Two Major Combat Issues that Need to be Addressed

[constantine]

I really hope there are resources and the will from the developer's side to address these two, major issues present in PoE's combat:

 

 

-Enemy AI

We've been informed during development that there was not enough time to properly develop enemy AI, as a result enemies take simple decisions and act in a similar fashion despite their type. Combat will be a lot more colourful and challenging if this would be to be taken care of.

 

 

-Option to Escape Combat

A rare few parties may manage it, but certainly not the majority of them and since PoE is a game where you may end up fighting enemies tougher than you, the option to escape should be there. It could be done via an 'escape button' (not unlike scouting button) that enables the party to run at an increased mv rate, albeit applying a penalty on defenses, so as to outrun enemies and get out of the aggro zone. It will be risky, having to suffer from disengagement and all, but the option should be there.

 

 

 

Thoughts ?

[InfiniteEternity]

Nah not really. Played too much Divinity: OS have you?

[constantine]

Nah not really. Played too much Divinity: OS have you?

 

What do you mean ?

[Althernai]

Better AI would certainly be good, but this is much easier said than done. Hopefully in the expansion or at least in PoE 2.

 

Escape is already possible now and generally not that hard -- just throw some summons to the wolves and run.

[brionkj]

I just like to add a third item:

 

More setpiece battles. Where we the players have to out-think the opponents who hold advantage in some way (higher ground, race against the clock, etc...)

[Ink Blot]

I just like to add a third item:

 

More setpiece battles. Where we the players have to out-think the opponents who hold advantage in some way (higher ground, race against the clock, etc...)

Anything but that.

[Archaven]

I see alot of nerfs in upcoming patch. I think nerfs are not the correct way in balancing a battle. A smart AI is the resolution for the poor combat difficulty.

[constantine]

The nerfs come to balance the classes, more so than combat.

[kaiki]

Better enemy AI is always a good thing. That's almost like asking "Would you like better art?"

 

As for an escape option, nah I'm happy without something like D:OS. Seemed out of place.

[Eos]

I see alot of nerfs in upcoming patch. I think nerfs are not the correct way in balancing a battle. A smart AI is the resolution for the poor combat difficulty.

 

These kind of posts always dazzle me. I've got my butt handed to me on PotD on several different occasions. Be it in a ambush fight at Caed Nua where a group of virthaks (verthaks? the scarecrow-like dudes from the Endless Dungeon) start the fight by paralyzing my whole group before dominating two to three of my characters, or against some of the bounty groups which have so many dudes that they swarm my two tanks and then go straight for my back line throwing around disables and nukes as if they were confetti. Or the fight at the top level of the lighthouse where you just cannot tank the mobs properly and have to rely on buffs/heals/disables to let your squishies survive the onslaught.

 

Maybe it's just me, but on PotD (and even on Hard) the game offers plenty of challenging encounters where I had to think about my formation, setup and some buffs/debuffs/disables to keep the enemies from tearing through my softer party members.

 

Or maybe I just don't remember every fight that I eventually managed to win after five reloads as 'too easy'

[View619]

 

I see alot of nerfs in upcoming patch. I think nerfs are not the correct way in balancing a battle. A smart AI is the resolution for the poor combat difficulty.

 

These kind of posts always dazzle me. I've got my butt handed to me on PotD on several different occasions. Be it in a ambush fight at Caed Nua where a group of virthaks (verthaks? the scarecrow-like dudes from the Endless Dungeon) start the fight by paralyzing my whole group before dominating two to three of my characters, or against some of the bounty groups which have so many dudes that they swarm my two tanks and then go straight for my back line throwing around disables and nukes as if they were confetti. Or the fight at the top level of the lighthouse where you just cannot tank the mobs properly and have to rely on buffs/heals/disables to let your squishies survive the onslaught.

 

Maybe it's just me, but on PotD (and even on Hard) the game offers plenty of challenging encounters where I had to think about my formation, setup and some buffs/debuffs/disables to keep the enemies from tearing through my softer party members.

 

Or maybe I just don't remember every fight that I eventually managed to win after five reloads as 'too easy'

 

 

Many players don't need to reload in order to beat "difficult" fights. The current game is very easy on Hard, almost challenging on POTD. 

