Off-putting design choices (names and races)

[Bulkbu]

Don't you also think that the world they created is really hard to relate to?

 

Every fantasy world is inherently foreign but in PoE's case names of countries, states, towns and folks feel so overly "made up".

 

If you compare the naming of races and their background to Baldurs Gate, the Black Eye games, or even Lord of the Rings, things come accross as if a 12 year old boy had come up with them while playing with Lego. Don't get me wrong, I have absolutely nothing against going against "high fantasy" conventions, but as PoE's universe is discribed at the moment it just doesn't feel right from a linguistic point of view. Also, the new races feel a little out of place. One looks like Na'vi, the other looks like demonspawn. That's were I question the intrinsic logic of PoE's races. Wouldn't Godlike always be outcasts of society (considering in-group, out-group thinking which is likely to be also found in a fictive world as well)? Wouldn't this have a massive impact on how every single dialog in the game unfolds?

 

All the little bugs, too few character portraits and gameplay mechanics which have to be polished don't make me worry. But the points described above really make me sad since they're so important to make a RPG feel authentic.

[Blarghagh]

Overly made up? They sound Welsh or Celtic, much more real world roots than fairy land Faerun?

[IndiraLightfoot]

Bulkbu: Josh is practically an accomplished linguist. Right now, it's one of the things that stand out as really lovely and promising about PoE right now. Kudos to Josh for that. It must have been hard work coming up with semi-made-up, while familiar tongues.

[Fluffle]

Wouldn't Godlike always be outcasts of society (considering in-group, out-group thinking which is likely to be also found in a fictive world as well)? Wouldn't this have a massive impact on how every single dialog in the game unfolds?

 

 

 

 

I share your concern for the Godlike. Especially when it comes down to Death Godlike who are commonly killed at birth

for what they look like.

 

I thought so as well, that every single dialog in the game would have to be effected by this - which obviously would be far too

much work.

 

So I was told to roleplay the appropriate reaction in my head.

I'm fine with this actually. I'll just imagine that people are far too frightened by an andult Death Godlike

as to call him out on their ugliness or openly showing hostility towards them.

[PrimeJunta]

Uh... no?

[Greensleeve]

Uh... no?

 

Pretty much this. The language presented in PoE is pretty great and feels really quite natural. 

[dorkboy]

It's poetry.. the poetry of War.

[ashtonw]

What the hell is up with people comparing the Aumaua to Na'vi? Na'vi are like sexy blue cat people and Aumaua are shark people.

 

Being a godlike does not have to change every dialogue because not everyone in the world is going to be a big enough jerk to comment on a stranger's physical deformities.

[Sylvanpyxie]

 

 

Being a godlike does not have to change every dialogue because not everyone in the world is going to be a big enough jerk to comment on a stranger's physical deformities.

More importantly, if there was a guy with a face made entirely of MAGMA staring you in the eye you wouldn't exactly want to piss him off.

[Leferd]

Because everyone in the Free Palatinate of Dyrwood can't seem to talk or behave without a filter. It's cultural.

[prodigydancer]

Being a godlike does not have to change every dialogue because not everyone in the world is going to be a big enough jerk to comment on a stranger's physical deformities.

Those are not deformities. Quoting from wiki: "Godlike manifest their divine heritage in a variety of ways: wings, horns, strange birthmarks, talons, odd eyes - but they always manifest it somehow."

 

I'm not sure how common godlike are but I'm under impression that they're a bit too common for an odd curiosity. So I'd expect derogatory comments more along the lines of "hey, it's another one of them freaks" rather than "whoa! get a load of that guy's mug!"

Edited August 28, 2014 by prodigydancer

[HoonDing]

Bulkbu: Josh is practically an accomplished linguist. Right now, it's one of the things that stand out as really lovely and promising about PoE right now. Kudos to Josh for that. It must have been hard work coming up with semi-made-up, while familiar tongues.

[Mayama]

 the Black Eye games, or even Lord of the Rings, things come accross as if a 12 year old boy had come up with them while playing with Lego.

 

The english version is actually called realms of arcania. I dont know if the english version is a complete overhaul but the original is the cheesiest fantasy PnP RPG setting ever, its so generic and average that it hurts. The forgotten realms in AD&D are a explosion of creativity and weirdness compared to realms of arcania.

