Political Ocean's 11

[Gfted1]

Yeah, you made those guidelines up. In reality, the ratings will cite any reason they wish. A movie in which the C-word is uttered is rated R for sexual abuse and so is one that features graphic rape as long as it doesn't show the dreaded peen. The ratings are a pointless abomination. The Matrix is R and The Ring is PG-13.

 

*Sigh*

 

Youre not even trying any more.

[ShadySands]

I think trigger warning just has a negative connotation to some at this point so they may reflexively rail against it 

 

I think you may give people too much credit

 

Call it something else and I'd wager you'd get a better reaction

Edited October 19, 2017 by ShadySands

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

 

Yeah, you made those guidelines up. In reality, the ratings will cite any reason they wish. A movie in which the C-word is uttered is rated R for sexual abuse and so is one that features graphic rape as long as it doesn't show the dreaded peen. The ratings are a pointless abomination. The Matrix is R and The Ring is PG-13.

 

 

*Sigh*

 

Youre not even trying any more.

That doesn't address his point, let alone disprove it.

[Blarghagh]

Well it proves he didn't make them up at least, but that doesn't really mean anything since in practice he might as well have.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

Well it proves he didn't make them up at least, but that doesn't really mean anything since in practice he might as well have.

Those aren't guidelines but rather an explanation of what each rating means. It can't tell you why The Matrix was rated R or why The Ring was PG-13.

[Blarghagh]

I think trigger warning just has a negative connotation to some at this point so they may reflexively rail against it

 

I think you may give people too much credit

 

Call it something else and I'd wager you'd get a better reaction

Maybe you're right, because I can't think of any other reason people don't get up in arms about dryer instructions stating not to use it on babies but this is the one they can't handle.

[Amentep]

 

"Waa, youre a poopy head for having different opinions on matters." There, there.

 

Back to movie ratings. Why do you suppose there are ages related to the ratings? Because we assume that as people age, they become more able to handle the slings and arrows of fictional stories or recreations.

 

Rated G: General Audiences – all ages admitted. Rated PG: Parental Guidance Suggested – some material may not be suitable for children. Rated PG-13: Parents Strongly Cautioned – some material may be inappropriate for children under 13. Rated R: Restricted – under 17 requires accompanying parent or adult guardian.

G = No cursing

PG = No nudity

R = No penetration

 

Not: "Hey, someone you know got crapped on and this movie shows someone getting crapped on, so beware.

 

 

There's been a lot of debate about the arbitrariness of how the MPAA rates movies.  Such as productions callously using the f-word once to guarantee a PG-13 rating.

 

Also PG films (prior to PG-13) allowed brief, non-sexual nudity.  What PG-13 did was ultimately sanitized PG to the point that its hard to determine what it allows that isn't in a G film, and allow more kids to experience almost-R films.

[Chilloutman]

In South Africa they say we have a "rape culture "

 

http://www.destinyconnect.com/2017/07/11/rape-culture-south-africa/

 

I dont like the term "rape culture " because it applies rape is almost acceptable in South Africa, its not. Its a blight and scourge on our society and everyone I know is vociferously opposed to it and its often discussed and harshly criticized...but it is one of several societal problems we grapple with on an almost daily basis

 

I dont know  a single person who doesn't know at least one women who hasn't been raped or a victim of sexual violence so your 0.0.1% numbers are horribly inaccurate 

 

Statistically we probably have about 200 reported rapes a day, our population is 56 million so thats quite high 

 

http://rapecrisis.org.za/rape-in-south-africa/

 

And I can share one more thing, as a man its one of the worst experiences and utterly emasculating when you have any lady in your life who is a  victim of rape because all the words of support and comfort you think you will say to help them suddenly seem irrelevant compared to there real trauma and emotional state

I was talking about civilized parts of the world

 

I think SA have bigger problems which trigger warnings will not fix

Edited October 19, 2017 by Chilloutman

[Raithe]

Sen. Klobuchar Questions Sen. Sessions on Media Protections

 

Klobuchar: Will you commit to not putting reporters in jail for doing their jobs?

