Multiclassing Update

[Kadayko]

What confused me in the video is the fact that you can multiclass into the same class. When Josh picked a Monk he could pick Monk again as the second class option and the Monk/Monk Multiclass was called Gadandag. My only guess is that it is a feature that lets you pick 2 sub classes of the same class, but I'm really not sure.

[injurai]

What confused me in the video is the fact that you can multiclass into the same class. When Josh picked a Monk he could pick Monk again as the second class option and the Monk/Monk Multiclass was called Gadandag. My only guess is that it is a feature that lets you pick 2 sub classes of the same class, but I'm really not sure.

 

You can't do this, either they have yet to code against that, or they haven't finalized the UI elements.

[Kadayko]

 

What confused me in the video is the fact that you can multiclass into the same class. When Josh picked a Monk he could pick Monk again as the second class option and the Monk/Monk Multiclass was called Gadandag. My only guess is that it is a feature that lets you pick 2 sub classes of the same class, but I'm really not sure.

 

You can't do this, either they have yet to code against that, or they haven't finalized the UI elements.

 

 

Hm, I wonder who is Gadandag then.

[injurai]

I think that is a companion unique subclass for monk (for Xoti I believe?), It's certainly not a monk/monk multi-class name.

[Karkarov]

I think that is a companion unique subclass for monk (for Xoti I believe?), It's certainly not a monk/monk multi-class name.

Yeap ^.  Xoti's priest subclass was supposedly visible for a hot second as well.

[morhilane]

 

 

What confused me in the video is the fact that you can multiclass into the same class. When Josh picked a Monk he could pick Monk again as the second class option and the Monk/Monk Multiclass was called Gadandag. My only guess is that it is a feature that lets you pick 2 sub classes of the same class, but I'm really not sure.

 

You can't do this, either they have yet to code against that, or they haven't finalized the UI elements.

 

 

Hm, I wonder who is Gadandag then.

 

 

It's the first day of the week...it's a bug (Josh mentioned it on twitter).

[Climhazzard]

 

 

It won't be that short. I am sure the goal is for a multiclass character with 2 intellect to at least have them be more useful than an auto attack. Everything must be viable, and all.

 

 

In b4 minumum stat level for PoE 2 is set to 8 to prevent you from making yourself non viable....

 

Joking aside.  The new multi class system is clearly less flexible but I think it will be better in the long run, being easier to balance and having less cheesiness like a monk with a single barbarian level for carnage.

 

I'm very interested in making a Devoted monk for my first character, hope for her sake immunities don't make a comeback.  If immunities do make a comeback I wonder if Devoted accuracy malus will effect unarmed for those times I need to use something different.  I'm also dying to know what will be special about each class of weapon.  Most likely I would either go something monk themed, like dual wielding kama (we need these) or using a quarterstaff.  But that could change depending on the differences between various weapon types.  If single weapon spec becomes viable then I'd also be interested in going for a single sword devoted monk.  If the game had a Katana of some kind I would also consider some kind of Samurai build, lol.

 

Interesting to know that Wizards will still have grimoires.  For the sake of multi classing with Wizard in mind I hope there is a large variety of well balanced grimoires in game or a way to make your own.  Or at the least some themed grimoires, like a melee focused transmuter's grimoire.

Edited September 24, 2017 by Climhazzard

[draego]

Interesting to know that Wizards will still have grimoires.  For the sake of multi classing with Wizard in mind I hope there is a large variety of well balanced grimoires in game or a way to make your own.  Or at the least some themed grimoires, like a melee focused transmuter's grimoire.

 

Grimoires are different in POE2. You cant select any of the spells in them and they will contain less spells than the POE1. They wont be full of spells like your ending spell book in POE1. We will see if there will be some kind of exception like a quest related grimoire that lets you customize it or something but otherwise until we know they are restricted.

Edited September 24, 2017 by draego

[PugPug]

 

Interesting to know that Wizards will still have grimoires.  For the sake of multi classing with Wizard in mind I hope there is a large variety of well balanced grimoires in game or a way to make your own.  Or at the least some themed grimoires, like a melee focused transmuter's grimoire.

