435 Discussion

[Sensuki]

There are now per-character auto save slots (and probably quick save slots too)

[Sensuki]

Solid Background is compatible with the IE mod

 

 

I will have a play around with this and make some suggestions based on how they work together.

 

Here's a video demonstrating the new features in IE Mod 435 v3

 

 

New Features:

 

- Selection Circle Thickness console command

- Changed how Remove Engagement works - explained in video

 

Mod links for Windows, Mac and Linux

 

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/62420848/iemod-435-v3-windows.zip

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/62420848/iemod-435-v3-linux.zip

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/62420848/iemod-435-v3-macos.zip

 

Also if you're thinking of using the mod, at Adam Brennecke's request please revert back to the default Assembly if you're doing any bug testing. Even though the mod is pretty solid and I haven't found any mod specific bugs for quite some time, it does change many minor things about the game that could be mistakenly reported as a bug. Mod components are documented here: http://rien-ici.com/iemod/

Edited February 5, 2015 by Sensuki

[Gfted1]

...or gifted's spam love for that matter...

Sup broheim. I thought for sure you loved Spam what with your frequent dishing it up.

[Luckmann]

 

 

My main criticism so far is that I want wood elf to have a beard. Why pale elf get beards but not wood elf?

 

That said the new faces for elves look better. I think some of the godlike ones need work still though.

Dunno. Maybe for the same reason why Native Americans don't really have beards but black/white etc. people do.

 

 

Native Americans don't have beards? 

 

 

Not usually, no. Native americans are racially asian in origin, and have a hard time growing full beards.

[archangel979]

Can anyone comment on new ranger?

[Bester]

 Mod components are documented here: http://rien-ici.com/iemod/

 

Yeah, but don't download from there, cause I lost access to that site and it's just old versions there now...

Edited February 5, 2015 by Bester

[Sensuki]

Can anyone comment on new ranger?

Well now you actually have to attack the enemy animal companion now, and they're not really that tough either. When your companion (or vice versa) goes down you get like -20 to Accuracy so if you're a low level character you're basically dead weight.

 

I have not played extensively with the Ranger yet but they still seem like the flat out worst class. The ability progression table has been improved though.

[Ashen Rohk]

Just finished a video on ranger, they're a lot better than they were previously but they're outshone by everything else except rogue.

[archangel979]

 

Can anyone comment on new ranger?

Well now you actually have to attack the enemy animal companion now, and they're not really that tough either. When your companion (or vice versa) goes down you get like -20 to Accuracy so if you're a low level character you're basically dead weight.

 

I have not played extensively with the Ranger yet but they still seem like the flat out worst class. The ability progression table has been improved though.

 

Still sounds better than what we had before.

 

Also that is a good idea to fix people not caring if your party members go down or not. Party should receive a -5 accuracy Morale penalty per each party member down.

[Luckmann]

 

 

Can anyone comment on new ranger?

Well now you actually have to attack the enemy animal companion now, and they're not really that tough either. When your companion (or vice versa) goes down you get like -20 to Accuracy so if you're a low level character you're basically dead weight.

 

I have not played extensively with the Ranger yet but they still seem like the flat out worst class. The ability progression table has been improved though.

 

Still sounds better than what we had before.

 

Also that is a good idea to fix people not caring if your party members go down or not. Party should receive a -5 accuracy Morale penalty per each party member down.

 

 

That's actually not that bad of an idea. A -5 Morale Penalty that affected a range of things (not just necessarily Accuracy, imo) would utterly murder the whole "I'm just going to let him pass out, instead of keeping him up" issue.

[wanderon]

Just had the Medreth fight slow to a crawl not sure why - but suspect it was a "seal" from the BB priest with an AoE from the BB wizard in the area of the Paladins aura - let it go on auto pilot and the battle was eventually won but it was like watching a series of still shots and finally after the loot was gathered things got back to normal - saved - quit and restarted puter. 

[Gromnir]

 

 

 

 

(we have no idea how the math is worked out to explain concentration)

Base Concentration is 50 for all units AFAIK. So it's 50 * (1 + [{(Resolve - 10) * 6}/100])

 

15 Resolve - 10 = 5. 5 * 6 = 30%

 

30% of 50 = 15

 

Concentration = 65

 

 

correct.

 

then we end up with an equal bad situation if we use 68.8 for a 22 perception archer when needing counter the 86 concentration for 22 resolve.

 

*shrug*

 

we see what you is saying. 72% o' 40 is 28.8.  unfortunately, based on the new calculation for resolve, would that result in a marked improvement for interrupts compared to old formula?

 

perhaps it would be too obvious to make an average weapon have a base value o' 50 instead o' 40 and adjust everything else accordingly?