 

 

 

BTW: Does anyone know why the forgotten realms are forgotten?

Edited August 28, 2014 by Mayama

[Nonek]

Celtic/Gaelic, Old English/Norse and Latin are fairly much the industry standard, usually mixed together without thought or care. Poe seems to be taking a more in depth look at these languages and their heritage, personally I find that refreshing. Obviously it's not on par with professor Tolkien as Mr Ding points out, but he was a world respected authority on the subject.

 

Edit: Still not sure how to pronounce the Ooh Mama species however.

Edited August 28, 2014 by Nonek

[Bulkbu]

Celtic/Gaelic, Old English/Norse and Latin are fairly much the industry standard, usually mixed together without thought or care. Poe seems to be taking a more in depth look at these languages and their heritage, personally I find that refreshing. Obviously it's not on par with professor Tolkien as Mr Ding points out, but he was a world respected authority on the subject.

 

Edit: Still not sure how to pronounce the Ooh Mama species however.

Putting the languages you named together makes sense, since they are all found together in a relatively small area and have certain common characteristics. My problem with throwing languages together which aren't related at all, only makes sense when the games' world is extremely large. In a sense, you portray an "international" community if you mix latin, english, norse, and all kinds of other ancient languages such as mayan tongue with "itxl" affixes. In Baldurs Gate, for example, you had a feeling for how much time it takes to travel by foot from one city to the other. In an environment like that, a multicultural melting pot doesn't appear convincing to me. Many different races, make sense, yes, but here the problem is that every race has a different place on the fictive planet on which PoE is staged from where they come. Why would they all come together? Why would they have travelled half around the world to hang out in the places the player appears? Maybe I'm overly critical here, but most fantasy universes offer better explanations and background than what I've seen so far.

[Wintersong]

I thought so as well, that every single dialog in the game would have to be effected by this - which obviously would be far too

much work.

As long as they get more reactions than the drow PC in NwN2... Or playing a Monk and meeting the Monk wannabe Khelgar.

[ashtonw]

 

Celtic/Gaelic, Old English/Norse and Latin are fairly much the industry standard, usually mixed together without thought or care. Poe seems to be taking a more in depth look at these languages and their heritage, personally I find that refreshing. Obviously it's not on par with professor Tolkien as Mr Ding points out, but he was a world respected authority on the subject.

 

Edit: Still not sure how to pronounce the Ooh Mama species however.

Putting the languages you named together makes sense, since they are all found together in a relatively small area and have certain common characteristics. My problem with throwing languages together which aren't related at all, only makes sense when the games' world is extremely large. In a sense, you portray an "international" community if you mix latin, english, norse, and all kinds of other ancient languages such as mayan tongue with "itxl" affixes. In Baldurs Gate, for example, you had a feeling for how much time it takes to travel by foot from one city to the other. In an environment like that, a multicultural melting pot doesn't appear convincing to me. Many different races, make sense, yes, but here the problem is that every race has a different place on the fictive planet on which PoE is staged from where they come. Why would they all come together? Why would they have travelled half around the world to hang out in the places the player appears? Maybe I'm overly critical here, but most fantasy universes offer better explanations and background than what I've seen so far.

 

 

Colonialism, one of the major themes of the game. How is that not convincing.

 

 

Being a godlike does not have to change every dialogue because not everyone in the world is going to be a big enough jerk to comment on a stranger's physical deformities.

Those are not deformities. Quoting from wiki: "Godlike manifest their divine heritage in a variety of ways: wings, horns, strange birthmarks, talons, odd eyes - but they always manifest it somehow."

 

I'm not sure how common godlike are but I'm under impression that they're a bit too common for an odd curiosity. So I'd expect derogatory comments more along the lines of "hey, it's another one of them freaks" rather than "whoa! get a load of that guy's mug!"

 

 

yes godlikes manifest their divine heritage in bizarre deformities, thank you

[HoonDing]

I'm pretty sure it was posted here somewhere that PoE setting was deliberately based on Dalelands/Myth Drannor + Dragon Coast from D&D.