 

 

Grimoires are different in POE2. You cant select any of the spells in them and they will contain less spells than the POE1. They wont be full of spells like your ending spell book in POE1. We will see if there will be some kind of exception like a quest related grimoire that lets you customize it or something but otherwise until we know they are restricted.

To expand on this... wizards can cast spells learned at level-up regardless having a grimoire or not. Grimoires they find will have a couple of spells per level, and the wizard can cast those as well, if equipped. But the wizard cannot edit or learn permanently from the grimoire.

[Kadayko]

 

 

Interesting to know that Wizards will still have grimoires.  For the sake of multi classing with Wizard in mind I hope there is a large variety of well balanced grimoires in game or a way to make your own.  Or at the least some themed grimoires, like a melee focused transmuter's grimoire.

 

Grimoires are different in POE2. You cant select any of the spells in them and they will contain less spells than the POE1. They wont be full of spells like your ending spell book in POE1. We will see if there will be some kind of exception like a quest related grimoire that lets you customize it or something but otherwise until we know they are restricted.

To expand on this... wizards can cast spells learned at level-up regardless having a grimoire or not. Grimoires they find will have a couple of spells per level, and the wizard can cast those as well, if equipped. But the wizard cannot edit or learn permanently from the grimoire.

 

 

I thought wizards needed a grimoire because the spells are too physically demanding to cast without one. Wizards got a power boost, or a retcon? 

[FlintlockJazz]

 

 

 

Interesting to know that Wizards will still have grimoires.  For the sake of multi classing with Wizard in mind I hope there is a large variety of well balanced grimoires in game or a way to make your own.  Or at the least some themed grimoires, like a melee focused transmuter's grimoire.

 

Grimoires are different in POE2. You cant select any of the spells in them and they will contain less spells than the POE1. They wont be full of spells like your ending spell book in POE1. We will see if there will be some kind of exception like a quest related grimoire that lets you customize it or something but otherwise until we know they are restricted.

To expand on this... wizards can cast spells learned at level-up regardless having a grimoire or not. Grimoires they find will have a couple of spells per level, and the wizard can cast those as well, if equipped. But the wizard cannot edit or learn permanently from the grimoire.

 

 

I thought wizards needed a grimoire because the spells are too physically demanding to cast without one. Wizards got a power boost, or a retcon? 

 

Retcon it sounds to me: now wizards only need grimoires to cast spells they don't know but they cannot swap out spells in the grimoire anymore.  They also can't learn extra spells by spending money, the only spells they themselves can know is the ones they gain at level up.

[Ericles1557]

I'm really torn over multiclassing.  I think it's really cool and I'm already thinking of fun combinations to try!  But I also like 8th and 9th level powers down the line, so I'm not sure I'll be able to bring myself to multiclass on my first playthrough at least. >.<

 

One question though.  With this change, what happens to the Named companions?  Before you would be able to choose if they were multiclass on level up, now you have to pick on creation.  So, are they pre-picked to be multiclass or not?  Or maybe can you select if they are multiclass when you recruit them?

[Enoch]

Or maybe can you select if they are multiclass when you recruit them?

Yes.  (Sawyer has a post on this in his tumblr, but it really doesn't say much more than a "yes" to this question, so I'm not going to bother seeking it out to link here.)

[Ericles1557]

 

 

Yes.  (Sawyer has a post on this in his tumblr, but it really doesn't say much more than a "yes" to this question, so I'm not going to bother seeking it out to link here.)

 

Awesome.  Now to pore over all the class combinations and theorycrafting teams.  Cipher/Ranger so I can have a pet that I can easily cast powers on.  Figher/Wizard for classic battlemage.  Rogue/Priest for the church assassin.  Oh boy oh boy.

[JerekKruger]

Even in the update video they said that when you recruit a companion your given the choice of multiclassing them.

