Politics 2017 part 4

[Meshugger]

 

countermeasures I've placed around my home

 

Do you, by any chance, have anything against drone strikes? 

 

 

+1 

 

Asking for a friend.

[Ben No.3]

 

 

 

 

does it works? Any examples?

It exists in the heart of the Internet in the USA, the company I work for is involved in integration

 

We have no access at all to that environment as it is a secure site and they are our customers

 

so no examples right? Pretty much spending billions of cash to watch billions of people without no real reason

 

I have no idea how much a project like Prism costs but yes easily $20-50 Billion, check out this slide

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PRISM_(surveillance_program)#/media/File:Cover_slide_of_PRISM.jpg

 

But remember Prism and other surveillance systems, like I gained access to, aren't used all the time

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And now we are in the year 2017 and the war on Islamic extremism is going very well for countries opposed to groups like ISIS. Most of us live in countries that are Western and we have very good lives that use the foundation of what defines the West like freedom of speech and laws that protect your sexual orientation. We don't get arrested for criticizing our governments, its okay to marry the same sex, we have working government services in most cases and opportunities to study and get a good job

 

Its a good life, a very good life. And what gets asked of you Bennie? Nothing really except for the normal things like taxes...its not like you are being sent to fight in Afghanistan

 

So when you discover that a country like the USA has advanced active surveillance you should be grateful as now you can contribute towards your country by supporting this and if you not grateful then you should just accept it as part of your citizen contribution

 

I won't.

 

I do not accept that there has to be surveillance.

I do not accept that there has to be inequality.

I do not accept that there has to be exploitation.

I do not accept that there has to be oppression.

I do not accept that there has to be pollution.

I do not accept that there has to be poverty.

I do not accept that there has to be a status quo.

I do not accept "human nature" as a reason or a excuse for anything.

I do not accept that anything is unchangable.

 

Yes, the west has produced a lot of achievements. Needless to say, there are a vast number of mistakes and flaws in many ways. Some mistakes we created ourselves, some are inherent to our society. But it is my firm believe that a freer, fairer and more egalitarian society is not only theoretically possible but realistically archivable.

 

It is laughable to say I should be thankful or even proud to be under surveillance. Privacy is an essential component of freedom. If I sacrifice my privacy, my freedom dies with it. If my privacy is sacrificed by the government, my freedom is taken from me. Thus, surveillance is nothing but oppression of the people by the government. I see no reason as to why in any way I should support such an practice.

 

The world you, Bruce, imagine is not one I wish to live in. You praise conformity with obviously bad circumstances, and I am not willing to follow this teaching. I am not willing to sacrifice my ideals in the name of defending these exact ideals. Bruce, I hope I see this world you praise replaced by something better. I believe in a world where we might finally realise that a good and healthy life is a right, not a privilege.

 

That you defend a broken system is not exactly helping the cause. But don't expect me to masochistically praise said system.

Bennie I never said you would be under surveillance, I can give you an example but it cant be very specific due to the NDA

 

Lets say a US Ranger team in Afghanistan eliminates a Taliban unit and finds a certain cell phone number amongst all the information and documents

 

This would get sent back to the USA and eventually a copy gets sent to the NSA. Now then NSA would wait for approval or maybe a sign of a impending attack and then a filter would be created throughout the USA on the Internet and its various applications in the USA like Facebook

 

If this number is determined to have been used or someone tried to contact it raises a red flag and the US can investigate

 

But in order to do this you would have to analyze the flow of data from all people in the USA including you but you would never know or be aware of this as a US citizen

 

How is this a bad thing?

 

I explained why I find surveillance bad and you respond by telling me how surveillance works?

[ShadySands]

Bruce, I thought you were a supporter of the UN and a defender of human rights

[Gfted1]

Its like some of you are rediscovering fire for the first time, every day. Mass surveillance has existed for decades (longer than some of you have been alive), and somehow you've lived your lives just fine, but then someone tells you it exists and all of a sudden the wheels come off.

[Azdeus]

Bennie I never said you would be under surveillance, I can give you an example but it cant be very specific due to the NDA

 

Lets say   a US Ranger team in Afghanistan  eliminates a Taliban unit and finds a certain cell phone number amongst all the information and documents 

 

This would get sent back to the USA and eventually a copy gets sent to the NSA. Now then NSA  would wait for approval or maybe a sign of a impending attack and then a filter would be created throughout the USA  on the Internet and its various applications in the USA  like Facebook

 

If this number is determined to have been used or someone tried to contact it raises a red flag and the US  can investigate 

 

But in order to do this you would have to analyze the flow of  data from all people in the USA including you but you would never know or be aware of this as a US  citizen

 

How is this a bad thing?

