Mishandled development

[Malignacious]

- Too much content, do people really care about so many classes and so many plotline replays, which frankly, only the tiniest portion of people would ever consume?

 

- You focused on the quantity of the content, not quality.

 

- By focusing on the quantity instead of quality, you tricked people into this illusion of false dichotomy, that they will enjoy more content even if it is poorly realized, and in the process rendering yourselves as hardcore old-school developers who care about deep gameplay mechanics and story.

 

- Why not 6 classes instead of 11 ??

Do you really think that gameplay archetypes can be achieved if you shove as many character labels and "unique" spells as possible, instead of just dispersing various pertinent talents and abilities, properly implemented, across 6 classes?

 

- Ask yourselves; what is more enjoyable for the vast majority of people: creating highly polished reactive classes which visually emphasize how you lead and develop them in the gameworld, or shoving as much stuff as possible so you can say that the game has a lot of stuff ?

You actually are trying to put so much stuff in it that if you remove half of it, people would still think it's an epic RPG(of course, if it actually had production values)

 

- You completely failed at game development, this is not an interactive novel! 

It's a video game, put some production values in it like you did with Dungeon Siege 3. It's frankly embarrassing how you let your standards fall to the ground by entertaining this ludicrous notion you got from people when they tell you that they don't care about animations and graphics.

Don't trust them when they tell you this! 

They're confused because they're conflating categories and misinterpreting the nature of the product.

But when they actually start playing the game and everything feels like total crap because of those two foundational components(which most people can't pinpoint anyway) severely lacking, they will cluelessly let everyone know how much they have encouraged you to make it exactly like that!

 

Over 4 million dollars was more than adequate to make an enjoyable, epic, isometric, pseudo 3D RPG with high production values. Just stop listening to the incoherent nostalgia people; focus, polish, and streamline!

 

 

 

 

 

 

[archangel979]

If there was a downvote in this forums, my bet would be your post would receive most of those...

[Malignacious]

If there was a downvote in this forums, my bet would be your post would receive most of those...

I'm more interested in actual arguments than toxic populism.

[Cubiq]

You want arguments yet claim we don't know any better, so what you're after IS toxic populism.

Edited October 3, 2014 by Cubiq

[Ink Blot]

Okay, before I just thought you were one of those misguided 'MOAH GRAFIXX' types, but now I see you're just blatantly trolling.

[archangel979]

 

If there was a downvote in this forums, my bet would be your post would receive most of those...

I'm more interested in actual arguments than toxic populism.

 

There are no arguments needed when you have just written a post that is completely opposite of PoE kickstarter goals. It is totally unimportant to argue with you. 

This is equal to going to DA:I forums and asking they implement pixelart and have turn based combat and no voice over, it is opposite of what that game is about.

Edited October 3, 2014 by archangel979

[Infinitron]

Oh, get banned already, will you?

Edited October 3, 2014 by Infinitron

[Malignacious]

There are no arguments needed when you have just written a post that is completely opposite of PoE kickstarter goals. It is totally unimportant to argue with you. 

This is equal to going to DA:I forums and asking they implement pixelart and have turn based combat and no voice over, it is opposite of what that game is about.

 

 

You have a troubling reading comprehension issue, which you should address.

In no way is this in conflict with the stated kickstarter goals and what the game was suppose to be like.

 

Just don't lower your standards until you bust a hole to the other side of Earth. That's all I'm saying.

[redneckdevil]

1-yes i do care about it. Hell i loved finding stuff in fonv that the actual guide book didnt even give hints about.

2-id rather have quality but in the end i believe we are getting both. Take skyrim for example, tonsssss of stuff to do in that game but nothing actually matters or effects the game world u live in. Its just there for the illusion of busy work. Im tired of that. I also like an actual ending so i can begin again and try new things out and go a different path which ties into point 1. Also i will disagree with right now they are focusing on quality. It shows through the art work, dialogue, and id dare say the reworking of the atributes.

3-again i disagree with quantity and i believe they are focusing on quality. You are correct focusing on quantity over quality leads to that and i gave an example of skyrim to show a game that indeed goes that route, bute have yet to see anything so far in the beta to lead me down the belief that u have.