[Khalid the bear]

On PotD i had very few hard fights. not as many were autoatack roflstomp as on hard diff, but not many of them were realy difficult
i had a min-maxed, but not optimal party (paladin tank+eder, soft (low con, not very good defences) barbarian and monk in armor, lightly armored rogue and cypher, no healer)

[Blovski]

I really hope there are resources and the will from the developer's side to address these two, major issues present in PoE's combat:

 

 

-Enemy AI

We've been informed during development that there was not enough time to properly develop enemy AI, as a result enemies take simple decisions and act in a similar fashion despite their type. Combat will be a lot more colourful and challenging if this would be to be taken care of.

 

 

-Option to Escape Combat

A rare few parties may manage it, but certainly not the majority of them and since PoE is a game where you may end up fighting enemies tougher than you, the option to escape should be there. It could be done via an 'escape button' (not unlike scouting button) that enables the party to run at an increased mv rate, albeit applying a penalty on defenses, so as to outrun enemies and get out of the aggro zone. It will be risky, having to suffer from disengagement and all, but the option should be there.

 

 

 

Thoughts ?

Yes, decent AI would be fantastic.

 

Escaping combat is honestly more a matter of when the AI (and which of the enemies) decides to stop chasing you relative to where your knocked characters with no health left that will get killed if they get back up at an unfortunate moment are. Something between heat-seeking opponents and the current scatter-brained, slightly inconsistent AI would be nice.

[Hebruixe]

The escape mechanic in D:OS was badly designed -- it was basically a cheat button. I don't think anyone wants that mistake repeated in PoE.

 

However.

 

PoE absolutely needs escape mechanics. It should be part of the gameplay...something that requires tact or expensive resources.

 

For example, in Fallout 3 there were extremely rare items called Stealthboys that could instantly turn you invisible, evading any fight. It was an emergency item. There was a finite supply so you didn't want to waste them...smart players saved them for worst case scenarios.

 

Another example...in Baldur's Gate, you could sacrifice a tier 4 mage spell slot for mass invisibility. Having that emergency spell could really save your @ss from a bad situation. It wasn't free. It wasn't a cheat button. It was a gameplay option.

[Hebruixe]

[duplicate post]

Edited May 4, 2015 by Hebruixe

[Hebruixe]

[another accidental duplicate]

Edited May 4, 2015 by Hebruixe

[Hebruixe]

 

I see alot of nerfs in upcoming patch. I think nerfs are not the correct way in balancing a battle. A smart AI is the resolution for the poor combat difficulty.

 

These kind of posts always dazzle me. I've got my butt handed to me on PotD on several different occasions. Be it in a ambush fight at Caed Nua where a group of virthaks (verthaks? the scarecrow-like dudes from the Endless Dungeon) start the fight by paralyzing my whole group before dominating two to three of my characters, or against some of the bounty groups which have so many dudes that they swarm my two tanks and then go straight for my back line throwing around disables and nukes as if they were confetti. Or the fight at the top level of the lighthouse where you just cannot tank the mobs properly and have to rely on buffs/heals/disables to let your squishies survive the onslaught.

 

Maybe it's just me, but on PotD (and even on Hard) the game offers plenty of challenging encounters where I had to think about my formation, setup and some buffs/debuffs/disables to keep the enemies from tearing through my softer party members.

 

Or maybe I just don't remember every fight that I eventually managed to win after five reloads as 'too easy'

 

 

I agree completely. I've rerolled countless times in PotD mode and it's always an engaging combat experience, requiring forethought and finesse. Enemy AI may not be realistic (especially for sentient opponents), but the battles are always a reasonable challenge. 

 

The people who show up to complain about difficulty are just egomaniacs advertising their epeens. They really don't deserve your attention.

[Khalid the bear]

not completly true. while PotD is not quite easy, its far from Heart of Fury, or any other 'insane' difficulty

[LadyCrimson]

I always feel like "decent/good AI" is an oxymoron.

 

...not that I have anything against developers trying.

[scrotiemcb]

I always feel like "decent/good AI" is an oxymoron.

 

...not that I have anything against developers trying.

I'm inclined to agree. In fact, I think quite a bit of what makes the enemies so predictable is that they always follow algorithm. Losing some AI and replacing it with some randomly rolled behavior would probably lead to more interesting moments.

[View619]

 

 

I see alot of nerfs in upcoming patch. I think nerfs are not the correct way in balancing a battle. A smart AI is the resolution for the poor combat difficulty.