Sessions: I cannot make a blanket commitment to that effect

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ppBGvOeIcNE

 

(at the 54:00 mark)

Edited October 19, 2017 by Raithe

[Elerond]

 

Yeah, you made those guidelines up. In reality, the ratings will cite any reason they wish. A movie in which the C-word is uttered is rated R for sexual abuse and so is one that features graphic rape as long as it doesn't show the dreaded peen. The ratings are a pointless abomination. The Matrix is R and The Ring is PG-13.

 

*Sigh*

 

Youre not even trying any more.

 

 

I think people mix up different rating systems

 

In USA TV programs have content descriptors when they are seen to have something questionable in them

 

Content descriptors

Some thematic elements, according to the FCC, "may call for parental guidance and/or the program may contain one or more of the following" sub-ratings, designated with an alphabetic letter:

D – Suggestive dialogue

L – Coarse or crude language

S – Sexual situations

V – Violence

FV – Fantasy violence

 

 

Here media products (tv-series, movies and games have age ratings and possible content descriptors to explain why it has certain age rating)

 

Contains violence             Contains sex        Contains horror elements     Contains drug use

 

 

Then there is PEGI system that has its own content descriptors

 

 violence

  bad language

 fear/horror

 sex

 drugs

 gambling

 discrimination

and worst of all

 online play option

 

[Guard Dog]

 

 

 

It's very weird seeing the side who fought christians, Republicans and "upset parents" book burning and censorship and pushed the envelope of raunchyness and uncomfortable truths become the thing they fought against years ago.

It's ass backwards now and has been for some time and still i can't believe it at times.

U stare into the abyss long enough...

Oh no, how dare they... warn people that rape and violence is happening in these plays? Clearly this is the same thing as burning books! something something cultural marxism something something outrage

Not the same thing... but the latter is only a short step from the former.

you can’t be serious? What is essentially a brief summary of certain moments is close to the same as the censorship and symbolic destruction of literature?

 

By that logic, I might as well say book titles are a short step from censorship, because they direct the readers interest without giving him explicit information.

 

 

I didn't say they were the same or equate them in any way other than to point out the former is a step (even a small one) in the direction of the latter. 

[aluminiumtrioxid]

 

 

 

I don't understand what's so bad about giving someone information they can make an informed decision about themselves.

 

I think there are two main concerns -

 

Does it help?  If the student still has to experience the 'triggering' content does knowing about it actually make a difference?

 

Does it hurt?  If the student continues to avoid triggering content, are they keeping themselves from healing over the long term?

 

 

 

...How are these even questions? Literally everybody I spoke to who actually attends or lectures at university told me that yes, these things are useful, yes, they help students cope with material that is difficult for them to process, and no, nobody is actually exempt from the normal requirements for successfully completing the course. Trigger warnings don't exist to protect the precious fee-fees of students, they exist to allow them to digest the texts on their own terms. I can't believe there are people who are arguing - no doubt from a position of ignorance, but ignorance should not be an excuse - that there is a positive societal value in expecting people to engage in a demanding intellectual activity while in a state of fight-or-flight panic mode as opposed to, y'know, giving them a heads-up that 'hey, this material might be difficult, so go ahead, take a minute, and prepare yourself so you can engage with it properly'.

 

 

There are some from the psychology/psychiatry area who argue (or have argued, I'm not up to date on it so they may have had further research) that trigger warnings only cause more issues than they solve (I think Richard McNally at Harvard and Metin Basoglu at King's College are the two I remember reading comments from).  At the core of their view was the idea that avoidance not only does not alleviate, but instead may worsen, PTSD (and I believe Basoglu further claims that it can further feelings of helplessness and depression as well).

 

 

 

Yeah, but when the warnings are - at least in an academic context - issued not with the the intent to foster avoidance, but to allow people to gather their bearings before engaging with the material, that complaint rings a bit hollow.

 

 

 

Uhh... I'm genuinely happy that neither you nor anybody close to you has ever experienced rape

Why do I have a feeling you guys start to sound like "you don't know life if you haven't been raped".

 

 

 

...Because you can't differentiate between calls for compassion towards people with a different life experience than yours, and people screaming "you're a cishet white male and therefore your opinion should be discarded forever"?

[Chilloutman]

 

 

Yeah, you made those guidelines up. In reality, the ratings will cite any reason they wish. A movie in which the C-word is uttered is rated R for sexual abuse and so is one that features graphic rape as long as it doesn't show the dreaded peen. The ratings are a pointless abomination. The Matrix is R and The Ring is PG-13.

