Politics Episode 8: WWF Edition

[Ben No.3]

I will answer more elaborately but let me say that I do oppose gay clubs who only let in gays; but it's totally fine if their target is to attract gays.... it isn't that complicated

[Hurlshort]

Gay bars don't only serve gay people. Anyone can go in and order a drink. I mean, it is one of the few bars where I get better sevice than my wife, but it isn't open discrimination.

[Guard Dog]

@Sharp One: Your home is not open to the public. If it were, for example if you operated a restaurant from you home then it becomes open to the public if you advertise and invite the public in. Then you don't get to discriminate who comes in, unless they violate a reasonable rule of your establishment (dress code for example). If your restaurant were not open to the general public, say it were invitation only, then it would qualify for the private club exception. 

 

You see the difference here?

[Hurlshort]

 

Gay bars don't only serve gay people. Anyone can go in and order a drink. I mean, it is one of the few bars where I get better sevice than my wife, but it isn't open discrimination.

There are gay only establishments, there are other establishments that only cater and let in a specific groups. Let's not nitpick.

 

 

Not in the US. It is hardly nitpicking. I live in the Bay Area and I've never heard of a gay only establishment, and we have a pretty large gay community.

 

Of course there are businesses that cater to certain crowds. My running shop sells shoes for runners. That doesn't mean they will turn away people who are out of shape.

[Guard Dog]

I wonder, do Gay bars open up that way or do they become that way over time? If I owned a bar I'd want to attract the crowd that drank the most ****tails. Most bars I understand make about $0.10 per 8oz of draft beer, $0.30 per bottled beer, and $1.70 per ounce on booze.  

[Blarghagh]

These days I think they open up that way, but a decade or two ago they usually slowly grew into it. I read a story once about a bar owner near a train station who hadn't realized until years later that it'd become a gay bar, he just thought he attracted a lot of young traveling men passing through. Then he was like "eh, they pay well and they're neat and rarely cause trouble, I'll just deal with it".

 

EDIT: I do actually have a problem with bars that don't let people in based on their ethnicity or gender or sexual orientation or whatever. I get the desire for safe spaces, but I don't think they're very helpful? Segregation is segregation, and I feel like it only fosters that "us vs them" mentality between different demographics. True understanding can only come after mingling. It sucks to not be accepted, but I feel like people'll never accept something they don't know and have lots of misconceptions or stereotypes about. That's my two cents. But then, I don't really have much experience with people discriminating against me. I've had a couple of run-ins with it regarding mental illness and lived around an area with lots of minorities as a kid and sometimes got bullied for being white, but that's not really consistent racism. Perhaps I lack the proper empathy.

Edited July 5, 2017 by TrueNeutral

[Hurlshort]

I'd assume like most good businesses, they target the demographic they have nearby. I know some places do Gay nights, similar to Ladies night. 

 

The crazy thing is, most of these discrimination laws are also just smart business sense. Turning away people based on religion, race, and gender seems remarkably short-sighted as a business owner.  

[Ben No.3]

 

I will answer more elaborately but let me say that I do oppose gay clubs who only let in gays; but it's totally fine if their target is to attract gays.... it isn't that complicated

No one said it's complicated. You are just a communist ideology believer.

You oppose personal liberties and would like to control people and how they live.

"Been there done that, got the scars."

The commie-straw man doesn't work if I agree with Guard Dog of all people on this issue

 

Secondly, if exclusively communists disagree with your stance here, then the world is an unbreakable union of free republics Great Russia has welded forever to stand.

Edited July 5, 2017 by Ben No.3

[Ben No.3]

 

@Sharp One: Your home is not open to the public. If it were, for example if you operated a restaurant from you home then it becomes open to the public if you advertise and invite the public in. Then you don't get to discriminate who comes in, unless they violate a reasonable rule of your establishment (dress code for example). If your restaurant were not open to the general public, say it were invitation only, then it would qualify for the private club exception.

 

You see the difference here?

What if I DON'T "advertise and invite the public in" and I only advertise and invite one groups and not the other?

What if I have, like now, a production company? It's closed to the public you cannot come in from a street, you need to be an employee, invited client, arranged supplier and such? Can I decide whom do I sell and whom I don't? If I get a call and I here "Salut", "Shalom", "Salam alaikum" etc. can I answer "Sorry, we don't make business with you guys?

 

If no, then your argument is again invalid as the "publicly open" rule does not apply but the laws still do.

If yes, then basically this law could be avoided by simply closing the door or putting bouncers/selectors at the entrance. Which again proves how insane this law is.

