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Please God Make Obsidian Make Non-Combat Level Quest!


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It's the first thing fans of the game remembers when this game shows up. Here's an epic level/quest design. Why not make It happen?

 

 I think I said enough. 

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I'll stand by that the V:TMB haunted hotel was my favorite piece of level design in a cRPG. That being said, doing something similar (and cool) probably won't work so well in a party based isometric perspective, with combat being a primary draw for the game.

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It's the first thing fans of the game remembers when this game shows up. Here's an epic level/quest design. Why not make It happen?

 

 I think I said enough. 

Yeah. That place is great....the *first* time through.

 

Every time thereafter, it sucks serious balls.

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Hmm. I guess I'm not understanding how this is any different than how Pillars 1 was set up. The only combat-related XP given was ostensibly for unlocking Beatiary entries.

"Art and song are creations but so are weapons and lies"

"Our worst enemies are inventions of the mind. Pleasure. Fear. When we see them for what they are, we become unstoppable."

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Maybe the OP meant more quests that don't involve any combat at all, and perhaps some puzzles. There's already some in PoE1 that don't involve combat.

 

With more emphasis on exploration and the political intrigue stuff in that island city, it seems like there very well could be.

Edited by smjjames
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It's the first thing fans of the game remembers when this game shows up. Here's an epic level/quest design. Why not make It happen?

 

 I think I said enough. 

Yeah. That place is great....the *first* time through.

 

Every time thereafter, it sucks serious balls.

 

 

Speak for yourself.  I enjoy that place everytime I play the game.

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Maybe the OP meant more quests that don't involve any combat at all, and perhaps some puzzles. There's already some in PoE1 that don't involve combat.

 

With more emphasis on exploration and the political intrigue stuff in that island city, it seems like there very well could be.

Ah, I see. Considering that they include "tactical combat" as a pillar of game, I doubt they will do too much of that, but I know they've already showcased one quest where there will be non-combat options for part of it. Also, Josh has said that they are going reduce...I think the term he used was "encounter density" (meaning fewer fights with more variation)

"Art and song are creations but so are weapons and lies"

"Our worst enemies are inventions of the mind. Pleasure. Fear. When we see them for what they are, we become unstoppable."

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I don't like everything being solvable through dialogue in a game like this where you have 4+ men geared for combat with all the abilities and shiet, Otherwise why am I being rewarded with all the cool abilities & gear? That said I wouldn't mind inclusion of a few non-combat quests. If you want more go *read* TToN.

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Maybe the OP meant more quests that don't involve any combat at all, and perhaps some puzzles. There's already some in PoE1 that don't involve combat.

 

With more emphasis on exploration and the political intrigue stuff in that island city, it seems like there very well could be.

Ah, I see. Considering that they include "tactical combat" as a pillar of game, I doubt they will do too much of that, but I know they've already showcased one quest where there will be non-combat options for part of it. Also, Josh has said that they are going reduce...I think the term he used was "encounter density" (meaning fewer fights with more variation)

 

 

And sometimes, you can actually choose whether or not to enter combat. That kind of flexibility is nice too.

 

Also, I suspect that part of their reasoning for lowering encounter density is that the world is so much bigger.

 

@Quillon: All 'men'? What about women like Pallegina? heh.

Edited by smjjames
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I don't like everything being solvable through dialogue in a game like this where you have 4+ men geared for combat with all the abilities and shiet, Otherwise why am I being rewarded with all the cool abilities & gear? That said I wouldn't mind inclusion of a few non-combat quests. If you want more go *read* TToN.

Did he say every quest? I'm pretty sure he was talking about one.

 

As for OP, I'm all for that. VtMB was short of being a masterpiece.

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*YouTube link*

 

It's the first thing fans of the game remembers when this game shows up. Here's an epic level/quest design. Why not make It happen?

 

 I think I said enough.

 

I don't know about that. I've been a huge fan of this game, bought the box version on original release and the Steam version just for the exclusive mods.

 

The first thing I think of is Jeanette and the club with that song from Chasm lol

 

The haunted house level is good but I don't think something like this work well with this game. The camera angle calls for different type of gameplay as it is.

Just what do you think you're doing?! You dare to come between me and my prey? Is it a habit of yours to scurry about, getting in the way and causing bother?

 

What are you still bothering me for? I'm a Knight. I'm not interested in your childish games. I need my rest.

 

Begone! Lest I draw my nail...

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I, too, loved the game and that mission, but I don't think it's a good example. The non-combat parts of Pillars that can be memorable are dialogues, character and scripted interactions. Kee pin mind that the text bears most of the weight on a game such as this and that particular quest was all about visuals and sounds. What you should ask yourself is what are the most memorable moments of isometric RPGs?

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I, too, loved the game and that mission, but I don't think it's a good example. The non-combat parts of Pillars that can be memorable are dialogues, character and scripted interactions.

 

I tend to agree. I don't think it would be possible to pull off something like Ocean House mission in an isometric CRPG like Pillars. You just can't build tension in the same way when you're not in a first/third person perspective.

 

I wouldn't be opposed to some missions that are combat lite though, focusing on dialogue choices more, though I agree with Quillon's point and don't think these should be too widespread.

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I, too, loved the game and that mission, but I don't think it's a good example. The non-combat parts of Pillars that can be memorable are dialogues, character and scripted interactions.

 

I tend to agree. I don't think it would be possible to pull off something like Ocean House mission in an isometric CRPG like Pillars. You just can't build tension in the same way when you're not in a first/third person perspective.

