Josh's new suggestion for Resolve is brilliant IMHO!

[IndiraLightfoot]

Josh said in his latest Frog Helms Club update that they're thinking of adding a possibility of randomly Empowering a skill/spell to Resolve to make it more attractive. The higher RES, the higher chance you have of getting your skill/spell Empowered.

 

With such a change, it would be hard to forget about Empower, wouldn't you say?

 

Please do implement this, is all I can say, since it would make Empower a cooler feature, unlike so far...

(See my thread on Empower: https://forums.obsidian.net/topic/95325-empower-babe-put-in-a-corner/?do=findComment&comment=1981303)

 

What do you guys think?

Edited February 26, 2018 by IndiraLightfoot

[Boeroer]

I think that this would benefit casters a lot and do not much for the others, since the abilities that profit most from Empowerment are spells.

 

So unless they do a more consistent implementation of Empower I don't think I want it. I also don't like the randomness of it too much.

Edited February 26, 2018 by Boeroer

[IndiraLightfoot]

The randomness, I don't mind at all. It's more or less the same when swinging weapons and hitting and how much damage you deal with them, sort of.

 

And isn't it good that it generally benefits casters, given their current state? And I assume this benefits rogues as well (even if I haven't played around much with stealth).

Edited February 26, 2018 by IndiraLightfoot

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

If strength effects spell damage again and empower is consistent(ie more abilities are influenced by power level) then sure. Right now it will just make resolve better for spell casters and meh for others.

[dunehunter]

Not a fan of chance based benefit actually. It is not reliable and wth is Depower for low Resolve?

 

Like -10 powerlevel for my ability?

[IndiraLightfoot]

I wonder what a non-random version would look like?

 

How about something in the vein of:

RES 1-8 never occurs

RES 9-11 every 8th empowerable action will be empowered (perhaps starting with the first, to increase the value of RES even further?)

RES 12-14 every 7th empowerable action will be empowered (ditto)

RES 15-16 every 6th empowerable action will be empowered (ditto)

RES 17-18 every 5rd empowerable action will be empowered (ditto)

RES 19-20 every 4nd empowerable action will be empowered (ditto)

RES 21-22 every 3rd empowerable action will be empowered (ditto)

 

Or is this madly OP?

[Boeroer]

I don't even know how the Empowerment will influence the ability. Could be it doesn't really work like a "full" per-rest Empower use but just raises the Power Level by 5 or so. That would be an approach that seems to be more sensible to me.

 

But dishing out a devastating Fireball through randomly applied full Empower, eventually wiping my own party? I don't know. This could make the balancing of encounters a nightmare. When RES kicks in and I land my OP Bounding Missiles the encounter is over, if it does't then I might lose. To much randomness for my taste.

 

If the effects are more subtle then sure, why not?

[theBalthazar]

Or perhaps an intermediate version of empower ?

 

Like :

 

Classic empower = +10 level

Random empower via Resolve = 10 % of +4 level

 

Or Resolve only increase the number of empower PER ENCOUNTER. (level = global number of empower, AND resolve = per encounter number of theses possibilities)

 

For exemple actually, we have only 1 empower per encounter.

 

3 = 1

10 = 2

20 = 3

Edited February 26, 2018 by theBalthazar

[Boeroer]

Yes, something like that.

[theBalthazar]

For the % eventually :

 

Resolve / % of trigger / Power Level

 

3 = 0 % (trigger) PL+4

10 = 7 % PL+4

18 = 15 % PL+4

20 = 17 % PL+4

 

Note : Fixed power level, and an investment on a percentage.

 

There is an other choice :

 

3 = 5 % (trigger) PL+0

4 = 5 % PL+1

6 = 5 % PL+2

10 = 5 % PL+4

14 = 5 %  PL+6

20 = 5 % PL+9

22 = 5 % PL+10 (Max)

 

Note : Fixed trigger, and investment on a greater power level. (Until 10, which is the max. Because 10 is actual full empower)

Edited February 26, 2018 by theBalthazar

[Fashion Mage]

I don't know why it seems to be considered that might and resolve were better in regards to dump stats, because resolve was pretty much a complete dump stat for anything that wasn't a tank and might was needed for anything that focused on damage or healing (so virtually everything except tanks). Having to choose whether to value weapon or spell damage isn't as nearly straight forward or bad as it's made out to be. It also plays out better role-play wise because the dialogue options for might were unfitting for a lot of the builds that took them (grabbing shirt sleeves as a wizard or most types of priests felt extremely out-of-character, yet might was an essential stat for both). Despite apparent popular opinion, I think it'd be a huge mistake to revert to the old stats.

 

The empower mechanic is interesting, it essentially seems to be critical casting. I find stats to be more interesting when their effects are more unusual, such as intellect affecting spell radius and duration.