 

These kind of posts always dazzle me. I've got my butt handed to me on PotD on several different occasions. Be it in a ambush fight at Caed Nua where a group of virthaks (verthaks? the scarecrow-like dudes from the Endless Dungeon) start the fight by paralyzing my whole group before dominating two to three of my characters, or against some of the bounty groups which have so many dudes that they swarm my two tanks and then go straight for my back line throwing around disables and nukes as if they were confetti. Or the fight at the top level of the lighthouse where you just cannot tank the mobs properly and have to rely on buffs/heals/disables to let your squishies survive the onslaught.

 

Maybe it's just me, but on PotD (and even on Hard) the game offers plenty of challenging encounters where I had to think about my formation, setup and some buffs/debuffs/disables to keep the enemies from tearing through my softer party members.

 

Or maybe I just don't remember every fight that I eventually managed to win after five reloads as 'too easy'

 

 

I agree completely. I've rerolled countless times in PotD mode and it's always an engaging combat experience, requiring forethought and finesse. Enemy AI may not be realistic (especially for sentient opponents), but the battles are always a reasonable challenge. 

 

The people who show up to complain about difficulty are just egomaniacs advertising their epeens. They really don't deserve your attention.

 

 

Or they are people with valid complaints, since most encounters are trivialized with one tactic due to AI that is unable to handle basic tactical decisions on the player side. Besides Phantoms and bum-rushing into battles POTD isn't much harder than Hard.

 

This has been a constant complaint from beta days apparently, epeen has nothing to do with poor encounter variety/enemy defenses/poor AI. If anything, POTD is closer to Core difficulty in older games imo. I guess Hard is closer to Normal.

Edited May 4, 2015 by View619

[luzarius]

I wouldn't mind being able to escape, but like he said there has to be harsh penalties for doing so.  HARSH. 

 

Penalties

* Two real time hours of -20 accuracy due to low morale.

* If you keep escaping combat, your party members start to leave permanently.

* You gain a reputation as coward and are made fun of by NPC's.

[scrotiemcb]

I wouldn't mind being able to escape, but like he said there has to be harsh penalties for doing so. HARSH.

 

Penalties

* Two real time hours of -20 accuracy due to low morale.

* If you keep escaping combat, your party members start to leave permanently.

* You gain a reputation as coward and are made fun of by NPC's.

The first idea is horrible. It is roughly equivalent to "stop playing PoE for today, but keep the window open."

 

The second idea is very meh.

 

The third idea, however, seems genius to me. I can imagine several different reputations which one could gain based on combat choices instead of dialogue choices.

[Zwiebelchen]

 

I see alot of nerfs in upcoming patch. I think nerfs are not the correct way in balancing a battle. A smart AI is the resolution for the poor combat difficulty.

 

These kind of posts always dazzle me. I've got my butt handed to me on PotD on several different occasions. Be it in a ambush fight at Caed Nua where a group of virthaks (verthaks? the scarecrow-like dudes from the Endless Dungeon) start the fight by paralyzing my whole group before dominating two to three of my characters, or against some of the bounty groups which have so many dudes that they swarm my two tanks and then go straight for my back line throwing around disables and nukes as if they were confetti. Or the fight at the top level of the lighthouse where you just cannot tank the mobs properly and have to rely on buffs/heals/disables to let your squishies survive the onslaught.

 

Maybe it's just me, but on PotD (and even on Hard) the game offers plenty of challenging encounters where I had to think about my formation, setup and some buffs/debuffs/disables to keep the enemies from tearing through my softer party members.

 

Or maybe I just don't remember every fight that I eventually managed to win after five reloads as 'too easy'

 

 

100% agree. The bounties and some Od Nua levels are extremely tough.

I think the problem most people have with PotD is the critical path... which I agree is pretty easy in comparison.

[Alweth]

 

I wouldn't mind being able to escape, but like he said there has to be harsh penalties for doing so. HARSH.

 

Penalties

* Two real time hours of -20 accuracy due to low morale.

* If you keep escaping combat, your party members start to leave permanently.

* You gain a reputation as coward and are made fun of by NPC's.

The first idea is horrible. It is roughly equivalent to "stop playing PoE for today, but keep the window open."

 

The second idea is very meh.

 

The third idea, however, seems genius to me. I can imagine several different reputations which one could gain based on combat choices instead of dialogue choices.

 

 

There should be a murderhobo reputation for wiping out every (or almost every) enemy you meet. This would only make sense, of course, if enemies could lose morale and run away when it was clear that they'd lost.

Edited May 4, 2015 by Alweth