"Bennie you're not under surveillance, it doesn't work like that"

"It works like this; They spy on everyone to find something"

 

You don't read or think about what you are saying much, do you?

[Ben No.3]

Its like some of you are rediscovering fire for the first time, every day. Mass surveillance has existed for decades (longer than some of you have been alive), and somehow you've lived your lives just fine, but then someone tells you it exists and all of a sudden the wheels come off.

Ridiculous accusation (mumbles rants about the unfairness of the world)

[BruceVC]

Bruce, I thought you were a supporter of the UN and a defender of human rights

 

I do, I believe in human rights but we have to balance that with security....the interesting thing about this digital surveillance is that because you are not aware of it I am honestly surprised anyone can feel aggrieved and feel there privacy is being undermined

 

So its like those riddles we see " can  we say our privacy has been undermined if we dont know about it and there is no negative impact to us " ?  Its paradoxical in nature but I hope everyone comes to the obvious conclusion....no we cant ?

 

 

 

Bennie I never said you would be under surveillance, I can give you an example but it cant be very specific due to the NDA

 

Lets say   a US Ranger team in Afghanistan  eliminates a Taliban unit and finds a certain cell phone number amongst all the information and documents 

 

This would get sent back to the USA and eventually a copy gets sent to the NSA. Now then NSA  would wait for approval or maybe a sign of a impending attack and then a filter would be created throughout the USA  on the Internet and its various applications in the USA  like Facebook

 

If this number is determined to have been used or someone tried to contact it raises a red flag and the US  can investigate 

 

But in order to do this you would have to analyze the flow of  data from all people in the USA including you but you would never know or be aware of this as a US  citizen

 

How is this a bad thing?

"Bennie you're not under surveillance, it doesn't work like that"

"It works like this; They spy on everyone to find something"

 

You don't read or think about what you are saying much, do you?

 

 

I cant keep explaining the same point guys ....last time for me

 

The surveillance systems that exist in places like the USA don't monitor US citizens 24/7

 

In places like China, North Korea or Russia they have overt and covert monitoring all the time. But what happens in the USA is the systems that monitor data get activated when needed and they look for specific data like the phone number 

 

This is very different to countries that monitor 24/7 where they will address automatically certain words or ideological debates all the time  

[Gfted1]

The Feds Already Have Your Face in a Database.

[Azdeus]

The Feds Already Have Your Face in a Database.

 

And the Swedish feds used to have my DNA(The PKU database), since birth together with every Swede born since 1975, until I forced them to destroy it after they wanted to allow private firms and the police to have access to it.

 

All such things should be destroyed or anonomized unless we are talking about convicted felons.

[Guard Dog]

[Gfted1]

And the Swedish feds used to have my DNA(The PKU database), since birth together with every Swede born since 1975, until I forced them to destroy it after they wanted to allow private firms and the police to have access to it.

 

All such things should be destroyed or anonomized unless we are talking about convicted felons.

I wish we did that here. We could probably slash crime by a lot.

[Azdeus]

 

 

The PKU biobank is a perfect example of good intentions gone/going horribly wrong and a slippery slope, in 1965 when it started it was intended for research only, then in 2003 a über-special snowflake (Politician) got murdered by a psycho in a mall and the police used the registry to compare some DNA they found. The biobank was very accomodating towards the police despite the fact that the police at the time wasn't allowed to do such a search.

And remember, parents gave their concent on the basis that the biobank was to be used only for research.

 

Then when the earthquake hit the Indian ocean and the following tsunami the biobank was once again opened to identify some dead victims.

After that, the right wing government wanted to allow the police full access to it to catch criminals (Wich they didn't get at the time) and now the "left" wing government wants to do the same, but also allow access to insurance companies.

 

I wish we did that here. We could probably slash crime by a lot.

To be honest, most Swedes don't even know of the PKU, if y'all want to slash crime you need to improve the social inequalities you have and give people some actual social security. But your people seem to think that is communism and the end to all forms of capitalism, nukes will fall, children will be born with a hammer and sickle birthmark and all firearms will be taken away from you in your sleep.

[Gfted1]

To be honest, most Swedes don't even know of the PKU, if y'all want to slash crime you need to improve the social inequalities you have and give people some actual social security. But your people seem to think that is communism and the end to all forms of capitalism, nukes will fall, children will be born with a hammer and sickle birthmark and all firearms will be taken away from you in your sleep.