[draego]

From Josh on something awful:

 

 

Samuel Clemens posted:

According to rope kid, Sneak Attack and Carnage is actually one of the combos that won't work in Deadfire.

 

 

To be clear, you can inflict Sneak Attack and Carnage simultaneously, but SA doesn't apply to the Carnage targets.

 

I remember Obs talking about stuff like this in the updates. I wonder what other powers wont combine like soul whip / carnage? I think players concepts of crazy op builds maybe more nerfed than they think.

[PugPug]

From Josh on something awful:

 

 

 

Samuel Clemens posted:

According to rope kid, Sneak Attack and Carnage is actually one of the combos that won't work in Deadfire.

 

 

To be clear, you can inflict Sneak Attack and Carnage simultaneously, but SA doesn't apply to the Carnage targets.

 

 

I remember Obs talking about stuff like this in the updates. I wonder what other powers wont combine like soul whip / carnage? I think players concepts of crazy op builds maybe more nerfed than they think.

Well, sneak attack + carnage doesn’t even make any sense logically. One is a measured strike and the other is flailing like a madman. Like how powerful fists don’t work when you are a cat.

 

[blotter]

 

I thought wizards needed a grimoire because the spells are too physically demanding to cast without one. Wizards got a power boost, or a retcon? 

Retcon it sounds to me: now wizards only need grimoires to cast spells they don't know but they cannot swap out spells in the grimoire anymore.  They also can't learn extra spells by spending money, the only spells they themselves can know is the ones they gain at level up.

 

Apparently, Sawyer fielded a question about this back in March: https://jesawyer.tumblr.com/post/158755062421/unless-im-mistaken-in-poe-1-the-in-universe. 

 

Wizards are assumed to have a basic grimoire for their learned spells and that’s always what they take out if they don’t have a grimoire equipped in their Trinket slot. In *~ the lore ~* grimoires are still required for wizard spellcasting

[Osvir]

 

From Josh on something awful:

 

 

Samuel Clemens posted:

According to rope kid, Sneak Attack and Carnage is actually one of the combos that won't work in Deadfire.

 

 

To be clear, you can inflict Sneak Attack and Carnage simultaneously, but SA doesn't apply to the Carnage targets.

 

I remember Obs talking about stuff like this in the updates. I wonder what other powers wont combine like soul whip / carnage? I think players concepts of crazy op builds maybe more nerfed than they think.

Well, sneak attack + carnage doesn’t even make any sense logically. One is a measured strike and the other is flailing like a madman. Like how powerful fists don’t work when you are a cat

I think it makes sense to Sneak Attack the primary target, but then you're revealed, and proceed to hit and slash everything around you.

 

So, you Sneak Attack the first target, and everything around it suffers non-Sneak Attack Carnage.

 

But... paws of fury, made me realize...

 

Monk Swift Strikes+Barbarian Carnage :D

Edited October 2, 2017 by Osvir

[Dr <3]

And what do you think : torment reach + carnage? That is interesting.

 

Also torment reach+ turning wheel+ swift stryke with a shapeshift druid could be interesting. Monksterlash 2.0 on steroids

[FlintlockJazz]

 

 

I thought wizards needed a grimoire because the spells are too physically demanding to cast without one. Wizards got a power boost, or a retcon? 

Retcon it sounds to me: now wizards only need grimoires to cast spells they don't know but they cannot swap out spells in the grimoire anymore.  They also can't learn extra spells by spending money, the only spells they themselves can know is the ones they gain at level up.

 

Apparently, Sawyer fielded a question about this back in March: https://jesawyer.tumblr.com/post/158755062421/unless-im-mistaken-in-poe-1-the-in-universe. 

 

Wizards are assumed to have a basic grimoire for their learned spells and that’s always what they take out if they don’t have a grimoire equipped in their Trinket slot. In *~ the lore ~* grimoires are still required for wizard spellcasting

 

Okay cool thanks for finding that!  Good they are at least thinking up reasons to explain changes like this, unlike so many other companies I could mention...

