Star Wars: Rogue One

[teknoman2]

 

I always thought of Hunger Games as a poor mans watered down version of the old japanese movie "Battle Royale". I guess making it tame and substituting the actors with "westerners" was what made it a commercial success?

 

Based on only watching the first movie, the "Hunger Game" in Hunger Games was the most underwhelming with the tacky drama and toned down violence, while the most interesting was the superfluous dress-up and presentation of the contestants.

 

Battle Royale on the other hand seemed to explore certain themes more seriously, like the mental anguish of having to kill your own friend in order to survive, how certain packs are emerging under extreme stress and a commentary on the morals in society in the background.

 

It's like comparing teenage with adult in terms of literature really.

 

if we use japanese terms for it, battle royale was a seinen, hunger games is a shoujo

[Blarghagh]

Well, yeah. Hunger Games is young adult fiction.

[NightRevan]

Questions of something being to much for children for adults to be fans of or that such are embarrassing (both being slightly odd given how gaming as adults had been viewed until fairly recently and sometimes still is given the forum, or that fairy tales were intended as much for adults as children in their origin) combined with mentions of CS Lewis put me on mind of his answer to such concerns:

 

'“Critics who treat 'adult' as a term of approval, instead of as a merely descriptive term, cannot be adult themselves. To be concerned about being grown up, to admire the grown up because it is grown up, to blush at the suspicion of being childish; these things are the marks of childhood and adolescence. And in childhood and adolescence they are, in moderation, healthy symptoms. Young things ought to want to grow. But to carry on into middle life or even into early manhood this concern about being adult is a mark of really arrested development. When I was ten, I read fairy tales in secret and would have been ashamed if I had been found doing so. Now that I am fifty I read them openly. When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up.'

 

To many adults can be to serious and self-conscious for their own good in my opinion.

 

(That said I didn't think to highly of Force Awakened, nor to excited about this, but we'll see.

[Meshugger]

Well, yeah. Hunger Games is young adult fiction.

 

At the same time, some teenage fiction/children's novels can explore deeper themes and be much better written than adult (="mature") literature.

 

What i am getting at is that Hunger Games is guilty of being both bland and targeted to teenagers, while works like "The Lion, the witch and the wardrobe" by C.S. Lewis is not bland, but still for children.

[Blarghagh]

Ugh, have you actually read the Narnia books?

[aluminiumtrioxid]

C.S. Lewis is not bland, but still for children.

 

Of course he's not bland. He's much worse: he's preachy.

[Elerond]

Ugh, have you actually read the Narnia books?

 

As books I liked Hunger Games ones more than I liked Narnia ones

 

As movies franchises are much nearer each other, but I still probably would give win for Hunger Games, except that old  The Lion, The Witch and The Wardrobe (1979) cartoon is clear winner here (although I have watched it previously in 1980s, so it maybe just nostalgia).

[Meshugger]

I forgot that there were people out there not liking Narnia. I should've used a better example.

[Zoraptor]

I read the Narnia books when you're meant to read the Narnia books and despite going to a theoretically religious school at the time the preachy went straight over my head except in the way that something like Harry Potter could be said to be preachy*. The recent movies were certainly backed strongly by christian groups, but didn't do well enough to even finish the series.

 

As an adult there's plenty 'problematic' about the Narnia books, of course, and if you want to look for it. Apart from the religion there's the two things people frequently complain about in LotR as well (though Narnia has women/ girls) with the rose tinted glasses for Ye Olde England and the human baddies being swarthy foreigners.

 

*Though I'm pretty sure I thought that Susan/ Peter and Edmund/ Lucy were all married as Kings and Queens. Which is kind of the opposite of the good christian values it was supposed to instil and probably a bit too progressive even for most progressives.

[Raithe]

[Valsuelm]

... The recent movies were certainly backed strongly by christian groups, but didn't do well enough to even finish the series.

Actually, they did quite well. The three movies made a combined ~$1.58 billion on a combined ~$560 million budget. The least profitable was the second movie and it still made over $180 million in profit.

 

The series hasn't been finished yet due to some unfortunate hang ups with copyrights and production rights, but there is supposed to be more Narnia movies. Not with the same production company though (due to those rights issues), and at this point very likely not with the same stars. Both also likely unfortunate things.

Edited April 14, 2016 by Valsuelm

[Hurlshort]

Not quite sure how you describe Hunger Games aa tame. They are pretty dang brutal when you think about what is happening in them. They lack the subtlety of something like The Giver.

[Zoraptor]

 

... The recent movies were certainly backed strongly by christian groups, but didn't do well enough to even finish the series.

Actually, they did quite well. The three movies made a combined ~$1.58 billion on a combined ~$560 million budget. The least profitable was the second movie and it still made over $180 million in profit.

 

The series hasn't been finished yet due to some unfortunate hang ups with copyrights and production rights, but there is supposed to be more Narnia movies. Not with the same production company though (due to those rights issues), and at this point very likely not with the same stars. Both also likely unfortunate things.

 

 

Odd as it may seem that's not considered profitable enough. It's 'only' 60 million profit per movie, on a blockbuster scale that's barely worth getting out of bed for when they wanted LotR numbers; ~2 times the box office on barely over half the budget.

 

Rights issues have a tendency to disappear when movies are profitable in a big scale, as happened with LotR -> The Hobbit. And in that case The Hobbit(s) were made despite Jackson suing New Line Cinema, who he made LotR with. Though some might wish they had been tied up in legal problems...

