The US Election, Part XI

[Hurlshort]

America elected Trump because nobody showed up to vote for Clinton. He got less votes than McCain or Romney.

Edited November 18, 2016 by Hurlshot

[Bartimaeus]

Two million less than McCain, one million less than Romney, if I recall correctly. Hillary got, what, 10 or 11 million less than Obama in 2008?

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

 

the economy is disintegrating with globalisation+automation

 

"ever think about how bad we had to **** up to create a world where robots taking all the jobs is somehow a bad thing?"

All the time. It's a very bad thing under a sysyem where a small percentage effectively owns production and distribution with the rest being required to sell labor in some way for survival. Edited November 18, 2016 by KaineParker

[BruceVC]

 

 

the economy is disintegrating with globalisation+automation

"ever think about how bad we had to **** up to create a world where robots taking all the jobs is somehow a bad thing?"

All the time. It's a very bad thing under a sysyem where a small percentage effectively owns production and distribution with the rest being required to sell labor in some way for survival.

 

KP can i ask you a different question and I was rude earlier so I apologize 

 

Are you proud to be a US citizen, this obviously has nothing to do with the other previous  relevant issues you mentioned ?

[Drowsy Emperor]

America elected Trump because nobody showed up to vote for Clinton. He got less votes than McCain or Romney.

 

Okay, so 60+ million people voted for him because they had nothing better to do that day

 

That's an ass backwards way of looking at it too. Its much harder to get votes as Donald Trump than it is as McCain or Romney. If they had the kind of media machinery against them that he did they probably get half as much.

Actually if they had that kind of bias against them they'd never get to run a campaign in the first place. 

Edited November 18, 2016 by Drowsy Emperor

[Leferd]

America elected Trump because nobody showed up to vote for Clinton. He got less votes than McCain or Romney.

 

To be fair, that's because all the votes hadn't been counted yet when these "low turnout" reports started coming in. In this election cycle, fear and hate trumps love.

 

 

As of a couple days ago, the count had 58.1% total eligible voter turnout vs. 58.6% in 2012. The projection is that it'll be higher than 2012 once all the votes are officially tallied.

 

[Elerond]

 

I hope France leaves the EU. Also, the hilarity of Obama and the left warning people of fake news. Lol. They've done nothing but benefit from fake news by mainstream outlets. That scumbag can't get out of office soon enough. 

I am too tired to have this argument ....you win for now

 

But why would you think the EU collapsing is a good thing...can you name just 2 things?

 

 

It will add Russia's, China's, Iran's, Saudi Arabia's, India's political, military and economical power. It will European's poorer. It will decrease USA's political and military power.

 

So if one supports these things, then EU collapsing can be seen as good thing.

 

But I don't see why France would want to leave EU as all the countries they don't like in the union seem to select governments that are against EU and are on path to leave the union.

 

And Facebook should ban all fake news regardless of the source, so that journalists would again be forced to be journalists and write real news.

[Hurlshort]

That's interesting, I had not read we have been creeping up towards a stronger showing overall for voters.  I certainly agree that the media has been a total mess throughout this election.  Let me address a few of Boo's points:

 

Do you think that maybe sitting in the richest state of the richest country in the world has skewered your viewpoint a bit?

 

 

I love my state, but if my wife and I taught in most other states, we would be able to afford a house.  I'm not saying there aren't serious issues in the US and the Western world as a whole, I'm saying it is not in decline.  The benefits of the current age still outweigh the bad parts, but that doesn't mean we should not continue to strive for a better world.  

 

 

 

Okay, so 60+ million people voted for him because they had nothing better to do that day

 

 As the candidate of a major political party, that's pretty much how it works.  It was very impressive that he managed to overcome the numerous media and political outlets that tried to throw him under the bus.  But temper that with the fact that Clinton was a terrible candidate who also had a ton of criticism, and the fact that most voters simply fill in the bubbles for R's or D's.  If he won under a 3rd party, I'd be more likely to call it a revolution.  But it's not that.     

[Pidesco]

Let's not forget that most people that turn out to vote, vote Republican because they are Republicans or vote Democrat because they are Democrats. Who the candidate actually is, policy, economic factors don't have all that much influence on the popular vote. If not for the electoral college's winner takes all model, they influence bugger all.