Edited February 26, 2018 by Fashion Mage

[IndiraLightfoot]

Or perhaps an intermediate version of empower ?

 

Like :

 

Classic empower = +10 level

Random empower via Resolve = 10 % of +4 level

 

Or Resolve only increase the number of empower PER ENCOUNTER. (level = global number of empower, AND resolve = per encounter number of theses possibilities)

 

For exemple actually, we have only 1 empower per encounter.

 

3 = 1

10 = 2

20 = 3

A really nice idea, and easy to grasp and remember as well. I like it!

[DozingDragon]

So, random damage/cc/duration spikes (or drops) with resolve?  I just do not see the appeal.  Josh said the strength/resolve fix was unpopular, is that true around these parts?  It seemed like everyone was just rolling with it, with the exception of the concern about how it impacted ciphers (who needed help to begin with) and some multiclass characters.  

[mrmonocle]

maybe it's just empower chance 1 % per point

 

1 - 1%

10 - 10%

20 - 20%

30 - 30%

 

1% per point seems fine, when at 20 res every 5th ability which is 1 or 2 abilities of your whole per encounter pool will get a free empower which is not too godly imo.

Edited February 26, 2018 by mrmonocle

[Urthor]

The random variance involved in this makes me think it'll be super binary whether you take it or not, either random chance will be good enough that you dump all your stats and go for max resolve max intel ubercaster (someone teach me how to type an umlaut on US keyboards) or it'll be a dump stat.  

 

 

Honestly at this point I think everyone involved with stats realises that 5 was the right number and 6 was a bad idea back in the PoE kickstarter, if there were 5 stats with only 2 stats for defensive builds then it'd all be balanced and dandy.  

[KDubya]

If the choice is between:

 

1. Keeping Strength and the new Resolve with Resolve also getting a random powerlevel power up
2. Reverting back to Might and the old Resolve

I opt for #2.

 

Or are they talking about adding the random powerlevel power up to the old Resolve? if that is on the table that sounds pretty good.

 

Keeping Strength/Resolve and adding the power up just further rewards min maxing and dumping strength and maxing Resolve for any sort of caster which sounds bad to me.

[Wormerine]

Uhh... and I though we went past the argument of “but PoE1 worked differently” and strength/resolve will stay.

 

Like many others I am not a fan of the proposed system, though to be honest, I have trouble visualising it. If I understand it well, resolve gives a chance to empower/deposed random ability during a fight - which sucks, really really hard. How does this “chance work”? Other abilities give tangible, reliable benefits. This seems like a slot machine - resolve seems like “luck”, which I was never fond of. Get lucky to empower an ability, get lucky so an ability you want to empower will be a one you will have a use for in the current encounter.

 

EDIT: reread Josh’s post. It gives a chance to empower ability you decide to use. I just don’t like it, because it is not something you can plan for. When you get bonus chance to crit, it is a constant chance with every attack. Abilities are used when they are needed. I don’t think it would be awful, just something I would keep at 10 to have reliable constant success and invest into other attributes - at least gameplay wise. If they are simply going to revert to might, resolve will need something and random empower is better than nothing - It’s Mighty Number 9 of attributes.

Edited February 26, 2018 by Wormerine

[IndiraLightfoot]

I dunno. I'm surprised that so many of you guys have a problem with the randomness. I'd just chalk it up as a spell critical, or something to that effect - which would stack with normal crits as well, if that's applicable.

[JerekKruger]

Not a fan. I don't like the random element of it. If you want Resolve to have something to do with Empower I'd prefer it to give a bonus/penalty to the number of Empower's you get per rest or a bonus/penalty to the power of Empowers. I prefer the latter of these two for the simple reason that I don't like break points in Attributes and I doubt Obsidian would make Resolve give you ±1 Empower per point of Resolve as that would seem a lot.

 

Of course I'm really not a fan of the new system anyway (particularly renaming Might Strength) so would favour some return to the old system. That said, I'd still like to see Resolve get something more as it was definitely (one of) the weakest Attribute(s) in Pillars. I still feel the Affliction duration reduction idea that was floated around here was a good one, although presumably Obsidian have reasons for not liking it.

[MortyTheGobbo]

I dunno. I'm surprised that so many of you guys have a problem with the randomness. I'd just chalk it up as a spell critical, or something to that effect - which would stack with normal crits as well, if that's applicable.

 

The problem is that other attributes aren't random. They affect random rolls like attacks, but they do so consistently. This idea introduces a new, purely random effect that's unique to Resolve.

 

I don't like this idea either. It feels tacked on. Resolve does need something, but this feels like something most people will ignore. It honestly does feel like we might not need Resolve at all, and this is an exercise in desperately trying to make it relevant.

[theBalthazar]

1 - 1%

10 - 10%

20 - 20%

30 - 30%

 

With full empower ? (+10 ?)