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

 

The base interrupt of 'heavy weapons' is 50, so you should get 68 vs 68 if you with 22 perception take on a high (22) resolve enemy with a greatsword or something. But you'll be attacking less often. The base is 30 on things like daggers, so you'd get 40.8 vs 68 if you were attacking with them, but you'd attack so much more often it isn't clear without simulation to me which way would grant you more interrupts in the long run. Plus there's always the talent Interrupting Blows which grants an extra +15% interrupt chance. Though whether that's relative or absolute, I've not checked.

 

there is a good experiment to see practical implications.  go to dyrwood ruins and using a bow, sick your bb rogue on a skaen healer or spell caster.  have other party members avoid attacking the heals... fight in a doorway.  this scenario can result in a very long battle.  even with a near guaranteed chance o' interrupt, the enemy spell caster is able to spam heals like a cornered gifted posting. 

 

as for quick attacks, they ain't a be all and end all.  in the meredeth's (sp?) group there is a spell caster with a 72 concentration.  we put a stiletto wielding priest o' skaen with ruffian weapon focus on the caster.  our priest had the best accuracy in our little band o' misfits and an interrupt o' 79.  the enemy caster were not rendered impotent simply by having us attack him. go ahead and try it out a few times.

 

perception is mechanical near-useless w/o interrupt. am not averse to making it a bit more effective than it has been in the past.

 

oh, and sensuki shows a video with ogre and bears, but is anecdotal and limited to one situation.  if one bear doesn't fail a reflex check, sensuki is likely kibble. once the bears is prone, even a terrible interrupt chance is likely to be successful due to condition adjustments.  scenario presented is the complete ideal, and not necessarily likely, application o' slicken that makes that resolution possible, not the interrupt chances. 

 

as for large/strong weapons, well, with a dex o' 18, they is still having a relative slow attack rate.  heal spells, in particular, has very fast cast times.  am finding our self unable to interrupt most enemy knockdown attempts with a greatsword. even so, am not thinking that the weapon interrupt chances is scaled appropriately 'tween weakest and strongest, but that is mere gut reaction based on only Gromnir's gameplay and not having the benefit o' seeing game testing first hand. use 50 for average and scale up/down 5 instead o' ten? as we say, just gut on scaling.

 

as to beardless asians and native americans, it is difficult to make blanket statements, though we has done similar in the past.  Gromnir can't grow facial hair, but that is common amongst the lakota.  graham greene, the guy from dances with wolves, is... kanadian. am not sure what exactly his heritage is, but he sports very impressive facial hair when he chooses to. jerk.  

 

http://www.ainu-museum.or.jp/en/study/eng01.html

 

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Namutree]

 

New Features:

 

- Selection Circle Thickness console command

- Changed how Remove Engagement works - explained in video

 

Mod links for Windows, Mac and Linux

 

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/62420848/iemod-435-v3-windows.zip

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/62420848/iemod-435-v3-linux.zip

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/62420848/iemod-435-v3-macos.zip

 

Also if you're thinking of using the mod, at Adam Brennecke's request please revert back to the default Assembly if you're doing any bug testing. Even though the mod is pretty solid and I haven't found any mod specific bugs for quite some time, it does change many minor things about the game that could be mistakenly reported as a bug. Mod components are documented here: http://rien-ici.com/iemod/

This is just wonderful. Very IE like. Does removing engagement make the game easier though?

[Sensuki]

Does removing engagement make the game easier though?

Yeah, because you can actually move and not suffer disengagement attacks. If modding takes off, I may do something to offset that.

 

I have many gripes with the mechanic, but the most annoying thing about it is you can't even make a micro-movements in combat without suffering from one, like moving a step to one side. There are also cases where auto-attack and pathfinding AI makes you break engagement and suffer needless disengagement attacks when it shouldn't (although hopefully those issues will eventually be fixed).

 

It's optional and toggleable, so you can try encounters with or without it simply by reloading and ticking/unticking.

Edited February 5, 2015 by Sensuki

[Whipstitch]

 

Prey on the Weak was a lot better than the other deity talents but I'd have prefered the other talents get buffed instead.

I agree. Unfortunately they seem to go the 'nerf the strong one' route rather than buff the weak ones.

 

 

I see this a lot in various beta tests and I'm really curious as to what the argument for it is. I mean, I understand the justification in games that have gone live--taking away or nerfing various toys understandably breeds a fair amount of resentment given people have invested time or energy into something that has now been made into a less optimal strategy and nerfing them as opposed to quietly handing out nerf-equivalent buffs also makes those people feel singled out. But well, this is a beta test, and that frankly shouldn't be a concern at this point, and making outliers conform the the expected standard is a helluva lot easier than setting a new standard and trying to adjust everything to meet it.

[Sensuki]

In that particular case, I think Sneak Attack itself was also nerfed to x1.25, of which a Lesser Sneak Attack of x1.2 makes sense.

[Ashen Rohk]

Ranger is...alright now, actually. The small amount of spells it has are pretty cool and Master's Call is hilarious knocking down a line of bad guys.

