Fallout 4 is coming!

[Chilloutman]

I dont know guys, I know that RPG is not about stats and skills. On other hand it kind of is part of RPGs for me. But what is point of skills in FPS shooter? Even FPS shooter can be RPG - you can play your role and can have some dialog branching, but for me its no longer RPG. Honestly I dont have any problem with Bethesda games, I loved Morrowing, I enjoyed Oblivion with OOO mod. I spend some time in Skyrim. I would be perfectly ok if they develop their own post-apo setting aka Rage. But why they have to take classic iso RPG, strip it of all its magic (maybe except setting) and still call it same name?

 

Hate is commonly used word on internet, It doesnt have mean that I want to kill anyone. Same as with 'I will rape you' never have sexual context in online gaming (if you are not real pervert ofc)

 

Strange how offten people in multiplayer say I will kill you and everyone is perfectly ok with it. but hate? oooo noo soo baad

[Ganrich]

@Chilloutman - on the topic of "why not create their own IP like Rage?" Brand recognition. They didn't have to do much to get press. People new what to expect from the setting, as well. I remember Todd Howard saying they wanted Fallout because it had "style" like no other game... Then FO3 came out and, at least IMHO, most of that style was sucked out to make TES with guns.

 

Also, the only new IP from Bethesda (in many years) I can think of is Brink. I guess Rage as well, technically. Either way, Bethesda isn't a publisher I ever look to for a new IP. They like to slowly churn out the same IPs over and over.

[Fardragon]

AS I've said elsewhere, taking the term "role playing" too literally is misleading. The majority of computer games involve "playing a role". What I look for in a game described as a "CRPG" is something that recreates the experience of PnP gaming. Now, for me, PnP gaming doesn't always involve much actual role playing. I often play a character who is very similar to myself in terms of personality and morality. My character differs from me only in terms of the attributes, skills and abilities listed on the character sheet. So, those skills and stats are vitally important, whereas anything that requires real life reflexes I prefer to avoid.

 

The other feature of the PnP experience that Bethesda games fail to recreate is the social aspect. Even when you can recruit followers, the feel like drones that wander aimlessly behind you, not companions with whom you are sharing an adventure.

 

I've played pretty much every Bethesda game since Arena, and never completed any of them. For me, they are lonely experiences, with worlds populated by cardboard cut-outs rather than believable characters.

Edited June 19, 2015 by Fardragon

[Chilloutman]

@Chilloutman - on the topic of "why not create their own IP like Rage?" Brand recognition. They didn't have to do much to get press. People new what to expect from the setting, as well. I remember Todd Howard saying they wanted Fallout because it had "style" like no other game... Then FO3 came out and, at least IMHO, most of that style was sucked out to make TES with guns.

 

Hmm maybe I am too subjective on that matter, I think FO3 waqs most prayed by people who never played original fallout, but maybe its not true

 

I like this:

 

Todd Howard saying they wanted Fallout because it had "style" like no other game...

[Ganrich]

 

@Chilloutman - on the topic of "why not create their own IP like Rage?" Brand recognition. They didn't have to do much to get press. People new what to expect from the setting, as well. I remember Todd Howard saying they wanted Fallout because it had "style" like no other game... Then FO3 came out and, at least IMHO, most of that style was sucked out to make TES with guns.

 

 

Hmm maybe I am too subjective on that matter, I think FO3 waqs most prayed by people who never played original fallout, but maybe its not true

 

I like this:

 

Todd Howard saying they wanted Fallout because it had "style" like no other game...

FO3 was definitely played by more people that never played the first 2, but I don't have to have played Earthworm Jim to be aware of it. If I, as a gamer, see Earthworm Jim's new flashy shooter RPG from the developer of that other big game... it can be appealing. How many people walked past FO2 big boxes at their local store and thought, "that helmet on that box looks cool," then flipped the box over and didn't think the isometric game appealed to them. Then many years later see a shooter named after that game with the cool box, and said "heck yeah I can get behind that!"

 

Also, in our age of the Internet, a few fanboys of the FO series probably took to forums like these and advertised for bethesda because they loved FO 1 and 2. The press did the same. If valve came out tomorrow and said "Half-Life 3" the Internet would go bananas, and it would advertise itself. If Blizzard said, "Hey, Arcanum sequel in the works." Then this forum and many others would spread the news. These forums house players that haven't played FO 1 or 2 I am sure (shame, though it is), same with HL3, or Arcanum. And Reddit likes to blow up when cult classics get some newfound love, as well. It definitely helps with these cult sequels and spiritual successors on kickstarter.

[Chilloutman]

I would not count F3 as sequel or spiritual successor by any stretch of my imagination.

[Ganrich]

I would not count F3 as sequel or spiritual successor by any stretch of my imagination.

Neither would I. However, when it was first announced people who were fans of the originals had hope. However misplaced it may have been, that hope probably got some advertising. Brand recognition is powerful.

 

Another example: Oerwinde dropped a link saying that info had leaked of a Transformers game with cel shaded graphics to give the game a Gen 1 cartoon look. Transformers: Devastation. I, being a huge fan of Gen1 TFs, sent the link to about 5 friends who are also fans. The game could be crap, but all it took was the brand recognition to make me act irrational about it.