 

Easy to understand yes, but also impossible :

 

At the creation, With 20 resolve, you have 20 % of free full empower. MaxQuest could be calcul that but I think It is a massive boost of DPS...

 

+ It all depends on whether we stay in this system. Because Resolve could be become the best stat. Damage spell + Heal + This...

Edited February 26, 2018 by theBalthazar

[gGeorg]

I wonder what a non-random version would look like?

 

How about something in the vein of:

RES 1-8 never occurs

RES 9-11 every 8th empowerable action will be empowered (perhaps starting with the first, to increase the value of RES even further?)

RES 12-14 every 7th empowerable action will be empowered (ditto)

RES 15-16 every 6th empowerable action will be empowered (ditto)

RES 17-18 every 5rd empowerable action will be empowered (ditto)

RES 19-20 every 4nd empowerable action will be empowered (ditto)

RES 21-22 every 3rd empowerable action will be empowered (ditto)

 

Or is this madly OP?

That is interesting idea also from other perspective.

Current tactic is, always cast most powerful spell first. --> repetitive fights.

With this, you might want wait for a while. With this you might think about strategy.

Cast mega fireball as first action of the battle or make few buffs to get empowered fireball later?

Also UI should give you a hint, the counter for empowered spell.

It looks to me, you have hit two birds by one stone.

Edited February 26, 2018 by gGeorg

[MaxQuest]

Random chance to add +10 power levels on spellcast / ability usage, sounds kinda unreliable. Unreliable can lead to frustration if the effect misses due to sudden depower; or the feeling of undeserved if an effect suddenly gets empowered.

And this is a bit different from auto-attack resolution randomness, since here's more at stake.

 

Additionally it will promote save-reloading during boss fights, for two reasons:

- waiting till a crucial cc gets empowered, and if not: reload

- being annihilated because the dragon with 26 RES suddenly empowered several times in a row.

 

And if it was not random, but every nth spell/attack, I would just count them ^^, and it could be like:

some quick buff, some quick buff, some quick buff, oh next one gets empowered: shinning beacon/fireball/gaze of adragan/whatever!

 

Edit: forgot to add, that from rp (not gameplay) point of view, the suggestion looks really nice though. You are more resolved and are able to put more effort.

Edited February 26, 2018 by MaxQuest

[mrmonocle]

 

1 - 1%

10 - 10%

20 - 20%

30 - 30%

 

With full empower ? (+10 ?)

 

Easy to understand yes, but also impossible :

 

At the creation, With 20 resolve, you have 20 % of free full empower. MaxQuest could be calcul that but I think It is a massive boost of DPS...

 

+ It all depends on whether we stay in this system. Because Resolve could be become the best stat. Damage spell + Heal + This...

 

why full empower? empower by power level ofc

 

 

Random chance to add +10 power levels on spellcast / ability usage, sounds kinda unreliable. Unreliable can lead to frustration if the effect misses due to sudden depower; or the feeling of undeserved if an effect suddenly gets empowered.

And this is a bit different from auto-attack resolution randomness, since here's more at stake.

 

Additionally it will promote save-reloading during boss fights, for two reasons:

- waiting till a crucial cc gets empowered, and if not: reload

- being annihilated because the dragon with 26 RES suddenly empowered several times in a row.

 

And if it was not random, but every nth spell/attack, I would just count them ^^, and it could be like:

some quick buff, some quick buff, some quick buff, oh next one gets empowered: shinning beacon/fireball/gaze of adragan/whatever!

 

a bit stretched. What prevents the designers to give the boss a few legit empowers so the boss could spam them? Can you confirm enemies use empower at all? 

Edited February 26, 2018 by mrmonocle

[gGeorg]

Random chance to add +10 power levels on spellcast / ability usage, sounds kinda unreliable. Unreliable can lead to frustration if the effect misses due to sudden depower; or the feeling of undeserved if an effect suddenly gets empowered.

And this is a bit different from auto-attack resolution randomness, since here's more at stake.

 

Additionally it will promote save-reloading during boss fights, for two reasons:

- waiting till a crucial cc gets empowered, and if not: reload

- being annihilated because the dragon with 26 RES suddenly empowered several times in a row.

 

And if it was not random, but every nth spell/attack, I would just count them ^^, and it could be like:

some quick buff, some quick buff, some quick buff, oh next one gets empowered: shinning beacon/fireball/gaze of adragan/whatever!

High randomnes and sudden death is not good for smooth playing. It brings save/load whoring.

However every nth spell is great.

Current tactic is, always cast most powerful spell first. --> repetitive fights.

With this, you might want wait for a while. With this you might think about strategy.

Cast mega fireball as first action of the battle or make few buffs to get empowered fireball later?

Also UI should give you a hint, the counter for empowered spell.

Edited February 26, 2018 by gGeorg