4-so far from what i have played and something alot of people on the forums can agree with surprisingly is that each class feels different so yes they have already proven and shown they are capable of those many classes and not being simple archtypes

5-umm they are actually focusing on quality again and i have given a few examples of where. Class designs, artwork, dialogue, etc. Now ive given examples to show why i believe they are focusing on quality, where are your examples of them not focusing on quality and instead focusing on quantity??

6-lol i am enjoying those tears of yours ) they have stated from the very beginning that this a STORY focused game which means there is a plot u will follow. Their quality has not dropped but are actually high. Your quality of posts and accusations all to get attention are severly lacking.

 

There. I know u are a basement troll and i have just given you a meal by giving you attention by answering ur points. While i know a troll will regenerate when u cut them down or take them apart, trolls can starve to death. So this was the last straw, ive giving u a lil bit of attention and will now lock that basement door which u live in screaming and trolling for attention by putting you on ignore. Eventually enough people will stop feeding you and u will waste away by posting ur very poorly flame bait and wonder why no one is responding and giving you attention because they will have u on ignore. So fare well, this will be the last time i see your drivel for attention.

[TheisEjsing]

You always talk about arguments, yet the premises for your arguments, are in conflict with the fundamentals of the game.

One example: - Why not 6 classes instead of 11 ??

 

"Do you really think that gameplay archetypes can be achieved if you shove as many character labels and "unique" spells as possible, instead of just dispersing various pertinent talents and abilities, properly implemented, across 6 classes?"

This game is a spirituel successor to games with much more than 6 classes, and additional classes were even stretch goals... Which means that your 4 million dollars are earmarked for, among other things, more than 6 classes.

 

Jeeh, it's like kindergarten all over again with you.

Edited October 3, 2014 by TheisEjsing

[Malignacious]

and additional classes were even stretch goals... 

 

So, mishandled development is not when you put superfluous content as stretch goals instead of high production values?

 

They couldn't have possibly constructed sentences which would generate enthusiasm in other ways..

Edited October 3, 2014 by Malignacious

[Uomoz]

I like how this i***t's posts actually reinforce this community and its attachment to the game. Keep at it Malignacious!

 

EDIT: I summon thy back to the RPGcodex cave!

Edited October 3, 2014 by Uomoz

[PrimeJunta]

Oo, my favorite troll on a roll again! 

 

- Too much content, do people really care about so many classes and so many plotline replays, which frankly, only the tiniest portion of people would ever consume?

Yes. Next question?

 

- You focused on the quantity of the content, not quality.

Yes, with qualifications: I'm willing to compromise a LOT on graphics, animations, and FX to get more content. I would not be willing to compromise on the quality of writing, quest reactivity, or systems depth however.

 

- By focusing on the quantity instead of quality, you tricked people into this illusion of false dichotomy, that they will enjoy more content even if it is poorly realized, and in the process rendering yourselves as hardcore old-school developers who care about deep gameplay mechanics and story.

Ha! This is wonderfully nonsensical, even from you. Earlier you claimed the quantity/quality trade-off is an actual false dichotomy; now it's an "illusion of false dichotomy." That's pretty awesome; even "illusion of false dichotomy" is pretty good. Also, "tricked." Cool.

 

We already established, though, that we do care more about quantity than quality, with the narrow definition of "quality" you use above.

 

- Why not 6 classes instead of 11 ??

Do you really think that gameplay archetypes can be achieved if you shove as many character labels and "unique" spells as possible, instead of just dispersing various pertinent talents and abilities, properly implemented, across 6 classes?

No, that would work perfectly well. I'd be quite happy with six, three, or zero classes, if I had as much possible variety as with the 11 classes we have here.

 

Thing is, it's not the number of classes that takes work to develop. It's the variety, however you distribute it. And, as stated above, I am willing to give up a lot in animations, graphics, etc. to get more of that variety.

 

- Ask yourselves; what is more enjoyable for the vast majority of people: creating highly polished reactive classes which visually emphasize how you lead and develop them in the gameworld, or shoving as much stuff as possible so you can say that the game has a lot of stuff ?

