The current refugee wave in Europe

[Sarex]

Bosnian immigrant in Sweden talks about the current refugee crisis: 

-video-

 

If that isn't irony I don't know what is. LOL...

[Varana]

Iran is pretty definitively shia, though I'd assume sunni was meant there.

Err, yes, thanks. I edited the sentence for clarity, and forgot about half of it. :D

 

I do however have considerable sympathy for those who throw their hands up either at the fact that for all the money spent and lives lost over the past decade or so things only seem to have gotten worse/ not improved significantly or those who feel that the west's history of intervention has been so consistently wrong headed that they are either so incompetent that anything done is likely to blow up late or so malign that they are deliberately setting things up to blow up later.

Oh, this so much.

The Middle East is a sad, depressing and infinitely complicated story where all signs of hope seem to inevitably crumble or explode in your face sooner or later. The West's involvement has been quite on par with the rest of it all.

Edited September 19, 2015 by Varana

[213374U]

President Assad is interviewed by RT about the refugee crisis:

 

http://www.rt.com/news/315482-assad-terrorism-refugees-interview/

 

Clearly that's just good old propaganda, mate. Putin's trying to confuse you.

 

Meanwhile in the land of media ethics...

[Meshugger]

 

President Assad is interviewed by RT about the refugee crisis:

 

http://www.rt.com/news/315482-assad-terrorism-refugees-interview/

 

Clearly that's just good old propaganda, mate. Putin's trying to confuse you.

 

Meanwhile in the land of media ethics...

 

 

Of course there's propaganda involved; I just drop the info that i find interesting and I leave the thinking to yourselves.

 

I am just manufacturing context for you guys.

[Darkpriest]

Meanwhile Bulgaria sends 1000 soldiers on its border with Turkey to increase border security

[Woldan]

I still wonder where the Ukrainian Refugees are and/or why nobody wants to talk about or help them. 

 

All I hear is Syria. 

Edited September 20, 2015 by Woldan

[Fighter]

I still wonder where the Ukrainian Refugees are and/or why nobody wants to talk about or help them. 

 

All I hear is Syria. 

 

It's ok they have the white privilege.

[Raithe]

Well, one of the statistics that came up..  apparently made mention that of the refugees that turns up in the UK, apparently 4 out of 5 of them are actually from countries that are not Syria.  Apparently there's a fair mix of north/east African countries and some eastern European, and a chunk of Russians being included in the migrant waves of "refugees" that are hitting these shores.

[Rosveen]

I still wonder where the Ukrainian Refugees are and/or why nobody wants to talk about or help them.

 

All I hear is Syria.

A lot of them went to Russia or other neighboring countries. The number of asylum applications in Poland rose rapidly last year and we issued a few hundred thousand temporary work permits. My city is working on an immigrant integration program involving affordable housing. Edited September 20, 2015 by Rosveen

[pmp10]

I still wonder where the Ukrainian Refugees are and/or why nobody wants to talk about or help them.

Might as well ask why is this outrage happening only now.

Mass panics are a funny thing.

[Luj1]

Saudis aren't taking any refugees , but they are building 300 mosques in Germany, hm.

 

 

I think Europe got served a giant Trojan horse. Muslims will rule Europe in 30 years.

[Meshugger]

^I wouldn't see that happening without major civil wars breaking out.

[Rosbjerg]

We're 850 million and all of the middle east is 400.. If every single man, woman and child moved they would still be a minority. Besides their birthrates are comparable to ours now, so they can't even outproduce us if that's your worry (which it really shouldn't be).

 

In conclusion: Stop being so dramatic.

[Hurlshort]

What are the actual numbers here though?  Like what percentage of the population in Germany is going to be Muslim, how many Lutheran churches are there compared to the new number of Mosques, etc.?  

 

 

edit:  Darn Ros beat me to it.

Edited September 20, 2015 by Hurlshot

[Malcador]

Saudis aren't taking any refugees , but they are building 300 mosques in Germany, hm.

 

 

I think Europe got served a giant Trojan horse. Muslims will rule Europe in 30 years.

Might have some of them as leaders but doubt they will turn into a theocracy, at least not without the attempt leading to an ouster or a coup. Always have some zealous idiots that want to subjugate infidels, have them here (lead to a fun ass kicking in Uni once), but no big deal.

[Meshugger]

We're 850 million and all of the middle east is 400.. If every single man, woman and child moved they would still be a minority. Besides their birthrates are comparable to ours now, so they can't even outproduce us if that's your worry (which it really shouldn't be).