Yeah yeah, I know the drill. Just give away more and the ship will right itself.

 

BTW, what makes you sure they destroyed your sample? Because they told you they did? Did you see them throw your blood slide into a foundry?

[HoonDing]

(((They))) know who you are.

[Wrath of Dagon]

Making people dependent on the government is what actually drives the high US crime rates.

 

Edit: Oh, btw, https://twitter.com/StateDept/status/481278545885663232

Edited April 5, 2017 by Wrath of Dagon

[Azdeus]

Yeah yeah, I know the drill. Just give away more and the ship will right itself.

 

BTW, what makes you sure they destroyed your sample? Because they told you they did? Did you see them throw your blood slide into a foundry?

In my case, because I personally knew one working there, otherwise you're right, you don't actually 'know' they've destroyed it, but if you want to go down the rabbit hole that far you will soon be institutionalized anyway

 

Making people dependent on the government is what actually drives the high US crime rates.

 

Or is it because people have no choice, amongst other things, due to lack of affordable education for food but turn to crime drives the US crime rates.

 

Edit; The entire last sentance. Way tired.

Edited April 5, 2017 by Azdeus

[Elerond]

The Feds Already Have Your Face in a Database.

 

Isn't that bit old news, because now its been at least for 11 years that order to get passport one needs to give clear picture of your face and fingerprints to government who will share them with other governments.

[Hurlshort]

There is a massive amount of wiggle room between 'making people dependent on the government' and 'improving social inequalities'. We live in a time of rather obscene wealth division.

[Gfted1]

In my case, because I personally knew one working there, otherwise you're right, you don't actually 'know' they've destroyed it, but if you want to go down the rabbit hole that far you will soon be institutionalized anyway

Can any Swedish citizen formally request the government to destroy their DNA sample, or did you just get hooked up by a buddy?

 

Isn't that bit old news, because now its been at least for 11 years that order to get passport one needs to give clear picture of your face and fingerprints to government who will share them with other governments.

Interesting. I don't remember providing my fingerprints for my passport, but its been a while so maybe I did?

[BruceVC]

There is a massive amount of wiggle room between 'making people dependent on the government' and 'improving social inequalities'. We live in a time of rather obscene wealth division.

Do we really live in that type of division, what would be an example of this?

 

Before you consider answering this remember you have to ask yourself what the person who lives in obscene wealth does for a living and how they achieved this

[Hurlshort]

 

There is a massive amount of wiggle room between 'making people dependent on the government' and 'improving social inequalities'. We live in a time of rather obscene wealth division.

Do we really live in that type of division, what would be an example of this?

 

Before you consider answering this remember you have to ask yourself what the person who lives in obscene wealth does for a living and how they achieved this

 

 

They are probably bankers. I'm on to you Bruce!

[BruceVC]

 

 

There is a massive amount of wiggle room between 'making people dependent on the government' and 'improving social inequalities'. We live in a time of rather obscene wealth division.

Do we really live in that type of division, what would be an example of this?

 

Before you consider answering this remember you have to ask yourself what the person who lives in obscene wealth does for a living and how they achieved this

 

 

They are probably bankers. I'm on to you Bruce!

 

Its not quite what you thinking but its not far off 

 

You see I have this particular debate probably every 2 weeks with different people all over the world and even though the question or the criticism may appear completely different to your question the expected answer is often similar 

 

People ask questions like 

 

• why do we have such an unequal economic society
• how do we end the monopoly and collusion of the banks
• why is the West trying to control our economy 
• why does our government  pander to the financial sector or allow foreign  countries to dictate to us

 

And the expected answer or outcome is suppose to be something like

• the banks control the economies of the world and surreptitiously manipulate events to control a certain narrative
• the banks are products of the West and should never be trusted 

[Katphood]

Let's see if this brings us any closer to WW3. But yeah, this is probably how Russians respond to a terrorist attack on their soil.

[Elerond]

 

Isn't that bit old news, because now its been at least for 11 years that order to get passport one needs to give clear picture of your face and fingerprints to government who will share them with other governments.

Interesting. I don't remember providing my fingerprints for my passport, but its been a while so maybe I did?

 

 

It seems that USA only demands such thing from foreign passports and even though US Passports also now have biometric chip where such data could be saved and read from distance it isn't used.

 

Clearly we need to take visa free travelling from people travelling with US Passports as they clearly have insecure passports 

[Orogun01]

The Feds Already Have Your Face in a Database.

That is why I'm learning make up and special effects. One day I will commit all my crimes with impunity just by being someone else.