The US Election 2016, Part V

[HoonDing]

Who's the most famous Texan today? Used to be J.R. Ewing for decades.

[Wrath of Dagon]

Probably Ted Cruz, though that might be infamous.

[Guard Dog]

There are just a handful of states that could survive as an independent nation. Texas would be the most likely to succeed. On the day it walks away it will be the 12th largest economy in the world.

 

Now ignoring for a moment the massive problems such a move would cause (citizens leaving, influx of others, businesses leaving because business hates uncertainty) Texas would need three things to survive. 1) First and foremost they will need an amicable relationship with the US who is automatically their largest commerce partner. Seems like a stretch since they just divorced. 2) They need a government that maximizes the benefits of doing business in Texas. That means low tax, low regulation, few checks on land and resource exploitation. That means a Government that has less in the beginning and does less. Which leads to 3) The citizens are going to have to be willing to weather some lean years, some scarcity of imports until new trade deals are worked out, and a government that does less for them.

 

It's daunting but it can be done.

 

Now I've made it clear that the United States will cease to be "united" at some point. But it will be a big event that causes it. Suspending the Constitution (or a Constitutional Convention might do it) and some mad act by the Federal Government, or a zombie apocalypse or something. If you think about it, the United States really because the country it is on 6/21/1788,(not 7/4/1776) which makes it the 4th oldest continuous government in the world. That is unusual and it a testament to our people and the brainchild of our founders. I hope and pray it continues on forever but that would be bucking history in a big way. 

[Gromnir]

the children of illegal immigrants? they aren't illegal if they are born on US soil. duh. 

 

california has 1/3 more population and 2x as many illegals than does texas. nevertheless, the % o' the california population benefiting from SNAP is also significant less than texas (just north o' 10%) and making it #10 on list o' lowest % o' SNAP beneficiaries, in spite o' more ca illegals and their underclass children. and we already mentioned the much skewed tax dollar issue which you mischaracterize. ca does not have a higher percentage o' upper class than any other state, so kinda misleading.  and there is a .1% difference 'tween high income in ca and texas, in spite o' significant higher cost of living.  ca has also only benefited from a 1.3% gain for upper class since 2000. texas has increased 1.9% since 2000, so since figures is accurate only to 2013, texas has likely already surpassed ca for % o' high income citizens.

 

"We wouldn't be a pauper nation, without the federal government pulling us back, we'd be the most prosperous, freest nation in the world."

 

sure.  sure.  right after wod discovers the cure for cancer in armadillo p00p, every texan would have his own private 18-hole golf course, and you would all ride the lab-created dinosaurs wod created.  when you get tired o' living in the fantasy world, come back to us.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Wrath of Dagon]

SNAP rates aren't solely due to illegals of course (and that's not what I said, I said Federal policies in general) and there are plenty of historical differences between Texas and California. Anyway it has nothing to do with Texas seceding. I'll guaranty that if we ever do secede, there'll be a lot less people receiving welfare of any kind in Texas than in California.

Edited August 18, 2016 by Wrath of Dagon

[Gromnir]

SNAP rates aren't solely due to illegals of course (and that's not what I said, I said Federal policies in general)

yes, you were extreme vague about policies in general, which is why we addressed your only concrete claims and concerns. and yeah, we suspect that less people would receive welfare if texas seceded.  again, did you not understand the fed dollar differential?  texas wouldn't be able to cover the costs o' fed programs as you is a dependent state. you can't afford welfare or a multitude o' other programs.

 

oh, and children is far-and-away the largest age group receiving welfare benefits, and they receive the mostest individual benefits.  no doubt once wod cures cancer and patents riding dinosaurs, he will tackle the problem o' reducing welfare recipients w/o punishing the children who is already suffering the most. 

 

HA! Good Fun!

Edited August 18, 2016 by Gromnir

[Namutree]

So if Texas secedes does that mean I'd be an illegal immigrant if I hopped the border or is there a grace period where everyone who wants to can move?

 

If the former is there anyone who has a couch I can sleep on?

I do, but no Ryan Reynalds related media.

[Volourn]

"I'm aware, but I still find the constant "WE'RE GONNA SECEDE" thing pathetic, because often times people are referencing a history so old it pre-dates any of their own living relatives."

 

WOW. You just dissed every single person - black or white - whining about slavery. Or anyone whining about how this is 'native land'. LMAO Espicially since the natives really aren't even more 'native' than whitey mcwhitey is since they are migrants too.

 

 

"She's not stupid remember, just corrupt. "

 

According to her team she is because all the email nonsense was just a 'big woopsie'.

Edited August 18, 2016 by Volourn

[Calax]

"She's not stupid remember, just corrupt. "

 

According to her team she is because all the email nonsense was just a 'big woopsie'.

From the FBI

 

http://democrats.oversight.house.gov/sites/democrats.oversight.house.gov/files/documents/Herring%20to%20JEC%20%208.16.2016.pdf

 

As to secession, Texas isn't "the most likely" to survive. California is more likely given that it's economy is so much larger than Texas.