 

I'm guessing that if you had an alternate reality where everything else was exactly the same but Trump was the Democratic candidate and Clinton was the Republican nominee, the popular vote results would have been about the same.

[Hurlshort]

Heck, just look at the people Trump is choosing as his cabinet.  There aren't a lot of shockers, they are party establishment guys.  

 

Also, the current news titans are in a terrible state of transition.  They are losing badly to the new internet age.  It's going to get worse for them.  We should weigh everything we read with a critical eye, because a lot of it is desperation reporting.   

[Nonek]

Have all the celebrities who swore to leave done so yet?

[licketysplit]

Have all the celebrities who swore to leave done so yet?

 

Nope. Life is too posh for them in the states. 

[Hurlshort]

Have all the celebrities who swore to leave done so yet?

 

Nah.  A bunch of them are getting some ridiculous freedom medal from the current President.  

[BruceVC]

 

 

I hope France leaves the EU. Also, the hilarity of Obama and the left warning people of fake news. Lol. They've done nothing but benefit from fake news by mainstream outlets. That scumbag can't get out of office soon enough. 

I am too tired to have this argument ....you win for now

 

But why would you think the EU collapsing is a good thing...can you name just 2 things?

 

 

It will add Russia's, China's, Iran's, Saudi Arabia's, India's political, military and economical power. It will European's poorer. It will decrease USA's political and military power.

 

So if one supports these things, then EU collapsing can be seen as good thing.

 

But I don't see why France would want to leave EU as all the countries they don't like in the union seem to select governments that are against EU and are on path to leave the union.

 

And Facebook should ban all fake news regardless of the source, so that journalists would again be forced to be journalists and write real news.

 

Elerond this is another very accurate and well informed post 

 

 

Guys  I hope everyone reads this, especially the last 2 paragraphs 

And for the record I doubt France will leave the EU because Le Penn wont come to power 

[aluminiumtrioxid]

And for the record I doubt France will leave the EU because Le Penn wont come to power 

 

Just like Brexit couldn't have happened and Trump couldn't have become president, right?

[BruceVC]

 

And for the record I doubt France will leave the EU because Le Penn wont come to power 

 

Just like Brexit couldn't have happened and Trump couldn't have become president, right?

 

 

 

No one likes a smartass alum

 

But yes I was going to mention this as its true....but Elerond and I still dont think it will happen. The French election is not the same as the US election or why Brexit happened 

[Pidesco]

 

 

Yeah, it's long but it's also relevant and insightful.

[Darkpriest]

 

 

And for the record I doubt France will leave the EU because Le Penn wont come to power 

 

Just like Brexit couldn't have happened and Trump couldn't have become president, right?

 

 

No one likes a smartass alum

 

But yes I was going to mention this as its true....but Elerond and I still dont think it will happen. The French election is not the same as the US election or why Brexit happened 

 

 

oh, you are right on one point. it is not the same as it is not bipolar. Le Pen will most likely win, but the question is, can she win with enough marigin, that will give her party autonomous rule, or will she need someone to coalition and thus go on compromise. I can assure you that French have had enough... this migrant crisis is just another thorng and probably a drop to spill the bucket.

 

I mean, have you been in Calais recently? or worse, have you been in central Paris? it's a proverbial **** hole on the main streets as people are building camps there... the recent terror attacks in last year are also a point that is in favof of Le Pen, worse economic situation of "middle class" similarly to US and UK... the current generation of 30s is the first generation, which is actually less wealthy in terms of purchase power than their parents... and that's a recipe for a disaster... not only that, but also the fact that natives are in demographic slump and there is aging society stretching state's fund to intolerable margins.

[BruceVC]

 

 

 

And for the record I doubt France will leave the EU because Le Penn wont come to power 

 

Just like Brexit couldn't have happened and Trump couldn't have become president, right?

 

 

No one likes a smartass alum

 

But yes I was going to mention this as its true....but Elerond and I still dont think it will happen. The French election is not the same as the US election or why Brexit happened 

 

 

oh, you are right on one point. it is not the same as it is not bipolar. Le Pen will most likely win, but the question is, can she win with enough marigin, that will give her party autonomous rule, or will she need someone to coalition and thus go on compromise. I can assure you that French have had enough... this migrant crisis is just another thorng and probably a drop to spill the bucket.