 

*Sigh*

 

Youre not even trying any more.

 

 

I think people mix up different rating systems

 

In USA TV programs have content descriptors when they are seen to have something questionable in them

 

Content descriptors

Some thematic elements, according to the FCC, "may call for parental guidance and/or the program may contain one or more of the following" sub-ratings, designated with an alphabetic letter:

D – Suggestive dialogue

L – Coarse or crude language

S – Sexual situations

V – Violence

FV – Fantasy violence

 

 

Here media products (tv-series, movies and games have age ratings and possible content descriptors to explain why it has certain age rating)

 

Contains violence             Contains sex        Contains horror elements     Contains drug use

 

 

Then there is PEGI system that has its own content descriptors

 

 violence

  bad language

 fear/horror

 sex

 drugs

 gambling

 discrimination

and worst of all

 online play option

 

 

I dig that discimination one xD

[aluminiumtrioxid]

 

 

 

 

Oh no, how dare they... warn people that rape and violence is happening in these plays? Clearly this is the same thing as burning books! something something cultural marxism something something outrage

Not the same thing... but the latter is only a short step from the former.

you can’t be serious? What is essentially a brief summary of certain moments is close to the same as the censorship and symbolic destruction of literature?

 

By that logic, I might as well say book titles are a short step from censorship, because they direct the readers interest without giving him explicit information.

 

 

I didn't say they were the same or equate them in any way other than to point out the former is a step (even a small one) in the direction of the latter. 

 

 

I'm just going to point out that the slippery slope fallacy is called a fallacy for a reason.

[injurai]

Speaking of Gambling ratings, that whole loot box ordeal has been intriguing.

[Malcador]

And the whitewashing history begins. "It's not essential folks", "It's not appropriate", "it's a crime"...

Well in this case that doesn't apply as it's fiction. But generally, not really, as if they decide they don't want to study a play, they can. You can't very well insist they provide a good reason for doing so to your satisfaction, as then you're in a glass house so to speak. And people decide to not study many of his plays for whatever reason - we skipped Tempest, Titus, Midsummer, I'm sure other schools skipped the ones we did. This sort of situation is still far from the hill to die on.

Edited October 20, 2017 by Malcador

[smjjames]

 

I cant actually parse that TN but I can tell youre upset. Let me try a different angle...everything is not one or zero.

 

You see this image:

 

 

Its a fire warning. This type of warning is good.

 

Having to post a warning about every possible trauma, which if not posted will result in ABJECT TERROR ( ), is dumb. Heres a few more good ones to help out those that need it: water can drown you, fire can burn you (see above), electricity can electrocute you, falling from <x> height can break bones, don't eat yellow snow and its dark outside when your location on Earth has rotated away from the sun. All of these examples are totes legit issues people can and do have. Ill try to think up some more when I have time.

Yeah, none of those things are comparable. I'm just as confounded that that toothpicks have warnings about pointy ends as you are. If they were, I'm still not sure why this is the one where the line must be drawn.

 

 

I suspect the toothpick thing is because someone tried to sue them over not knowing it was pointy, people can be idiots. Which is why you often see warnings in manuals that seem obvious common sense, because companies need to protect their legal butts from idiots.

 

It's a COMPLETELY different thing from trigger warnings.

[Guard Dog]

 

 

 

 

 

Oh no, how dare they... warn people that rape and violence is happening in these plays? Clearly this is the same thing as burning books! something something cultural marxism something something outrage

Not the same thing... but the latter is only a short step from the former.

you can’t be serious? What is essentially a brief summary of certain moments is close to the same as the censorship and symbolic destruction of literature?

 

By that logic, I might as well say book titles are a short step from censorship, because they direct the readers interest without giving him explicit information.

 

 

I didn't say they were the same or equate them in any way other than to point out the former is a step (even a small one) in the direction of the latter. 

 

 

I'm just going to point out that the slippery slope fallacy is called a fallacy for a reason.