[Valsuelm]

 

 

... The recent movies were certainly backed strongly by christian groups, but didn't do well enough to even finish the series.

Actually, they did quite well. The three movies made a combined ~$1.58 billion on a combined ~$560 million budget. The least profitable was the second movie and it still made over $180 million in profit.

 

The series hasn't been finished yet due to some unfortunate hang ups with copyrights and production rights, but there is supposed to be more Narnia movies. Not with the same production company though (due to those rights issues), and at this point very likely not with the same stars. Both also likely unfortunate things.

 

 

Odd as it may seem that's not considered profitable enough. It's 'only' 60 million profit per movie, on a blockbuster scale that's barely worth getting out of bed for when they wanted LotR numbers; ~2 times the box office on barely over half the budget.

 

Rights issues have a tendency to disappear when movies are profitable in a big scale, as happened with LotR -> The Hobbit. And in that case The Hobbit(s) were made despite Jackson suing New Line Cinema, who he made LotR with. Though some might wish they had been tied up in legal problems...

 

 

You misread what I wrote. They made the better part of a billion dollars in profit overall, not $60 million per movie.

 

The wiki entry on the series has a decent overview of the issues.

Edited April 14, 2016 by Valsuelm

[Meshugger]

 

 

... The recent movies were certainly backed strongly by christian groups, but didn't do well enough to even finish the series.

Actually, they did quite well. The three movies made a combined ~$1.58 billion on a combined ~$560 million budget. The least profitable was the second movie and it still made over $180 million in profit.

 

The series hasn't been finished yet due to some unfortunate hang ups with copyrights and production rights, but there is supposed to be more Narnia movies. Not with the same production company though (due to those rights issues), and at this point very likely not with the same stars. Both also likely unfortunate things.

 

 

Odd as it may seem that's not considered profitable enough. It's 'only' 60 million profit per movie, on a blockbuster scale that's barely worth getting out of bed for when they wanted LotR numbers; ~2 times the box office on barely over half the budget.

 

Rights issues have a tendency to disappear when movies are profitable in a big scale, as happened with LotR -> The Hobbit. And in that case The Hobbit(s) were made despite Jackson suing New Line Cinema, who he made LotR with. Though some might wish they had been tied up in legal problems...

 

 

Hollywood accounting strikes again, i see. For example, episode VII made ~2 billion on the box office, but that was simply not enough as Disney had expected about 4 billion. In that way, it was a total "failure".

[Elerond]

When you look box office number it should be remembered that they are gross numbers and theaters keep about half of that money. Also movies production budgets don't include their marketing budgets.

 

So for example if Narnia films used together about 200 million dollars to market world wide then profit that those movies have brought to studios is in tens of millions dollars.

[Blarghagh]

It's pretty widely accepted industry wisdom that a theatrical feature needs to gross double the budget to break even. It's not exactly accurate but close enough.

[Zoraptor]

 

 

You misread what I wrote. They made the better part of a billion dollars in profit overall, not $60 million per movie.

 

As above, it isn't simply gross - production costs = profit. The estimate of 60 million per film is based on ~60% of the gross going to distribution and advertising. That would normally be quite conservative in terms of advertising costs but I cannot remember any of the Narnia movies having huge amounts of advertising, and it's possible some of those costs are included in the overall budget- I find it hard to believe the Narnia films cost 2x the LotR ones even though the LotR ones were shot concurrently in a low cost location and a few years earlier. The LotR films are far longer, even without all the EE extras etc.

[Leferd]

[ManifestedISO]

'All is as the Force wills it' ... I think that's what he said. Could be a good foil for what I expect is Jyn's attitude. Although, if the Force has a will, Porkins would like a word. 

[Blarghagh]

Am I the only one who thinks this doesn't feel at all like a Star Wars movie?

[Gromnir]

Am I the only one who thinks this doesn't feel at all like a Star Wars movie?

rumor is that the studio agrees with you, which is why the powers that be ordered extensive reshoots.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Amentep]

A lot of the early press was that it felt like a war film.

Perhaps its just me but if Star Wars is going to be a bigger filmic brand, they probably can't make all of their films be "Star Wars" space fantasy adventures. Like Marvel has been introducing elements of other genres (like the very 70s spy-film vibe of WINTER SOLDIER), they'll probably need to embrace other film genres into the SW universe.

[Gromnir]

money.  am complete in agreement with amentep, particularly as we wanna see different kinda star wars rather than numerous repackaged space operas. unfortunately, with the kinda budgets in play, am suspecting execs is reluctant to take risks.  execs is looking at huge investments so they natural ask 'selves 'bout what resonated with The Masses when force awakens were released. thinking is one can't afford to have a bomb which would hurt a multi-billion dollar brand.  

 

*shrug*

 

execs should adjust thinking.  new star wars is not a three-movie offering with decades removed from previous star wars films.  gonna be getting star wars every year for foreseeable future and strikes us as foolish to churn out the same sausage every single time.  is ironic, but fans will hate you if as a creator o' entertainments you meet their expectations.  give folks exact what they ask for results in complaints o' derivative, predictable and boring.  new star wars scheme won't last long if it don't have variety and surprise.  gonna need be different or fans will become bored.

 

'course, is not Gromnir's money. if were our money, and we were only thinking o' the next film, we would do same as execs. 

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Malcador]

Well at least Yen won't be wasted like Uwais and Ruhian were in TFA

Edited August 12, 2016 by Malcador