 

It's main problem, however, is the fact that the Druid is also in the game. And out of the two roughly based nature classes, you'd be insane to pick it over Druid.

[CottonWolf]

 

The base interrupt of 'heavy weapons' is 50, so you should get 68 vs 68 if you with 22 perception take on a high (22) resolve enemy with a greatsword or something. But you'll be attacking less often. The base is 30 on things like daggers, so you'd get 40.8 vs 68 if you were attacking with them, but you'd attack so much more often it isn't clear without simulation to me which way would grant you more interrupts in the long run. Plus there's always the talent Interrupting Blows which grants an extra +15% interrupt chance. Though whether that's relative or absolute, I've not checked.

 

 

Not that it overly matters, but I got the maths wrong. With heavy weapons it would be 86 vs 86. With light it would be 51.6 vs 86. Assuming that Interrupting blows is also relative, with 20 PER (the maximum available at chargen), interrupting blows and a standard heavy weapon that gives you 87.5, and with light weapons it would be 52.5 and with a morningstar (60 standard interrupt) a ridiculous base interrupt of 105.

Edited February 5, 2015 by CottonWolf

[Odd Hermit]

Speaking of ranger, anyone else have an issue where the ranger animal companion disappears? I'm not sure what caused it, and it wasn't killed in combat or anything - happened before I'd even gone into combat. I'm wondering if hiring another adventurer somehow replaced his bear? I can't find a way to resummon either.

[Ashen Rohk]

Not me.

 

 

Also, when did chanter ability acquisition get nerfed into the ground? The fire weapon chant is now 3rd level and a lot of the other abilities have been massively upleveled. Only found this out when playing with the IE mod.

[Odd Hermit]

With the new intellect, I'm really wishing Godlike wasn't the only race with a +int bonus. I like getting my numbers rounded, 54% and 45% doesn't feel right, I want that 60/50! I think elves should get int considering their race description includes intelligence. Maybe Wood elves get the Dex, Pale get the Int or something. Or just give them +1 int/dex/per and -1 something else.

 

Another small thing I hope they manage to include is ability to name save games.

 

Not me.

 

 

Also, when did chanter ability acquisition get nerfed into the ground? The fire weapon chant is now 3rd level and a lot of the other abilities have been massively upleveled. Only found this out when playing with the IE mod.

 

Just recently in 434/5 - Chanter needed a nerf though.

Edited February 5, 2015 by Odd Hermit

[Gromnir]

 

 

The base interrupt of 'heavy weapons' is 50, so you should get 68 vs 68 if you with 22 perception take on a high (22) resolve enemy with a greatsword or something. But you'll be attacking less often. The base is 30 on things like daggers, so you'd get 40.8 vs 68 if you were attacking with them, but you'd attack so much more often it isn't clear without simulation to me which way would grant you more interrupts in the long run. Plus there's always the talent Interrupting Blows which grants an extra +15% interrupt chance. Though whether that's relative or absolute, I've not checked.

 

 

Not that it overly matters, but I got the maths wrong. With heavy weapons it would be 86 vs 86. With light it would be 51.6 vs 86. Assuming that Interrupting blows is also relative, with 20 PER (the maximum available at chargen), interrupting blows and a standard heavy weapon that gives you 87.5, and with light weapons it would be 52.5 and with a morningstar (60 standard interrupt) a ridiculous base interrupt of 105.

 

 so with your morningstar situation, a weapon that is a relative slow weapon that will fail to interrupt many spells and actions regardless, going against a 20 resolve character (80 concentration,) you would still need a roll 'o 26 to succeed on interrupt. you hit a guy with a morningstar and you interrupt approx 3 outta 4 times?  is not too bizarre, but as we noted earlier, we believes weapons should scale smaller from average at 50.  make scale at 5 instead o' 10.  gets us closer to 2 outta three.  

 

is perhaps a peculiarity o' the poe ai thus far that we needs resolve more for our front-liners than for casters. we typical fight in a doorway or any kinda bottleneck and have caster in rear not getting hit anywhere near as much as front-line combatants. our caster in the beta is not suffering debilitating interruptions.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Sedrefilos]

Just finished a video on ranger, they're a lot better than they were previously but they're outshone by everything else except rogue.

Is it up somewhere?

[Bazy]

Here's a video demonstrating the new features in IE Mod 435 v3

 

 

I never really had a problem with default engagement. But that demonstration is making me consider using this mod. 

[MoonWolf]

So I've been giving Path of the Damned a try again. Good news, its not totally playable. Except for that damn ogre with his pack of 5 bears, two of which are elder bears.

 

Let me tell you about Elder Bears, those things are practically bossfights on their own. Going to have to figure out something for that fight, i can disengage and try luring stuff out one by one but honestly if I pull an elder bear its a good chance i wipe, if its an elder bear plus anything else its definitely just over.