wizard this time, but don't count on it the next time you roll up a character. Similarly, I might demand lower stats for a paladin in 2e, if I prefer to have paladins in the campaign. If the rules are strict, then it's much easier for me as a GM to loosen the reins than it is for me to tighten the grip, of the rules are loosely structured.

I don't want it all to be the same, but I got used to the D&D flavor, and they don't make it like they used to anymore... I posted the link in the bit you text that you conveniently snipped in your last post... But here it is again, since you apparently missed it... No, it's more - it's an attempt to create an industry-wide standard. Well, some of us remember all the way back to the mid-80s or earlier when D&D was a very advanced game that allowed you to do loads of stuff. Why could D&D now grow as an RPG while we grew as role-players? I admit that TSR slowed the progress down, but WOTC killed it! They also polluted the foundation with these new rules. There were never dwarf wizards or any sorcerors in D&D before 3e. They simply didn't exist, and all the campaigns and the books and games that followed were written on that basis. But then WOTC suddenly decide to completely rewrite the core with no regard for the established traditions. Now, if you never played D&D before 3e, then this is a problem, but for those of us who played D&D before, we can choose between our campaigns or 3e. I choose the former - I will not be dictated to by some stupid new rules that seem to make it a priority to invalidate my game and is even incredibly inflexible and rigid to boot!! That being the case, just what is my incentive to use these new rules?!? :angry:

Hmmm, a Bothan spy or slicer (or both) would actually be good. Still, I'd really like to see Neti... on Myrkr.

it is actually extremely easy to do...of course, you can always reload the game. bottom line: not every outcome is respected, nor should it be in every case. just more evidence that the storytellers are GOING to tell THEIR story. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> It really didn't impact the story much - or at all - which is what really threw me. I mean, they could have simply chosen not to let Kreia mention it, and nobody would have said anything. I certainly wouldn't have raised an eyebrow, whereas having her mention it did. It would have made far more sense to mention that Revan brought down the sith academy by killing the leader, since you actually must do that in K1. It would also have made more sense to say that LS Revan redeemed Yuthura, since that is a likely - though not necessary - outcome of K1. Ajunta Pall's redemption, however, had zero impact on the plot evolvement of either game.

Yes, you're right - fight the power! - "I am Spartacus!"

I can't believe nobody has voted for the original movie yet

Well, Bastila dying is acutally unlikely... You can only kill her if you choose LS, in which case you would be more likely to redeem her than to just kill her. Besides, the devs presuming that is not a big stretch. I thought they were stretching it far more, when they concluded in K2 that the LS Revan had redeemed the spirit of Ajunta Pall - that was actually difficult in K1, since it required a pretty high Persuade skill! Even with Persuade 20+, I failed frequently...

I was actually disappointed that Obi-Wan didn't even try. Especially after telling Yoda that he couldn't kill Anakin and Vader's comment to Luke in "Jedi" about Obi-Wan once thinking as Luke did then. On the other hand, with Hayden Christensen's horrible acting, I can't really blame Obi-Wan - Hayden really looked as if he had no idea where he was a long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away... Good - K3 for you!

George doesn't need money. He created Star Wars. He owns it. Whatever he says goes. George is god in Star Wars. His word is law.

Well, this is a KotOR2 board, and most of us are still pretty uncertain about it. I liked K2 better in a lot of ways, particularly the deeper story, but the fact that it was unfinished cannot be ignored, nor can the problem that I'm not allowed to identify with my own character due to lack of information about him.

Definitely Empire. It was better than the original, and all the rest were crap storywise to varying degrees, which is what matters most to me, even if some of them did have other redeeming qualities (skillfully long climax that didn't drag on in Jedi and incredible lightsaber-fights in Menace and Sith).

No, you're not alone. I do just the same and for the same reason. HK-47 may have some cool comments, but other than that he is just as pathetic as every other ranged fighter. I always go with three jedi-types if at all possible. And if I can't, then I tend to choose a human(oid) ranged fighter over any of the droids. Have used T3 on a few occasions, though, due to the heal-option you get with him after repairing all his damage, which I always do.

Why do you think they call it "Master Speed"? :D

No, but we're not talking about continuity by canon - we're talking about what happens in the games, which is not the same. It may be that the only officially accepted canon is that Revan chose LS and so that Vandar lived to be killed later on Katarr, as per Vrook's comments in K2. However, this is not a presumed conclusion in the game itself. In K2 a DS Revan is a valid possibility, and you even get to set it yourself. It also has consequences for Carth (being alive or dead), Bastila (being LS or DS), the Star Forge (being destroyed or not), etc.

I just don't see why. If you want a Yoda-species jedi master in K3, then that's fine - I'd even like that myself. I don't mind in the slightest. I do mind seeing dead people, though. Star Wars is not the Sixth Sense. Vandar is dead. Even if he survived an explosing ship in K1, he's still said to be dead in K2. Leave the carcass alone... There is support for it in one of the comic books, though. More importantly, there is in the game itself, since why else can Visas make Nihilus weaker during the confrontation by sacrificing her own life?