 

EDIT: http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/59911-obsidian-has-a-kickstarter-profile/page-4#entry1184688

 

Knowing this, I cannot help but chuckle everytime someone derides Faerun in a PoE related discussion.

Edited August 28, 2014 by HoonDing

[rjshae]

Godlike: Hey, we don't serve their kind here...

 

[Barothmuk]

Still not sure how to pronounce the Ooh Mama species however.

Aww (rhymes with door) Mao (as in Zedong) Ahh (as in Doctor: "Say ahhh")

 

Yup.

[Lephys]

Being a godlike does not have to change every dialogue because not everyone in the world is going to be a big enough jerk to comment on a stranger's physical deformities.

Exactly. That, and people seem to keep thinking in terms of "There's just a world full of normal people, and SUDDENLY, A WILD GODLIKE APPEARS!". Like they've never seen one in their lives.

 

You can't think in terms of what's weird to us humans, in reality, because we don't and haven't lived amongst that specific weirdness for generations and generations. What you think of the godlike's looks is not nearly the same thing as what any given citizen of Eora thinks of their looks. It's no different from the sight of Elves, or Orlans, or Aumaua, etc.

[Nonek]

 

Celtic/Gaelic, Old English/Norse and Latin are fairly much the industry standard, usually mixed together without thought or care. Poe seems to be taking a more in depth look at these languages and their heritage, personally I find that refreshing. Obviously it's not on par with professor Tolkien as Mr Ding points out, but he was a world respected authority on the subject.

 

Edit: Still not sure how to pronounce the Ooh Mama species however.

 

Putting the languages you named together makes sense, since they are all found together in a relatively small area and have certain common characteristics. My problem with throwing languages together which aren't related at all, only makes sense when the games' world is extremely large. In a sense, you portray an "international" community if you mix latin, english, norse, and all kinds of other ancient languages such as mayan tongue with "itxl" affixes. In Baldurs Gate, for example, you had a feeling for how much time it takes to travel by foot from one city to the other. In an environment like that, a multicultural melting pot doesn't appear convincing to me. Many different races, make sense, yes, but here the problem is that every race has a different place on the fictive planet on which PoE is staged from where they come. Why would they all come together? Why would they have travelled half around the world to hang out in the places the player appears? Maybe I'm overly critical here, but most fantasy universes offer better explanations and background than what I've seen so far.

 

 

I don't believe that every species and race of humanity has come together in the Dyrwood Mr Bu, one assumes that there has been an inrush of peoples to a thriving newly born colony, but there certainly seem to be a few missing from what we know of the world. Compare it with the new born colonies of America, where folk from all the races of humanity came to try and make their fortune, certainly with Vaillia to the south, Aedyr to the north and the Dyrwood mainly being formed by Aedyrean settlers that seems a more than logical comparison.

 

However apart from the protagonist and his party, whom by their very nature will be exotic and out of the ordinary, I doubt we will see many representatives of far off races and species. Old Vaillian's, Boreal Dwarves, Oohmama's of Rootytooty, the Itchyscratchy's ecetera will probably be foreign faces, exotic adventurers and roisterers come to see if the streets of Defiance Bay really are paved with gold.

 

Most likely we will see mainly Aedyrean's using their Old English/Norse tongue in the Dyrwood, Glenfathan's using their Celtic/Gaelic tongue when we venture into Eir Glenfath and of course Vaillians using their Latin-ish language from the neighbouring republics, come to trade and what have you. In the cities there will be far more exotics and travellers, in the villages and countryside a far more dominant racial grouping if this is anything like our cultures at all.

 

However this is all supposition, and I have not played the game nor do I seek to defend it from criticism, so I may well be wrong. This is what i'd like to see personally however.

[Freshock]

I don't see the "over the top"-names, seems to me like the universe fits together just right. But wether you are attracted to that setting is individual, personally I have a hard time relating to any sci-fi fantasy. 

 

Did a quick search on Lord of The Rings-names, and I've got to say (although I love the movies) - some "12 year olds playing lego" could make up these names:

Harry Goatleaf, Bob, Helm Hammerhand and Bard the Bowman.

[constantine]

I totally disagree with the member that started this topic.