 

I mean, have you been in Calais recently? or worse, have you been in central Paris? it's a proverbial **** hole on the main streets as people are building camps there... the recent terror attacks in last year are also a point that is in favof of Le Pen, worse economic situation of "middle class" similarly to US and UK... the current generation of 30s is the first generation, which is actually less wealthy in terms of purchase power than their parents... and that's a recipe for a disaster... not only that, but also the fact that natives are in demographic slump and there is aging society stretching state's fund to intolerable margins.

 

Is it really that bad, it sounds terrible ? That needs to be addressed, what is Le penn going to do in the outcome she does win?

 

 

I haven't been to France for about 10 years ?

[Darkpriest]

 

 

 

 

And for the record I doubt France will leave the EU because Le Penn wont come to power 

 

Just like Brexit couldn't have happened and Trump couldn't have become president, right?

 

 

No one likes a smartass alum

 

But yes I was going to mention this as its true....but Elerond and I still dont think it will happen. The French election is not the same as the US election or why Brexit happened 

 

 

oh, you are right on one point. it is not the same as it is not bipolar. Le Pen will most likely win, but the question is, can she win with enough marigin, that will give her party autonomous rule, or will she need someone to coalition and thus go on compromise. I can assure you that French have had enough... this migrant crisis is just another thorng and probably a drop to spill the bucket.

 

I mean, have you been in Calais recently? or worse, have you been in central Paris? it's a proverbial **** hole on the main streets as people are building camps there... the recent terror attacks in last year are also a point that is in favof of Le Pen, worse economic situation of "middle class" similarly to US and UK... the current generation of 30s is the first generation, which is actually less wealthy in terms of purchase power than their parents... and that's a recipe for a disaster... not only that, but also the fact that natives are in demographic slump and there is aging society stretching state's fund to intolerable margins.

 

Is it really that bad, it sounds terrible ? That needs to be addressed, what is Le penn going to do in the outcome she does win?

 

 

I haven't been to France for about 10 years ?

 

 

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-europe-migrants-paris-idUSKBN12Z0JR

[ShadySands]

If Mattis becomes SecDef.....

 

I can't even

[licketysplit]

I rather like quote #2. Words to live by.

[Zoraptor]

Most of those quotes seem reasonable, in a military context. I don't really expect a deeply introspective examination of man's inhumanity to man and exhortations to take up mung bean farming in an anarchist commune from the military; I expect gung-ho bombast and self embiggening mixed with some trash talking. I'm completely unfamiliar with Mattis otherwise though, and with most of Trump's appointments. Doesn't seem to be much point finding anything out about potential appointments since the 'likely' picks of the media don't seem to have been very accurate so far.

 

Individual pagination of the quotes on the other hand, I'd like to unleash the "world's most respected and feared fighting force" on that click harvesting technique. Metaphorically of course, no need to bloody your kukris lads.

Edited November 18, 2016 by Zoraptor

[Malcador]

Always think it better to have a non military person be the civilian leadership. Though most think otherwise.

 

I guess it is good if you have some overly pushy type like Rummy

[Zoraptor]

Trump would still be the military's leader, and he is a civilian. In theory the idea of having a civilian as Minister of Defence/ Secretary of Defense is great, in practice though it's more questionable.

 

Depends on the people involved of course, but I'd find it difficult to believe that if, for example, Rumsfeld and Powell's cabinet positions were reversed there would have been half as much trouble in Iraq post invasion. I couldn't see Powell disbanding the Iraqi military and putting 100,000s of resentful, unemployed, unpaid but trained fighters on the streets or most of the other Rumsfeld/ Brenner stuff ups. Same with Brenner as well, his predecessor Garner was military and made practical rather than doctrinaire decisions during his brief time in charge, Brenner otoh was pure Rummy stooge doctrine and was a disaster. The danger is of course that a military secdef is biased either towards the military as a whole or towards their specific branch. But that's also a danger for a civilian secdef as well- in either case it's about picking the right guy/ gal whatever their background.