Your business is NOT a private entity. People work for you. Thus, you have severe influence over their lives, the lives of the people who make you someone, let's not forget. And thus, your business IS a public entity in the sense that it affects part of the public directly. Edited July 5, 2017 by Ben No.3

[Malcador]

I wonder, do Gay bars open up that way or do they become that way over time? If I owned a bar I'd want to attract the crowd that drank the most ****tails. Most bars I understand make about $0.10 per 8oz of draft beer, $0.30 per bottled beer, and $1.70 per ounce on booze.

I think most that have that label open that way, at least these days . Bars in my neighborhood have a lot of gay patrons but no one calls them gay bars.

 

Related trivia http://www.history.com/news/how-the-mob-helped-establish-nycs-gay-bar-scene

[Guard Dog]

 

@Sharp One: Your home is not open to the public. If it were, for example if you operated a restaurant from you home then it becomes open to the public if you advertise and invite the public in. Then you don't get to discriminate who comes in, unless they violate a reasonable rule of your establishment (dress code for example). If your restaurant were not open to the general public, say it were invitation only, then it would qualify for the private club exception. 

 

You see the difference here?

What if I DON'T "advertise and invite the public in" and I only advertise and invite one groups and not the other?

What if I have, like now, a production company? It's closed to the public you cannot come in from a street, you need to be an employee, invited client, arranged supplier and such? Can I decide whom do I sell and whom I don't? If I get a call and I here "Salut", "Shalom", "Salam alaikum" etc. can I answer "Sorry, we don't make business with you guys?

 

If no, then your argument is again invalid as the "publicly open" rule does not apply but the laws still do.

If yes, then basically this law could be avoided by simply closing the door or putting bouncers/selectors at the entrance. Which again proves how insane this law is.

 

If you did that then yes will likely see the inside of a courtroom soon after. If you were in the US. 

[Ben No.3]

"No, I make them someone not the other way around."

 

Would your factory still run without you? Yes. Take a look at the French firm "FAVI". They're a brass foundry, I believe, and they work without any kind of boss. Your position is entirely expendable.

 

Would your factory still run without your workers? No.

 

Ergo: You workers make someone; you play boss when really your not needed. All in all, your position is useless.

[Blarghagh]

FAVI didn't START that way. It was a restructuring by their CEO in the 80's that made that happen. A group of potential workers would be unlikely to band together and create a succesful industrial complex like that out of the blue IMO - it started with at least a management structure and CEO to facilitate cooperation enough for that to be possible. I feel like both you and sharp_one oversimplify things in this case. Employees aren't cogs and "bosses" as a catch-all term aren't completely useless unless all you are is a name on the marquee.

[Hurlshort]

Specialization and discrimination are two very different things. I already covered that. Having an age-limit is different than racial discrimination.

[Gfted1]

I feel like I just lost IQ points reading Ben#3 post.

[Malcador]

I feel like I just lost IQ points reading Ben#3 post.

Careful, you're near single digits!

 

 

[Gfted1]

Careful, you're near single digits!

 

 

 

 

And its all you guys fault!

[Ben No.3]

Heh, I need to become a good person? Well at least the girl I touch is my girlfriend and not my employee.

[Blarghagh]

Guys, let's keep the personal attacks to a minimum. These threads are already on thin ice all the time.

 

Specialization and discrimination are two very different things. I already covered that. Having an age-limit is different than racial discrimination.

There's a recent discrimination case in the Netherlands that I find both funny and interesting. A longtime female firefighter filed a case that the new physical test to keep active as a firefighter was too hard for women and therefore made it inaccesible for women. So it was sexist because it doesn't discriminate, everyone takes the same test regardless of gender. Also, there were a couple hundred complaints from men that the test was far too difficult as well and the woman in question is reportedly in her 50's, so I feel like the case is kind of missing the point.

Edited July 5, 2017 by TrueNeutral

[Malcador]

 

Careful, you're near single digits!

 

 

 

And its all you guys fault!

Need a popup here warning of loss of intellect with continued reading Edited July 5, 2017 by Malcador

[redneckdevil]

Don't believe anything they report anyways, haven't for some time.

[HoonDing]

I stopped going to gay bars years ago. Too many guys come on to me.

[Malcador]

I think that's pretty funny. They put the screws to some Reddit peon. Meh.

Edited July 5, 2017 by Malcador

[Guard Dog]

In other news there is a budget crisis in the State of New Jersey. The Governor of New Jersey, former Presidential candidate Chris Christie, took the step to close all state parks until the funding impasse is broken. So popular public beaches like Island Beach State Park were closed to the public for the 4th of July holiday weekend. But... that didn't stop the governor from taking HIS family there. And since it was closed to the public they has the whole thing to themselves. 

 

http://nypost.com/2017/07/02/christie-caught-lounging-on-closed-beach-during-budget-standoff/

 

Proving once again, "All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others"

[injurai]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world-0/alibaba-founder-jack-ma-has-a-brutal-theory-of-how-america-went-wrong-over-the-past-30-years-a7821396.html