[Chilloutman]

 

I would not count F3 as sequel or spiritual successor by any stretch of my imagination.

Neither would I. However, when it was first announced people who were fans of the originals had hope. However misplaced it may have been, that hope probably got some advertising. Brand recognition is powerful.

 

Another example: Oerwinde dropped a link saying that info had leaked of a Transformers game with cel shaded graphics to give the game a Gen 1 cartoon look. Transformers: Devastation. I, being a huge fan of Gen1 TFs, sent the link to about 5 friends who are also fans. The game could be crap, but all it took was the brand recognition to make me act irrational about it.

 

 

I was one of that fans, after first presentation of it I lost all interest in that game. Never bought it

[Quillon]

So I was browsing the net if people talking about a possible Obsidian spin-off to FO4. Some guy in rpgcodex said...

 

It would be dumb as **** for them to be upset about that. Obsidian is solid when it comes to making slum-dunks and Bethesda would be dumb to not hire them again considering the cash they got from New Vegas and the DLCs. MCA doesn't even work there any more. Which makes me wonder if that is why MCA left Obsidian. Zenimax might've wanted them to get rid of him if they wanted to get to work on Fallout 4. Would explain the silence, the backlash Obsidian would get for doing that would be unprecedented.

 ...which I don't believe what happened at all but still made me excited for another fallout from Obsidian. Personally if there won't be another spin-off it'd be cos of Bethesda's ego and pride after all that - which game is better talk - over the years all over the interwebz. Or they might just be thinking Obsidian's not up to par after all the layoffs. 

Edited June 19, 2015 by Quillon

[Lexx]

People should email Bethesda about ab Obsidian Spinoff. No stupid internet petition. Bomb their emails and show them directly that such a game is wanted.

[Azdeus]

 ...which I don't believe what happened at all but still made me excited for another fallout from Obsidian. Personally if there won't be another spin-off it'd be cos of Bethesda's ego and pride after all that - which game is better talk - over the years all over the interwebz. Or they might just be thinking Obsidian's not up to par after all the layoffs. 

 

I'm willing to admit I'm not one to keep up well with game news lately, but what does MCA have to do with Zenimax that would make someone come to that conclusion?

[Quillon]

 

 ...which I don't believe what happened at all but still made me excited for another fallout from Obsidian. Personally if there won't be another spin-off it'd be cos of Bethesda's ego and pride after all that - which game is better talk - over the years all over the interwebz. Or they might just be thinking Obsidian's not up to par after all the layoffs. 

 

I'm willing to admit I'm not one to keep up well with game news lately, but what does MCA have to do with Zenimax that would make someone come to that conclusion?

 

Apparently he was the one who first leaked the info about metacritic bonus thingy on twitter maybe not intentionally tho :/

[Azdeus]

Apparently he was the one who first leaked the info about metacritic bonus thingy on twitter maybe not intentionally tho :/

 

 

If that's the case, I respect MCA even more.

[WDeranged]

Apparently the map is twice as big as Skyrim.  It's about time really, Skyrim suffered slightly for the condensed scale as it only took you five minutes to walk between supposedly remote and legendary 'cities'. 

[Chilloutman]

Yeah, scale on Skyrim was really weird, even Morrowind seems much bigger to me

[WDeranged]

Yeah, scale on Skyrim was really weird, even Morrowind seems much bigger to me

 

The perma-fog and limited fast travel helped with that but I have the same feeling.  

[HoonDing]

Apparently the map is twice as big as Skyrim.  It's about time really, Skyrim suffered slightly for the condensed scale as it only took you five minutes to walk between supposedly remote and legendary 'cities'. 

I flew across Vvardenfell in five seconds.

[WDeranged]

 

Apparently the map is twice as big as Skyrim.  It's about time really, Skyrim suffered slightly for the condensed scale as it only took you five minutes to walk between supposedly remote and legendary 'cities'. 

I flew across Vvardenfell in five seconds.

 

 

I never managed to build a character with game breaking levels of magic but I treasured those Icarian Flight scrolls.  So much that I hardly ever used them, I'd always have a couple left by end game.  I remember getting in serious trouble on the slopes of Dagoth Ur and blasting out of there like a rocket 

[Shadow_Arms]

in fact, i felt that oblivion was bigger than skyrim

 

and it was

 

Skyrim Tamriel Worldspace: 3808 x 3008 [ 119 x 94 TES4 size cells ] = 6.9km x 5.4km = 37.6 sq km = 14.5 sq miles
Oblivion Cyrodiil Worldspace: 4288 x 4128 [ 134 x 129 TES4 size cells ] = 7.7km x 7.4km = 57 sq km = 22 sq miles
Morrowind Vvardenfell World: 2688 x 2816 [ 84 x 88 TES4 size cells ] = 4.8km x 5km = 24 sq km = 9.3 sq miles
Fallout3 Wasteland Worldspace: 6304x6400 [ 197 x 200 TES4 size cells ] = 11.3km x 11.5km = 130 sq km = 50 sq miles
Fallout3 New Vegas WastelandNV: 4096x4128 [ 128 x 129 TES4 size cells ] = 7.3km x 7.4km = 54 sq km = 21 sq miles

 

now just 4 the lulz

 

 

 

 

 

 

also its funny that oblivion and NV almost had the same map size, but NV was limited that small space due to time constrains, and bethesda fearing internal competition because of skyrim's announcement and release next year

 

 

NV 2009/2010 vs Skyrim 2011

Edited June 19, 2015 by Shadow_Arms

[Lexx]

I find it not even worthy to discuss. Really, obviously it is an abstraction- we are still playing a game, after all.

