Politics Episode 8: WWF Edition

[Malcador]

I wonder, do Gay bars open up that way or do they become that way over time? If I owned a bar I'd want to attract the crowd that drank the most ****tails. Most bars I understand make about $0.10 per 8oz of draft beer, $0.30 per bottled beer, and $1.70 per ounce on booze.

I think most that have that label open that way, at least these days . Bars in my neighborhood have a lot of gay patrons but no one calls them gay bars.

 

Related trivia http://www.history.com/news/how-the-mob-helped-establish-nycs-gay-bar-scene

[Guard Dog]

 

@Sharp One: Your home is not open to the public. If it were, for example if you operated a restaurant from you home then it becomes open to the public if you advertise and invite the public in. Then you don't get to discriminate who comes in, unless they violate a reasonable rule of your establishment (dress code for example). If your restaurant were not open to the general public, say it were invitation only, then it would qualify for the private club exception. 

 

You see the difference here?

What if I DON'T "advertise and invite the public in" and I only advertise and invite one groups and not the other?

What if I have, like now, a production company? It's closed to the public you cannot come in from a street, you need to be an employee, invited client, arranged supplier and such? Can I decide whom do I sell and whom I don't? If I get a call and I here "Salut", "Shalom", "Salam alaikum" etc. can I answer "Sorry, we don't make business with you guys?

 

If no, then your argument is again invalid as the "publicly open" rule does not apply but the laws still do.

If yes, then basically this law could be avoided by simply closing the door or putting bouncers/selectors at the entrance. Which again proves how insane this law is.

 

If you did that then yes will likely see the inside of a courtroom soon after. If you were in the US. 

[Blarghagh]

FAVI didn't START that way. It was a restructuring by their CEO in the 80's that made that happen. A group of potential workers would be unlikely to band together and create a succesful industrial complex like that out of the blue IMO - it started with at least a management structure and CEO to facilitate cooperation enough for that to be possible. I feel like both you and sharp_one oversimplify things in this case. Employees aren't cogs and "bosses" as a catch-all term aren't completely useless unless all you are is a name on the marquee.

[Hurlshort]

Specialization and discrimination are two very different things. I already covered that. Having an age-limit is different than racial discrimination.

[Gfted1]

I feel like I just lost IQ points reading Ben#3 post.

[Malcador]

I feel like I just lost IQ points reading Ben#3 post.

Careful, you're near single digits!

 

 

[Gfted1]

Careful, you're near single digits!

 

 

 

 

And its all you guys fault!

[Blarghagh]

Guys, let's keep the personal attacks to a minimum. These threads are already on thin ice all the time.

 

Specialization and discrimination are two very different things. I already covered that. Having an age-limit is different than racial discrimination.

There's a recent discrimination case in the Netherlands that I find both funny and interesting. A longtime female firefighter filed a case that the new physical test to keep active as a firefighter was too hard for women and therefore made it inaccesible for women. So it was sexist because it doesn't discriminate, everyone takes the same test regardless of gender. Also, there were a couple hundred complaints from men that the test was far too difficult as well and the woman in question is reportedly in her 50's, so I feel like the case is kind of missing the point.

Edited July 5, 2017 by TrueNeutral

[Malcador]

 

Careful, you're near single digits!

 

 

 

And its all you guys fault!

Need a popup here warning of loss of intellect with continued reading Edited July 5, 2017 by Malcador

[redneckdevil]

Don't believe anything they report anyways, haven't for some time.

[HoonDing]

I stopped going to gay bars years ago. Too many guys come on to me.

[Malcador]

I think that's pretty funny. They put the screws to some Reddit peon. Meh.

Edited July 5, 2017 by Malcador

[Guard Dog]

In other news there is a budget crisis in the State of New Jersey. The Governor of New Jersey, former Presidential candidate Chris Christie, took the step to close all state parks until the funding impasse is broken. So popular public beaches like Island Beach State Park were closed to the public for the 4th of July holiday weekend. But... that didn't stop the governor from taking HIS family there. And since it was closed to the public they has the whole thing to themselves. 