 

In conclusion: Stop being so dramatic.

 

Aside from flimsy border-control and mixed messages from Germany + Junker which affects all Schengen-states, I think that the politicans have utterly failed to convince their native populations in their respective countries on why they should be multi-cultural at best or why they should slowly replace the native population with future workers at worst has caused this situation.

 

The rise of anti-immigrant and similar far-right parties did not happen without a reason.

[Elerond]

 

The rise of anti-immigrant and similar far-right parties did not happen without a reason.

 

 

It happened for similar reasons as it has always has, because people have fears (justifiable or unjustified don't matter) and some politician have seen their opportunity to get power in exploiting those fears by promising to solve them.

 

But as we see currently in Finland such promises are much easier to give than keep when it comes to facing realities of world. I am currently quite curios to see if True Finns are capable to keep their support in next elections (of course current crises are well timed for them as they are beginning of current parliament election cycle), but four years is short time when it comes to crises that currently face us.

[Drowsy Emperor]

We're 850 million and all of the middle east is 400.. If every single man, woman and child moved they would still be a minority. Besides their birthrates are comparable to ours now, so they can't even outproduce us if that's your worry (which it really shouldn't be).

 

In conclusion: Stop being so dramatic.

 

Comparable how? Or are you counting your native population birth rate as a collective or your genuine native population. Because last time I looked, the only reason most European countries have a positive birth:death ratio, is because the immigrants have several children and make the overall stats look better.

 

And where did you get 850 million, EU has about 500. 

[Drowsy Emperor]

What are the actual numbers here though?  Like what percentage of the population in Germany is going to be Muslim, how many Lutheran churches are there compared to the new number of Mosques, etc.?  

 

 

edit:  Darn Ros beat me to it.

 

The countries that have the largest population I believe, as a percentage of total pop, are Sweden (5%) and France, (5-10%).  In the case of France this is a huge number, estimating from 5-7 million, depending on who you read. A minority stats wise, but potentially a huge powder keg.

 

Things have become so bad that France's Jewish population is packing and leaving due to constant harassment and violence by the muslims (the standard excuse being the Israel-Palestine issue), and jewish schools and synagogues are, from what I read, now constantly guarded by the french army/police. While this is one minority terrorizing another minority, that same violence could just as easily be aimed anywhere else.

 

The muslim issue, is not yet a true problem, but will peak towards the middle of the century at the current birth rates + immigration. What is a problem right now, is the creeping influence they're exerting on the political system. Politicians being scum with no principles, means that an organized minority (that can guarantee votes) can exert much more leverage than numbers suggest, particularly when you factor in the politically disinterested native population. That sort of influence is already apparent in the way western european media are hesitant to speak ill of anything relating to Islam unless they absolutely have to (aka a bomb explodes in London or Paris).

 

The USA does not really have a problem, statistically speaking. 

Edited September 20, 2015 by Drowsy Emperor

[Hurlshort]

Well I do believe that Islam as a whole needs to undergo a reformation.  The current divisions, both political and cultural, are simply unsustainable.  In a lot of ways, this whole refugee crisis is a very clear sign that the current incarnation of Islam is coming apart at the seams.  

 

It's not like we don't have a historical roadmap to look at for this.  The parallels to Christianity are pretty clear.

[HoonDing]

I'm glad I'll be probably dead when the Allahu Akbars take over.

[Rosbjerg]

 

We're 850 million and all of the middle east is 400.. If every single man, woman and child moved they would still be a minority. Besides their birthrates are comparable to ours now, so they can't even outproduce us if that's your worry (which it really shouldn't be).

 

In conclusion: Stop being so dramatic.

 

Comparable how? Or are you counting your native population birth rate as a collective or your genuine native population. Because last time I looked, the only reason most European countries have a positive birth:death ratio, is because the immigrants have several children and make the overall stats look better.

 

And where did you get 850 million, EU has about 500. 

 

 

I get my numbers from the World Bank and UN websites, as opposed to the time honored tradition of pulling the numbers out of your ass.

 

The UN sets a cautious estimate of the population of EU at 738 million. Source. While other projections are almost a billion when Russia, Turkey and other countries some times affiliated with Europe are counted in, so I went with a nice middle ground.

Do you also need help with finding sources on population growth?

[Meshugger]

 

 

The rise of anti-immigrant and similar far-right parties did not happen without a reason.

 

 

It happened for similar reasons as it has always has, because people have fears (justifiable or unjustified don't matter) and some politician have seen their opportunity to get power in exploiting those fears by promising to solve them.