 

I wouldn't be opposed to some missions that are combat lite though, focusing on dialogue choices more, though I agree with Quillon's point and don't think these should be too widespread.

 

 

Seems like the OP could explain what they were trying to say, if we're a bit confused or unsure on it. Besides the non-combat bit.

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Sorry for late post. I certainly didn't mean for a remake of that game or copy its design or something. I certainly didn't mean as a full Torment 3. 

All I said a -as one- non-combat quest level or dungeon.

 

That house was a very good introduction to a game. There were no monsters chasing you -like today's horror games- but It was still tense. It doesn't have any combat but merely small puzzles and a good mystery. 

 

That quest is alone started many articles or when talking about the game Itself. It was unique in all bunch of combat/stealth quests. Why can't Pillars have that one puzzle based interaction epic level/quest?

 

It certainly has the right setting to do! First of all, we are talking, seeing or reaching souls. Another fact, we are traveling island to island in a pirate theme. We can easily lurk around a ship wreckage and interact differently medium difficulty puzzles and solve a mystery about the dead pirate crew.

 

I have no problem with other things I just think Obsidian could dedicate one level for a quest which could give that "wow" effect because of its unique approach. People will always re-install RPGs for very that reason. Game "journalists" will certainly start their opinion with that one unique level/quest design. 

Edited by ruzen

Kana - "Sorry. It seems I'm not very good at raising spirits." Kana winces. "That was unintentional."

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POE seemed to be designed, from the start, as a combat-centric combat-heavy game... which, really, is what BGs/IWDs were. 

 

I certainly wouldn't mind them adding more meaningful noncombat gameplay - and making the CYOAs actually matter instead of tiny little injuries nobody ever gives a crap about. 

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POE seemed to be designed, from the start, as a combat-centric combat-heavy game... which, really, is what BGs/IWDs were. 

 

I certainly wouldn't mind them adding more meaningful noncombat gameplay - and making the CYOAs actually matter instead of tiny little injuries nobody ever gives a crap about. 

 

They can kill you in the case of the lift, or ruin the quest in the case of the egg.  That's hardly tiny.

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I wouldn't mind a couple of puzzle related stuff that are noncombat (or minimal combat) and are pure exploration.

 

In fact, I'd probably expect the city stuff to have significant non-combat portions due to the political intrigue and all. Plus the CYOA bits that can happen when travelling between districts.

Edited by smjjames
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I think it would benefit Deadfire to have not just one but several quests that do not revolve around combat OR dialogue, but rather force the player to pay attention to the environment. It's clear that obsidian has put some effort into their environments, I think one of the best ways to make players appreciate those better is to have an incentive to look around.

 

So something like a secret network that exists throughout the game, where you can find secret rooms in buildings for instance, would be a great way to showcase environment art.

Also note that combat isn't what everyone gets the most of their enjoyment out of. Pillars has a story-mode option for a reason. Having a large enough stack of non-combat quests not only pleases people like me, who didn't enjoy combat as much, but also gives the developers a different approach to providing challenging gameplay.

Diversity in quests and quest-types can only benefit Deadfire, IMO.

 

Edit: and I don't believe they just have to be limited to the few quest examples given in this thread.

Edited by JFSOCC
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I think it would benefit Deadfire to have not just one but several quests that do not revolve around combat OR dialogue, but rather force the player to pay attention to the environment. It's clear that obsidian has put some effort into their environments, I think one of the best ways to make players appreciate those better is to have an incentive to look around.

 

So something like a secret network that exists throughout the game, where you can find secret rooms in buildings for instance, would be a great way to showcase environment art.

Also note that combat isn't what everyone gets the most of their enjoyment out of. Pillars has a story-mode option for a reason. Having a large enough stack of non-combat quests not only pleases people like me, who didn't enjoy combat as much, but also gives the developers a different approach to providing challenging gameplay.

Diversity in quests and quest-types can only benefit Deadfire, IMO.

 

Edit: and I don't believe they just have to be limited to the few quest examples given in this thread.

 

Overall, I do support the idea a lot. One of the things which made Baldur's Gate 2 so memorable to me is how varied it was. I remember investigation quests just as much as epic combat ones. And with scripted interaction system they really could pull something special. Even if they do stick to using all, or most, of the "pillars" of PoE (combat, exploration, conversations) in majority of the quests, W3: Heart of Stone's wedding quest nicely show how you can shake up quests while still using established murder-related mechanics.

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Sorry for late post. I certainly didn't mean for a remake of that game or copy its design or something. I certainly didn't mean as a full Torment 3. 

All I said a -as one- non-combat quest level or dungeon.[...]

I don't oppose the idea, it's just I don't see how could it be pulled of. VTMB scene was great but as already said, it was first person which makes it easier to be immersive. Don't get me wrong, I like the idea and there are some non-combat parts on many isometric RPGs, but I'm not sure I see your example as a good example here (because how different the games are).

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Is it me or were there not plenty of non-combat quests and even whole levels in PoE? Entire Rodrec's castle could be finessed without killing a single person. Monastery in WM could be almost entirely (or maybe even entirely) solved without fighting. It's optional, but possible.

 

I think at least a quarter of quests I did could be resolved peacefully.

 

And what do you like the most about that VTMB level? The atmosphere? Puzzles? Something else? 

 

Level design as a catch phrase does not really describe well what is so good about it. I myself was really not impressed by it even when I first walked through the hotel.

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I hope for a little more puzzles, it's something that was present in a number of RPGs of old and now it's almost completely gone. Without going really far in the past even combat centric games had puzzles (KotOR 1/2, BG) and were big part of older ones.

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