 

http://nypost.com/2017/07/02/christie-caught-lounging-on-closed-beach-during-budget-standoff/

 

Proving once again, "All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others"

[injurai]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world-0/alibaba-founder-jack-ma-has-a-brutal-theory-of-how-america-went-wrong-over-the-past-30-years-a7821396.html

[Namutree]

It's interesting that Namutree mentioned social engineering when that is exactly what you had going on before the Civil Rights Act. I assume you think it is morally reprehensible to not allow black people to sit at the same tables as white people at restaurants, etc. You had a culture of systematic and blatant discrimination in this country. It didn't happen by accident, it was engineered over centuries by one race over another. 

 

I'm not a fan of big government, but I'm not sure what you see as a solution here that doesn't involve the government. Race wars?

Prior to the civil rights act the state governments were making economic integration illegal. Then the federal government flipped the switch and made economic segregation illegal. Neither is appropriate. The proper solution was to put an end to any laws regarding segregation in business. Those that wanted integrated business would have it, and those didn't wouldn't. No one's rights are violated, and the government's oppression of blacks would be ended.

 

It was not "one race over another". It was an institution over everyone. If total segregation was the will of whites across the board then segregation laws would need not exist since everyone would do that anyway. In fact, they were conceived because businesses that do not discriminate against other races out compete those that do. The market will resolve the matter on it's own.

 

The solution to the race issue was to change hearts and minds; not impose the governments will. All state mandated interaction does is foster resentment. I'll go even further and suggest that if not for the government imposing integration on business; race relations would be MUCH better than they are now. Who's racist and who isn't would be clear as day, and not obscured as it is now which is a big part of the problem. 

 

Light is a disinfectant. Forced integration does not solve the problem; it merely covers it up. 

[Agiel]

Another entertaining and insightful newsletter from Richard Aboulafia on aviation and Brexit and economic nationalism:

 

 

Dear Fellow Le Bourget Melted Tarmac Connoisseurs,

Spexit. I didn’t invent this funny word; it currently gets 49,100 Google hits, and refers to a Spanish EU exit. It’s not a popular idea. Even in Catalonia, where I am now, where just under half the population is pro-independence, open borders and the EU are still hugely popular. This is because the idea of economic nationalism is discredited here. The last guy who promised to Make Spain Great Again died 40 years ago. Spain was stagnant under Franco; even when the economy was okay it was a sluggish, inbred society. The local aerospace industry reflected this stagnation. As the UK confronts Brexit, it might want to reflect upon Spain’s experience.

I first visited Spain thirtysomething years ago, and the country was still afflicted with the dismal echoes of Francoist autarky. There wasn’t much innovation, since out-of-box thinkers were routinely exiled, or shot. The military was just beginning to figure out that the enemy was located outside the country, not inside it. The country’s aerospace industry was focused on building aircraft for national requirements. It seldom worked with global partners, and seldom built anything exportable. CASA’s corporate history, a lovely two-volume cloth-bound set, shows little work of lasting value being done by the company before the 1980s.

After Franco began his valiant struggle to remain dead (per 1975 Saturday Night Live), Spain opened up. So did its aero industry. CASA partnered with other companies in other countries, took more risk-sharing partnerships, and ultimately was absorbed by Airbus. Aernnova emerged as a noteworthy structures firm. ITP emerged as a global engine partner company, to be acquired by Rolls-Royce. Spain’s A400M and Eurofighter assembly lines may be the last of their kind.

Today, Spain produces many important composite structures, systems, and turbine components, but almost all for global customers. This isn’t the same as producing planes under license or building small props for local use, but it is generally profitable. Much of the country’s economy has morphed along similar lines; SEAT, for example, was like CASA for cars, and like CASA it is now owned by a global company (Volkswagen). That’s why nobody takes Spexit seriously. It was already tried under Franco, and it was dumb. 

The UK is a different story. The Brexiteers promised to Make Britain Great Again. They won. And from an aerospace perspective, that’s intriguing, because unlike Spain, the UK’s aerospace industry has a truly glorious past. But it was seldom, if ever, a profitable past.