 

But as we see currently in Finland such promises are much easier to give than keep when it comes to facing realities of world. I am currently quite curios to see if True Finns are capable to keep their support in next elections (of course current crises are well timed for them as they are beginning of current parliament election cycle), but four years is short time when it comes to crises that currently face us.

 

 

True Finns are just the same manifestiation of the problem as SD in Sweden, Front National in France and so on, which goes back to your original point about politicians prolificating from fears: Are they actually all cynical oppurtunists? That's quite the claim to make. With the same logic, occupy Wall Street was about exploiting the rage of indebted people.

 

What this situation demands is a strong leadership that clearly states what the end goal is on how solve this crisis, which at the same time will not result in complete demographic change in Europe or the creation of even larger ghettoes or states-within-the-states. If it doesn't, well i can imagine the following:

 

A man, a veteran of combat, returns home from his last military campaign and goes out on the street and doesn't like what he sees; he doesn't recognize the neighbourhood, the people or anything. Only misery and people who doesn't look and doesn't speak the language. He once had dreams about the arts and even wanted to paint, but they are long gone now when the reality has sunked in.

 

Political turmoil is in the news with reported shootings and violence, which leads him fed up as it feels like nothing matters anymore.

So he decides to have a long rant about it at the local pub.

People start to listen.

[Elerond]

 

 

 

The rise of anti-immigrant and similar far-right parties did not happen without a reason.

 

 

It happened for similar reasons as it has always has, because people have fears (justifiable or unjustified don't matter) and some politician have seen their opportunity to get power in exploiting those fears by promising to solve them.

 

But as we see currently in Finland such promises are much easier to give than keep when it comes to facing realities of world. I am currently quite curios to see if True Finns are capable to keep their support in next elections (of course current crises are well timed for them as they are beginning of current parliament election cycle), but four years is short time when it comes to crises that currently face us.

 

 

True Finns are just the same manifestiation of the problem as SD in Sweden, Front National in France and so on, which goes back to your original point about politicians prolificating from fears: Are they actually all cynical oppurtunists? That's quite the claim to make. With the same logic, occupy Wall Street was about exploiting the rage of indebted people.

 

 

When their main agendas surround those fears and how they will prevent those fears never becoming true or at least do their best to fight against them then they are in my opinion opportunist especially when we speak about parties that weren't previously in power. Of course there are always more nuances than any simple explanation can give, but if you look commonalities in those right wing parties you, see that how they speak how immigrants take jobs from original population and how they do more crimes (these are points that play with people's fears [which of course can be justified, but anyway they are aimed towards people's fears]), also with EU they speak how EU dictates things and forces to do things that people don't want (this also plays on people's fears [and again they can be justified, but anyways they are aimed towards something that people fear]), also with Greece they points are how Greece will take all our money (again playing with people's fears [justifiable or not] ). So to me all their main agendas use people's fears to get them motivated to vote them. Opportunist part comes from my opinion that all (at least most) politicians are opportunists that just look ways to motivate people to vote them (For example for governing parties usually motivate people by appeal their habit to dislike any big changes).

 

Occupy Wall Street used people's anger (justified or not, but anger anyways) towards things and it would not had existed without that anger. Of course there may have been some other things that drive them as I did read quite little about it (mostly only about the police brutality cases that got quite lot press time).

[BruceVC]

 

 

We're 850 million and all of the middle east is 400.. If every single man, woman and child moved they would still be a minority. Besides their birthrates are comparable to ours now, so they can't even outproduce us if that's your worry (which it really shouldn't be).

 

In conclusion: Stop being so dramatic.

 

Comparable how? Or are you counting your native population birth rate as a collective or your genuine native population. Because last time I looked, the only reason most European countries have a positive birth:death ratio, is because the immigrants have several children and make the overall stats look better.

 

And where did you get 850 million, EU has about 500. 

 

 

I get my numbers from the World Bank and UN websites, as opposed to the time honored tradition of pulling the numbers out of your ass.

 

The UN sets a cautious estimate of the population of EU at 738 million. Source. While other projections are almost a billion when Russia, Turkey and other countries some times affiliated with Europe are counted in, so I went with a nice middle ground.

Do you also need help with finding sources on population growth?

 

You need to realize Ros that people like Drowsy don't really need verifiable sources of information when they make comments.... RT is normally good enough to spread misinformation and perpetuate conspiracy theories 

 

Ask 2133.....according to him every news source is about propaganda 

Edited September 21, 2015 by BruceVC