[Wrath of Dagon]

 

SNAP rates aren't solely due to illegals of course (and that's not what I said, I said Federal policies in general)

yes, you were extreme vague about policies in general, which is why we addressed your only concrete claims and concerns. and yeah, we suspect that less people would receive welfare if texas seceded.  again, did you not understand the fed dollar differential?  texas wouldn't be able to cover the costs o' fed programs as you is a dependent state. you can't afford welfare or a multitude o' other programs.

 

oh, and children is far-and-away the largest age group receiving welfare benefits, and they receive the mostest individual benefits.  no doubt once wod cures cancer and patents riding dinosaurs, he will tackle the problem o' reducing welfare recipients w/o punishing the children who is already suffering the most. 

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

We wouldn't run welfare programs the way the feds run them. It would be very difficult to get welfare in independent Texas. Anyway, "how will we ever fund welfare" isn't a burning question on anyone's mind.

[Volourn]

"California is more likely given that it's economy is so much larger than Texas."

 

Riiighhhhhhhhhhhhhttt.... The state that seems to have an issue with not having enough drinking water for their citizens they need to ban its use.

 

BRILLIANT.

[Gromnir]

 

yes, you were extreme vague about policies in general, which is why we addressed your only concrete claims and concerns. and yeah, we suspect that less people would receive welfare if texas seceded.  again, did you not understand the fed dollar differential?  texas wouldn't be able to cover the costs o' fed programs as you is a dependent state. you can't afford welfare or a multitude o' other programs.

 

oh, and children is far-and-away the largest age group receiving welfare benefits, and they receive the mostest individual benefits.  no doubt once wod cures cancer and patents riding dinosaurs, he will tackle the problem o' reducing welfare recipients w/o punishing the children who is already suffering the most. 

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

We wouldn't run welfare programs the way the feds run them. It would be very difficult to get welfare in independent Texas. Anyway, "how will we ever fund welfare" isn't a burning question on anyone's mind.

 

oh, well then. you wouldn't run welfare "the way the feds run them."  excellent.  is so much more specific than your previous responses.

 

and given all the folks you got taking SNAP benefits, how to run welfare should be a burning question, 'cause a multitude o' starving and homeless children becomes a burning question very fast. 

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Guard Dog]

I thought this was interesting. Reason Magazine ranked all 50 States by their overall freedom ranking. The results are based on tax burden, regulatory and government intrusion into private property, personal business (like needing a business license for your kid to sell lemonade in the front yard) etc.

 

I would like to send my deepest condolences to Gromnir, Hurlshot, Manifested, Di, and all my other brothers & sisters languishing under the heavy chains of totalitarian cruelty in California. You finished 49th again. But... take heart in this... New York is even worse. They were dead last again! And you have better weather.

 

My own home state was 6th, proving again we are the freest state in the land of the green (wait I think that's the other way around.... anyway) New Hampshire moved from 2nd to 1st over all. Maybe that "Free State" project is starting to take root. I with they'd picked somewhere warmer.

 

Anyway... here is the list: http://reason.com/blog/2016/08/15/how-free-is-your-state-all-50-states-ran

Edited August 18, 2016 by Guard Dog

[Meshugger]

I know little about New Hampshire, except for them having the best license plates:

 

[Gorgon]

 

 

You have no idea how this works at all.

 

 

 

Really. Why don't you enlighten me how the supreme court gets to set asside the constitution. What could really happen is that the state of whatever passes a law requiring more stringent background checks and psychological tests and so on, there is a lawsuit and it ends up in the supreme court. 

 

 

The supreme court gets to enterpret the constitution and you will still have your 2nd ammendment, as well as some sensible gun laws, hypotheticallly speaking. 

[redneckdevil]

I thought this was interesting. Reason Magazine ranked all 50 States by their overall freedom ranking. The results are based on tax burden, regulatory and government intrusion into private property, personal business (like needing a business license for your kid to sell lemonade in the front yard) etc.

 

I would like to send my deepest condolences to Gromnir, Hurlshot, Manifested, Di, and all my other brothers & sisters languishing under the heavy chains of totalitarian cruelty in California. You finished 49th again. But... take heart in this... New York is even worse. They were dead last again! And you have better weather.

 

My own home state was 6th, proving again we are the freest state in the land of the green (wait I think that's the other way around.... anyway) New Hampshire moved from 2nd to 1st over all. Maybe that "Free State" project is starting to take root. I with they'd picked somewhere warmer.

 

Anyway... here is the list: http://reason.com/blog/2016/08/15/how-free-is-your-state-all-50-states-ran

Mmmm my state is 19th.

[redneckdevil]

Edit-really need caffeine and nicotine in me before I post in the mornings

Edited August 18, 2016 by redneckdevil

[Hurlshort]

"California is more likely given that it's economy is so much larger than Texas."

 

Riiighhhhhhhhhhhhhttt.... The state that seems to have an issue with not having enough drinking water for their citizens they need to ban its use.