Edited October 2, 2017 by FlintlockJazz

[rjshae]

From an earlier post:
 

Here’s how it works: wizards can cast from the spells they select on advancement and from spells that are in their currently equipped grimoire.

 

Grimoires in Deadfire are not books that you learn spells from but equippable items that you use to extend your casting repertoire.  Grimoires always contain a maximum of two spells per level and the spells in a given grimoire are immutable.

 

To me it sounds like a Wizard can effectively cast as though she had two grimoires in hand; one set of spells is intrinsic and the other extrinsic, and she's using the grimoire in her slot as her channel. This approach does make any grimoires you find potentially much more valuable than they were in PoE1. It would be cool if certain special grimoires had a unique talent that modified its spells.

Edited October 2, 2017 by rjshae

[Lephys]

I do find this to be the problem with sort of tenuously tying something so heavily to both the lore and a mechanic, especially when it seems to be not-all-that-necessary in anything other than to avoid a lack of a canonical explanation of the mechanic.

 

Having said that, I would rather they did what they did and somewhat retconned it now, than for us to simply not have had a PoE in the first place for them to now better know how to tweak a Wizard casting mechanic.

[blotter]

Okay cool thanks for finding that!  Good they are at least thinking up reasons to explain changes like this, unlike so many other companies I could mention...

 

You're welcome. I looked it up because I also tend to take a dim view of unexplained breaks from lore like this appeared to be. It'd be nice if they could work default grimoires into trinket slots for wizards the way unarmed strikes appear in unoccupied weapon slots in the game, but it's far from a deal-breaker for me either way.

 

I do find this to be the problem with sort of tenuously tying something so heavily to both the lore and a mechanic, especially when it seems to be not-all-that-necessary in anything other than to avoid a lack of a canonical explanation of the mechanic.

 

Yeah, they probably could have originally come up with something that would have been less sensitive to future gameplay changes. Still, I wonder how far they really could have strayed from the d&d framework of wizards mining enemy grimoires/scrolls for spells and scribbling said spells into their own books to be cast at a later date without running afoul of folks whose expectations for the game as a "spiritual successor" to its IE predecessors caused them to consider that a sticking point.

[SaruNi]

What's the ultimate tank? Unbroken/Goldpact?

 

Unbroken/Helwalker?

 

Pure Fighter?

 

Thematically, not mechanically, I also want to try either an Illusionist/Trickster, Illusionist/Wael or a Trickster/Wael. Perhaps redundant somehow, but I still think there's tons of interesting and opportunities from the Classes themselves.

 

Probably just better to go Illusionist/Rogue, Wizard/Trickster, Priest of Wael/Rogue or Wizard, etc. Just isn't as gimmicky that way

 

A multiclass character gets 2 ability points at level 1 and at every 4th level (which have to be split between the classes), while a single class gets 1 per level. So a Trickster/Wizard or Wizard/Priest of (Wael/Magran) should be able to learn more Wizard spells than a pure Wizard. (Likewise Priest of Berath / Druid.)   

 

However, PoE 1 only had about 2 illusion-ish spells per level. Since multiclass characters get access to higher level spells later (every 4th level),  a Trickster/Priest of Wael multiclass would have more than enough points to get every illusion spell available to them. So it depends on how many illusion spells there are and, probably more importantly, how many Priest/Rogue abilities you want... as well as whether Priests of Wael and Tricksters can use illusion spells from grimoires. Hopefully Rogue bonuses still apply to spells, and spells still crit.... 

 

A single class Priest of Wael or Trickster would have fewer abilities but, if illusion spells per level are limited as in PoE 1, potentially significantly more illusion spells. But they'd have few or no ability points left over for getting Priest/Rogue abilities. If there are 2 illusion spells / spell level they could get a new illusion spell at each level up (they access a new spell level every 2nd character level) but at the expense of all their ability points. If there are 3 illusion spells per spell level, single class and multiclass can get about the same max number of illusion spells (but staggered for multiclass). If there are 4 illusion spells per spell level, multiclass should be able to get more than single class.    

Edited October 6, 2017 by SaruNi