You actually are trying to put so much stuff in it that if you remove half of it, people would still think it's an epic RPG(of course, if it actually had production values)

Certainly creating highly polished reactive classes etc.

 

Thing is, this game was not created for "most people." It was created specifically for us annoying nostalgia freaks.

 

- You completely failed at game development, this is not an interactive novel!

An interactive novel is a linear experience with little reactivity and little gameplay. Just having a lot of writing does not make a game an interactive novel. If P:E has plenty of reactivity, lots of alternative ways to do things, and lots of optional content, it is not an interactive novel.

 

It's a video game, put some production values in it like you did with Dungeon Siege 3. It's frankly embarrassing how you let your standards fall to the ground by entertaining this ludicrous notion you got from people when they tell you that they don't care about animations and graphics.

Don't trust them when they tell you this! 

Would you post a video of yourself doing a dramatic reading of this paragraph? I'll take "Leave Britney Alone" or "Angry Saruman." Your choice.

 

They're confused because they're conflating categories and misinterpreting the nature of the product.

But when they actually start playing the game and everything feels like total crap because of those two foundational components(which most people can't pinpoint anyway) severely lacking, they will cluelessly let everyone know how much they have encouraged you to make it exactly like that!

 

Over 4 million dollars was more than adequate to make an enjoyable, epic, isometric, pseudo 3D RPG with high production values. Just stop listening to the incoherent nostalgia people; focus, polish, and streamline!

You have such a winning personality that I'm sure they'll take your advice and get right on it!

[Tale]

So, mishandled development is not when you put superfluous content as stretch goals instead of high production values?

Correct.

[mtroman85]

 Just stop listening to the incoherent nostalgia people; focus, polish, and streamline!

 

Yes, ignore the people who funded this project and make a game that is the opposite of what it was kickstarted for.  That'll work great!

[rjshae]

Okay, who's got the oil and torches? A pitchfork; we'll need some of those as well.

[poolofpoo]

Okay, who's got the oil and torches? A pitchfork; we'll need some of those as well.

 

Please stop with the racist remarks, not all muslims burn oil with pitchforks. Let's focus on the game instead...

[aluminiumtrioxid]

...This site really needs some stricter banning policies.

[poolofpoo]

...This site really needs some stricter banning policies.

 

agreed

[Sensuki]

EDIT: I summon thy back to the RPGcodex cave!

He's not from the RPGCodex. I am, so is Infinitron, C2B, Hormalakh, mutonizer, Arkeus, Malekith, PrimeJunta, Tigranes (a moderator) ...

 

Despite what many people believe, the RPGCodex contributes good things to the RPG community and has raised a lot of money for lots of the Kickstarters. There's two reasons why people may not like the place - the list of preferred titles, and the undermoderation. I prefer undermoderation myself.

Edited October 3, 2014 by Sensuki

[Ieo]

The best response to these threads is popcorn.

Personally, I like toffee-covered popcorn.

[PrimeJunta]

@Sensuki Hey now, I'm not exactly from the Codex even if I have a pretty old account there and have started posting a little bit lately. At one point it was about 95% wannabie 4chan and 5% substance; nowadays the ratio is a lot better, to no small extent thanks to the distinguished gentlemen you listed.

[rjshae]

 

EDIT: I summon thy back to the RPGcodex cave!

He's not from the RPGCodex. I am, so is Infinitron, C2B, Hormalakh, mutonizer, Arkeus, Malekith, PrimeJunta, Tigranes (a moderator) ...

 

Despite what many people believe, the RPGCodex contributes good things to the RPG community and has raised a lot of money for lots of the Kickstarters. There's two reasons why people may not like the place - the list of preferred titles, and the undermoderation. I prefer undermoderation myself.

 

No offense and I agree they do some good work there at the RPGCodex, but personally I like to have the sewage filtered before it flows back into my tap water.

[Malignacious]

...This site really needs some stricter banning policies.

 

I'm not really bothered by your fascistic tendencies, but obviously some do like me.

[gladestone]

You don't like the game follow another one.Mosr people ignore your posts.an your misguided ignorance