 

BRILLIANT.

 

wot?

[Elerond]

I thought this was interesting. Reason Magazine ranked all 50 States by their overall freedom ranking. The results are based on tax burden, regulatory and government intrusion into private property, personal business (like needing a business license for your kid to sell lemonade in the front yard) etc.

 

I would like to send my deepest condolences to Gromnir, Hurlshot, Manifested, Di, and all my other brothers & sisters languishing under the heavy chains of totalitarian cruelty in California. You finished 49th again. But... take heart in this... New York is even worse. They were dead last again! And you have better weather.

 

My own home state was 6th, proving again we are the freest state in the land of the green (wait I think that's the other way around.... anyway) New Hampshire moved from 2nd to 1st over all. Maybe that "Free State" project is starting to take root. I with they'd picked somewhere warmer.

 

Anyway... here is the list: http://reason.com/blog/2016/08/15/how-free-is-your-state-all-50-states-ran

 

In personal freedoms it seems that both California (#16) and New York (#29) are ranked higher than Texas (#49) and Tennessee (#42).  New Hampshire seem to also be good state for those that like personal freedoms as it is ranked #9 in those addition to be #1 in fiscal freedoms. Idaho seems to be the freest date for those who hate regulations, which seem to for fiscal sector (#8 ), but not for individuals (#45). 

Edited August 18, 2016 by Elerond

[Gorth]

"California is more likely given that it's economy is so much larger than Texas."

 

Riiighhhhhhhhhhhhhttt.... The state that seems to have an issue with not having enough drinking water for their citizens they need to ban its use.

 

BRILLIANT.

Tsk tsk tsk... we all know too much water is not good for you. It's for your own good they ban water. Joking aside, why don't they build some water pipelines from Alaska to California? I'm sure they have some ice they can melt up north and sell the water to their southern neighbours. Do they have excess water in Texas? There may be an opportunity there for making an extra buck for the poor, impoverished state

[Gorth]

here is the list: http://reason.com/blog/2016/08/15/how-free-is-your-state-all-50-states-ran

Not exactly my field, social sciences, but it looks like, as a rule of thumb, the more densely populated an area is, the more regulations are in place (regardless whether such regulations are justified or not).

[Gromnir]

I thought this was interesting. Reason Magazine ranked all 50 States by their overall freedom ranking. The results are based on tax burden, regulatory and government intrusion into private property, personal business (like needing a business license for your kid to sell lemonade in the front yard) etc.

 

I would like to send my deepest condolences to Gromnir, Hurlshot, Manifested, Di, and all my other brothers & sisters languishing under the heavy chains of totalitarian cruelty in California. You finished 49th again. But... take heart in this... New York is even worse. They were dead last again! And you have better weather.

 

My own home state was 6th, proving again we are the freest state in the land of the green (wait I think that's the other way around.... anyway) New Hampshire moved from 2nd to 1st over all. Maybe that "Free State" project is starting to take root. I with they'd picked somewhere warmer.

 

Anyway... here is the list: http://reason.com/blog/2016/08/15/how-free-is-your-state-all-50-states-ran

*shrug*

 

am thinking that the study ignores that not all freedoms is equal.  personal freedoms should be given more weight, no? looks like many o' the southern states have issues with personal freedoms.  additional, poor states is understandably gonna have less regulatory laws as they simple cannot enforce even good laws. etc.

 

regardless, its the price o' democracy. act surprised or angry that State and local Government is taking away 'freedoms' is kinda silly, no?  is the democratic process at work. enough folks agree that smoking in restaurants is bad and that "there should be a law preventing it," hopeful results in such a law being passed.  sure, is an infringement o' liberty rights, but virtual all laws is.  prevent small business owners from being unfair to employees or operating without safeguards for the public is an infringement o' liberty and freedom.  prevent folks from bringing invasive species o' plants and animals into a state is terrible burden on personal liberty *snort*, but the democratic process often arrives at the reasonable conclusion that west nile virus and dutch elm disease and japanese beetle infestations is stuff folks wanna avoid.

 

'course, the tyranny of the majority is always a threat.  all you need is +50% to take away freedoms o' the minority.  is democracy, but it is often stoopid, shortsighted and even cruel. the reason why the Bill of Rights and protections o' fundamental rights is so important is  they is a check on the inevitable excesses o' the People.

 

interesting but misleading link.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Hurlshort]

It's really not that big of a deal that they don't give me water when I sit down at a restaurant.  I just ask for it and, viola, I get a glass of water.  But as stated, different states have different obstacles.  California is always going to have water issues, the two largest population areas are built in places that have terrible access to fresh water.  The drought amplifies all that, but we've been through it many times before.

 

Thankfully California ranked pretty high on the beer freedom category.  That's my jam.  

[Longknife]

Oklahoma is #3 on that list and Oklahoma's a god damned hellhole wtf?

[Gfted1]

#44! What is this tyranny I live in?

 

Thanks, Obama.