 

 

In the end I find it more important how the worldmap in the game is presented. Stuff I like to repeat all the time: What makes Skyrim feel small to me is quests sending me from one edge of the world to the other, and people who know each other despite living extremely far away.

Edited June 19, 2015 by Lexx

[Shadow_Arms]

I find it not even worthy to discuss. Really, obviously it is an abstraction- we are still playing a game, after all.

 

 

In the end I find it more important how the worldmap in the game is presented. Stuff I like to repeat all the time: What makes Skyrim feel small to me is quests sending me from one edge of the world to the other, and people who know each other despite living extremely far away.

atleast we have something in common, thus

 

-Scrapped quests(not only those on the CK files, you could kill braith as a quest, put a end on the Thieves Guild)

-Lots of cut stuff(Hammerfell road, Throwing weapons, Polearms and spears, dragonstar, arena settlements)

-Companion quests(Lydia was supposed to be Brogruff's Niece, also the Regicide committed by his sons during Mephala's quest)

-Lack of ****ing decency to admit that they removed spears, Oblivion casting and polearms because of PS3 and X360 limitations and Skyrim CK being a horrible piece of slag(even if Fallout 3 and New vegas used the early alpha of CK engine with working spears)

-Rushed writing for a few things(visit teslore someday for that)

-Meridia ball of light thing

-Nothing about Jyggalag

-Bland Civil war, which was restored thanks to Appolidown

-No furor about You Killing the Emperor, or even Boethia's Goldbrand which he claimed to win the Great War

-BROKEN FACIAL ANIMATIONS

 

atleast bethesda admited at E3 that they Dun Goofed with skyrim and it didn't reached their expectations(aka people saying that it was inferior to morrowind and Oblivion) in both lore and gameplay

 

but really, the only few thing that it saves in that game are

 

-Crafting

-Civil War

-Dark Brotherhood quest

-LDB = Talos Reborn theories

-A Few Dawnguard bits

-Dragonborn and herma mora

 

The rest is so forgettable, that its like fallout 2 MQ and the hubologists, you could simply say **** Arroyo, the Enclave's Cobra Commander plot and the hubologists

 

or Ignorable like fallout 3 sidequests and MQ, just simply do only The Pitt, Stealing Independence with Sydney and Point Lookout and screw the Capital wasteland, who here knows that Agatha exists?

 

i have faith in fallout 4, but then you remember how ****ed up and rushed skyrim it is 'til nowadays, and bethesda complete negligence to keep atleast 2 or 3 people to fix it

 

For now

 

here's this music to prove everyone's point

 

Edited June 19, 2015 by Shadow_Arms

[Zoraptor]

Apparently he was the one who first leaked the info about metacritic bonus thingy on twitter maybe not intentionally tho :/

Pretty sure that Brain Fargo was making complaints about metacritic bonuses and similar practices beforehand, with Avellone just confirming they applied to Obsidian/ FONV. Most of the stuff that would potentially annoy Beth/ Zenimax actually came from Fargo as part of his pitch for WL2, iirc, as he used Obsidian as an example to whip up some anti publisher frenzy.

 

In any case, while there are plenty of examples of very sharp practice coming from Beth/ Zenimax (including the metacritic stuff but also accusations of constructively bankrupting/ trying to bankrupt developers so they could buy them up cheap and save on costs; per Arkane where it worked and Human Head where it didn't) the accusation that they got MCA fired seems extremely unlikely- not least because Obsidian doesn't seem to have enough spare staff to be doing a nuFallout scale project if more than half are on Armoured Warface [sic, but I'm not changing that typo].

[Quillon]

For the accusation I already said

 

...which I don't believe what happened at all but still made me excited for another fallout from Obsidian.

 

For the staff, it shouldn't be hard to hire/hire back people when you get funded by the publisher? The opposite happens when you run out of money :/

[Gfted1]

I Can't Stop Playing Fallout Shelter.

[cirdanx]

Yeah, scale on Skyrim was really weird, even Morrowind seems much bigger to me

 

Skyrim was that successful pinnacle of open world games, (like BG2 was for the golden age of cRPG) now everyone asks the devs about it and thus it became a marketing strategy.."we are bigger and/or better than skyrim don´t worry". Despite most people never even exploring all of Skyrim. Bigger = better and idiots fall for it (even if it´s not true)

 

Anyway, i enjoyed the other fallout games, but i was never a big fan. This looks very dated to me in terms of graphics and doesn´t bring much new to the table, so to speak...sooo...not excited.