Worse, the UK Government shows no signs of funding or supporting a return to this past. The RAF’s F-35s are coming from a foreign line, with Pratt engines and no plans to restore UK fighter sovereignty. In fact, right after the Brexit vote, at Farnborough last year, the government announced big plans to buy AH-64Es and P-8s from Boeing, but with nothing for UK industry. The original Apache buy came with mandated local production by Westland (Leonardo today) and Rolls-Royce engines. This time, Boeing will rebuild the helicopters, and they will use GE engines. Similarly, the P-8 buy comes with no local content (other than what’s baselined on all P-8s). Britain’s long history of building maritime patrol aircraft – Shackletons and Nimrods in the post-War era – has conclusively ended.

Without a back-to-the-future plan, the UK aerospace industry will stay on its current path: as globalized as Spain’s, only much larger and more important (to the UK economy and to the world). All Airbus wings – over 1,200 per year – are produced in Britain, with their parts imported from all over the world. Some 90% of GKN’s business is outside the UK, with a similar percentage for Rolls-Royce and other UK firms. So, the future of UK industry depends on the terms of Brexit. 

Yet the road to Brexit is not starting well. This month’s election produced comically disastrous results for Prime Minister Theresa May, who somehow managed to make opposition leader Jeremy Corbyn look like a serious person, which he isn’t. A weakened May still insists that “Brexit means Brexit” but seems to have no idea about how to handle the upcoming negotiations with the EU. They have two years (from March) to come to an agreement, and the EU has every incentive to make this painful to the UK, as a cautionary lesson for other would-be EU exiters.

The default outcome of these negotiations is no deal, or a hard Brexit. The UK would need to negotiate its own trade agreements, quickly, and hope that the EU would be generous with them. Without new agreements, all those aero components coming in to the UK could be inspected and taxed. All those UK wings and engines going out of the UK could be inspected and taxed. Engineers and workers crossing borders could need new professional certifications, work visas, and be subject to income taxes.

That’s just the start of it. Pan-European technology development funds would dry up. Air access agreements would need re-negotiation. The age of pan-European programs will likely come to an end, since Germany would be unlikely to work on future European military aircraft without UK involvement. Notably, in May Germany requested its first classified F-35 briefing. This month, El País reported that Spain will likely follow them.

The rest of the world seems to be slowly backing away from closed borders. The Trump administration has reversed every single daft Make America Great Again anti-trade idea it ever proposed, particularly the ghastly Border Adjustment Tax (more at tinyurl.com/yb52qqfa). France’s Emmanuel Macron campaigned and won in May on a globalization agenda. Germany’s Angela Merkel and Canada’s Justin Trudeau are proving able champions for the cause too. Only Theresa May’s Britain is still eagerly paddling towards the economic nationalism waterfall. 

Almost everyone in Spain knows that Spanish aerospace can’t go back to the old days. I’m not completely sure that everyone in the UK, particularly in government, has quite absorbed that lesson. It is highly unlikely that a hard Brexit will be an extinction-level event for UK aerospace. But it’s deeply unpleasant to watch them take that chance. 

June Aircraft Binder updates include the F-35, V-22, and 737/P-8 reports, and the Regional Aircraft overview. There’s a new Cirrus Vision Jet report too. Have a great month.

Yours, ‘Til A Brexited Westland Helicopters Creates Another 1980s-Type UK Political Crisis,
Richard Aboulafia

Edited July 5, 2017 by Agiel

[Zoraptor]

I think that's pretty funny. They put the screws to some Reddit peon. Meh.

 

There's a fair bit of amusement to be had, starting with CNN having that as their lead story over DPRK's ICBM launch. Also, CNN's actions are potentially at least illegal and it ought to get CNN banned from reddit as well. Neither of which will actually happen, of course, but still.

 

Indeed, it's a both hilarious and yet oh so depressing thought that CNN may actually have spent more time and effort trying to dox someone who posted a satirical wrestling gif of them than they put into fact checking the entire lead up to the 2003 Iraq War.

[Gromnir]

the story is kinda "meh."

 

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/analysis-how-cnn-managed-to-anger-everyone-by-finding-then-shielding-the-creator-of-that-trump-wrestling-meme/ar-BBDOabG?li=AA5a8k&ocid=spartanntp

 

no doxing. no fifteen year-old. nothing obvious illegal.  