 

 

When it comes to asserting a thing WILL happen, or that one event consequently leads to another sure. I think I've been pretty clear that I'm not necessarily connecting the two. But there is a history here in the US in particular of music. movies, and books especially being banned and it begins with some "moral outrage" over a thing that offends only a few people with the power to take away what they think other's shouldn't see. This is from the article and the words of one of the professors:

 

Another Cambridge lecturer told Newsnight that trigger warnings had been added to the timetable "without discussion", while another admitted they "self-censored" texts on their course to avoid causing offence to some students.

 

​The day that anything has to be censored to avoid hurting the feelings of the poor little dears we are in trouble. Censorship of any stripe does not belong in a school. Especially not one of "higher learning". I think you'll agree censorship and outright banning, while not the same thing, are at the very least the same KIND of thing. 

 

Of course it may be too late anyway. Earlier this year at Northern Arizona University a student was escorted from a classroom for reading a banned book before class. Two years ago right here in Tennessee a middle school student was suspended for reading a banned book during a designated free reading period at school. The school even took that book away from the student before suspending them. Both incidents were the same book by the way. It was the bible. 

 

 

[Hurlshort]

 

And the whitewashing history begins. "It's not essential folks", "It's not appropriate", "it's a crime"...

Well in this case that doesn't apply as it's fiction. But generally, not really, as if they decide they don't want to study a play, they can. You can't very well insist they provide a good reason for doing so to your satisfaction, as then you're in a glass house so to speak. And people decide to not study many of his plays for whatever reason - we skipped Tempest, Titus, Midsummer, I'm sure other schools skipped the ones we did. This sort of situation is still far from the hill to die on.

On the internet, no hill is too small to die on.

[Malcador]

On the internet, no hill is too small to die on.

Well naturally, and paranoia is a drug. But just meant that this kind of thing isn't necessarily going to lead to the other, so best to actually get on the hill to die rather. Then again, not sure people care much about the freedom so much as just wanting to yell "HTFU".

[BruceVC]

Also, why is this talk even a thing?

 

Here’s some actually important information:

-Over the past 12 years, the number of breeding birds in Europe has declined by 15%

-Over the past 27 years, the number of flying insects in Europe of all types has declined by more than 75%

 

Could this perhaps be in any way at least important symptoms of a larger issue? Maybe even causes of bigger problems? Caused by our actions?

 

But instead of taking an honest look at ecological problems; let’s talk about triggers warnings over several pages! Because that sounds like a fundamental issue to modern society.

 

Source;http://www.tagesschau.de/ausland/europa-umwelt-insekten-101.html

Islamic  extremism is the cause of these ecological problems Bennie, everyone knows that    

[injurai]

The more people you let in, the more animals you have to kick out. It's simple math.

[Guard Dog]

 

 

 

 

 

It's very weird seeing the side who fought christians, Republicans and "upset parents" book burning and censorship and pushed the envelope of raunchyness and uncomfortable truths become the thing they fought against years ago.

It's ass backwards now and has been for some time and still i can't believe it at times.

U stare into the abyss long enough...

Oh no, how dare they... warn people that rape and violence is happening in these plays? Clearly this is the same thing as burning books! something something cultural marxism something something outrage

Not the same thing... but the latter is only a short step from the former.

you can’t be serious? What is essentially a brief summary of certain moments is close to the same as the censorship and symbolic destruction of literature?

 

By that logic, I might as well say book titles are a short step from censorship, because they direct the readers interest without giving him explicit information.

I didn't say they were the same or equate them in any way other than to point out the former is a step (even a small one) in the direction of the latter.

No, you said that “the latter is only a short step from the former”, indicating not that one is a small step into a certain direction, but that one is only shortly apart from the other.

 

 

Yep, I wrote that. Not what I meant to say though. My answer to aluminiumtrioxid in post 422 really outlines what I think on the matter and why. Like I said, there is a history here. I don't think the words banned or censored should ever be used in reference to s book, or any other source of information for that matter. 

[Gfted1]

Im trying to coin a new phrase and I want some input. Since we dont even have to have actually experienced something to then later become triggered by it, what rolls off the tongue better; TRIGGERED by proxy or TRIGGERED adjacent?

 

@Ben No.3: Yep, imo, Ecological collapse will be mankind's final undoing. Your great-grandchildren will stave to death long before climate issues have chance to kill them.  

[Malcador]

Not sure either works, may be better to use imagined. Then again not even sure of the initial assertion, so a new term is moot.