 

cnn did look kinda foolish for seeming going all "better hope there are no "tapes"" on some kinda middle-aged reddit troll.  the seeming implied threat were childish.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Volourn]

Do you buy that nonsense? This is c lear case of bullying, intimidation, and doxing threat. But, that is evil Nazi CNN for ya. I can't believe I once took them seriously. LMFAO.

[Malcador]

 

I think that's pretty funny. They put the screws to some Reddit peon. Meh.

 

There's a fair bit of amusement to be had, starting with CNN having that as their lead story over DPRK's ICBM launch. Also, CNN's actions are potentially at least illegal and it ought to get CNN banned from reddit as well. Neither of which will actually happen, of course, but still.

 

Indeed, it's a both hilarious and yet oh so depressing thought that CNN may actually have spent more time and effort trying to dox someone who posted a satirical wrestling gif of them than they put into fact checking the entire lead up to the 2003 Iraq War.

 

 

Doesn't seem like all that much effort was needed (Reddit user being a careless moron, shock!), but certainly is weird that they'd waste time on it. Do get some satisfaction seeing some troll-type poster get squeezed a bit and buckling. Not sure why CNN would get banned from Reddit due to this, Daily Mail is still allowed to post there along with a lot of other crank sites (The Rebel is the one I'm seeing a lot of, go figure Canada has a lot of angry right wing cranks). So not like they have much of standards

 

Hopefully the guy's name does get leaked, though. That'd make this comedy complete.

Edited July 6, 2017 by Malcador

[Hurlshort]

I am a bit surprised the kid didn't run with it. He could probably make some decent cash on the talk show circuit.

[Volourn]

I know, seriously. Unless he is some cold blooded murder or has some major public job 9thoguh why would someone like that have time to do this) why would he  be scared?

 

I mean, seriously. All he did was edit some silly video. That happens ALL THE TIME. I'm sure I'm seen that same vid edited to mock Trump before tooo. Or like when he got  stunnered by Steve Austin I saw vid changing Austin to others - Ithink even Hillary Clinton pre election. LMAO

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

I'd feel bad but anything bad happening to a redditor is good.

In other news there is a budget crisis in the State of New Jersey. The Governor of New Jersey, former Presidential candidate Chris Christie, took the step to close all state parks until the funding impasse is broken. So popular public beaches like Island Beach State Park were closed to the public for the 4th of July holiday weekend. But... that didn't stop the governor from taking HIS family there. And since it was closed to the public they has the whole thing to themselves. 

 

http://nypost.com/2017/07/02/christie-caught-lounging-on-closed-beach-during-budget-standoff/

 

Proving once again, "All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others"

I already struggle to tell the difference between Christie and a pig.

[HoonDing]

the kid was workin for CNN all along

[Gromnir]

I am a bit surprised the kid didn't run with it. He could probably make some decent cash on the talk show circuit.

 

the kid is some middle-aged internet troll who might have a job and co-workers and friends and family. is not easy being outed as an overt racist in 2017 America, eh?  is not the video which would get the middle-aged gif creator into trouble, but his rather considerable posting history.  like it or not, the President made the "kid" newsworthy, and cnn, or any other outlet choosing to publish his identity, would be well within legal and ethical rights to do so. gif guy wakes up tomorrow and need face the scorn and ridicule o' those closest to him?  am having little difficulty imagining why middle-aged troll wants to retain his anonymity, though we would have at least some measure o' respect for him if he sacked-up and outed himself rather than withering under the implied cnn threat.  

 

...

 

well, no.  in retrospect, whether trollman showed courage or not, we would still think o' him as a d-bag.

 

also, am doubting the guy woulda' been offered any money by anybody to share his story.  the useful part o' his story were already out there for free.  the pro-trump/alt-right 'news' sites already got a perceived image problem and lionizing such a guy would bite 'em in the arse.  is best for the alt-right to focus on cnn's sin and try and pretend hand______ solo doesn't exist.  guy is a middle-aged basement troll or somesuch?  another joshua goldberg? (thanks again to wod for making mr. goldberg relevant) the only way somebody pays for middle-aged trollman's fifteen minutes is if he makes the alt-right look good by doing so.  keeping this guy anonymous is likely the best possible outcome for trump supporters.

 

HA! Good Fun!