This game needs polish!

[war:head]

UI / Interface is not an early dev fix & forget issue. RPG UIs at least tend to keep getting polished right to the end.

Optically and in-game, yes, but disappearing text in the main menu?

At this point I'd expect the boiler plate code providing the basic menu functionality to be working properly and not contain bugs like this. 

 

But this is just a minor concern of mine and might be entirely unfounded as Obsidian may be developing software in an entirely different way.

[jivex5k]

I'm happy this beta is buggy, I can directly contribute to fixing it with good feedback. This is how a beta test is supposed to work, and I especially appreciate their spoiler free and here are a bunch of ability points to spend approach. 

This thread is stating the obvious but it's important to give feedback, what is obvious to us may not be obvious to devs who are working with an entrenched perspective. 

[AdaMusic]

Actually, I'm pretty impressed with what I've seen so far. No C++ runtime errors, no DirectX issues, even on my oddball SLI system with multiple video reflection drivers. No CTD's, no missing, scrambled or wrongly colored textures, no oddities from the 2D perspective projection they've created, no strange lighting behavior.

 

In other words: The engine appears to be pretty solid. Fixing the rest is all in the scripting and data files, which concerns me far less than if I was seeing stuff like crash dumps.

 

OP: You're coming across as a little alarmist. Raising issues is a good thing, but...

 

Well said. Yea the engine seems really really solid. 

[Quadrone]

 

 

 

I know what you’re thinking. Of course it does, stupid! It’s still in beta.

 

Yup, that's exactly what I think.

Yeah. This.

 

Can't be repeated enough. Absolutely retarded.

[talharbash]

Some people are going to come at me for saying this but I do wish they spent more time on the game than promoting it at things like gamescom. Because it's starting to feel like they still have a lot on their plate.

[Panteleimon]

Some people are going to come at me for saying this but I do wish they spent more time on the game than promoting it at things like gamescom. Because it's starting to feel like they still have a lot on their plate.

 

 

Come on man, they sent like 4 guys to one of the largest press events in PC gaming for a long weekend to plug it so they can actually sell it to more than just the backers. They're doing their job.

[Saerileth]

I've seen a lot of posts along the lines of "hopefully Obsidian will take the time they need to give this game the polish it deserves" meaning that a delay in release would be preferrable to loss of quality. While that's certainly an admirable sentiment, I can't help but wonder - who's going to pay the people who work on the game for that extended period of time? This is not a publisher we're talking about that can just sink another few grands into production in case of an emergency. If I understood right from one of their interviews (can't remember which one at the moment) they fully intend to keep working until their funds run out, which should be around sometime in December. So it might just not be about the fans being willing to wait for Pillars of Eternity a bit longer, but about how to pay the bills.

[Sad Panda]

Have to agree, the game looks very unfinished at this point. Besides the bugs and missing content, there's clearly a lot of core functionalities that are still in the process of being implemented. As such, I'm hoping the game will not come out this year, as it's difficult for me to see it being ready in the next few months. I'm sorry to say that I've grown accustomed to only picking up Obsidian games a few months after the release due to them so customarily being released buggy and unpolished, and I'd rather not see the same happen with PoE. I understand that pushing back the release piles on overhead costs and diminishes the effectiveness of marketing already done up to this point, but seriously guys, please take your time to do it right.

[Arouet]

Hey, at least it's more polished than Alpha Protocol.

Edited August 19, 2014 by Arouet

[Bryy]

 

Some people are going to come at me for saying this but I do wish they spent more time on the game than promoting it at things like gamescom. Because it's starting to feel like they still have a lot on their plate.

 

 

Come on man, they sent like 4 guys to one of the largest press events in PC gaming for a long weekend to plug it so they can actually sell it to more than just the backers. They're doing their job.

 

They are also video game developers that have to deliver a hugely ambitious project independent of publisher or VC money. 

 

They do have a lot on their plate regardless.

 

To think developing video games is easy is foolish.

[Marceror]

There seems to be a fair few posters who seem to think that because this is a beta and because it's the first 24 hours we shouldn't be calling out the games flaws. That's rubbish. I can only react to the game state I'm seeing right now, not the one that will exist after a patch or two.

 

I have also said that I believe PoE has the makings of a truly great game, so stop acting like I'm here just to trash it. All of my points about the game are being presented in a constructive, respectful manner, so I've certainly nothing to apologize for.

 

If I could actually play the game without my equipment constantly disappearing I'm sure I never would have made this post. But I can't, and I know OE was aware of this bug prior to releasing the beta. They should have sorted it out first. I think that more than anything else us what I find unacceptable.

 

I'm not in game development, but I've worked in other software development mediums long enough to know that when you pass a critical bug to your end users for beta testing, you're only going to piss them off. I'm rather displeased that OE has chosen to do exactly that to the backers. I sincerely hope this one will be corrected with haste.

[TrueMenace]

wait for the pathfinding, auto attack and disappearing item fixes - before that, any criticism is wasted breath, those issues influence everything else way too massive

Yup these bugs are the major game-breaking ones that are preventing mostly everyone from fully testing the systems out. I mean, I wish I could beta test the game, but these bugs are really REALLY getting in the way of that. 

[Rumsteak]

A good community is composed of people who have strong different views. If everybody pontifically agrees that everything's alright, that there is nothing to worry about, yada yada, debate would be bland. There would probably be less progress than in a more passionate or spicy discussion.

 

There should be more Marceror out here. Keep up the good work man! I would actually be concerned if you weren't there.

[vril]

Some people are going to come at me for saying this but I do wish they spent more time on the game than promoting it at things like gamescom. Because it's starting to feel like they still have a lot on their plate.

 

Those people at gamescom were writers and designers, not the people who will be actively fixing the issues that everyone is posting about who are programmers and scripters.

[WillyPete]

They made a calculated decision to release the "beta" in this state.  They are now asking us to work with what we were given and help find bugs and make suggestions.  So let's do it!  Let's work together and start making coherent lists of bugs and suggestions.  Maybe the moderator can make a master list for each?  We can add to it as we play through the beta.  Be specific about the bugs and be realistic with suggestions.  Within a few short weeks we can identify the real issues and be a "bug" help in getting it released before the holidays!

[Utukka]

I'm not in game development, but I've worked in other software development mediums long enough to know that when you pass a critical bug to your end users for beta testing, you're only going to piss them off. I'm rather displeased that OE has chosen to do exactly that to the backers. I sincerely hope this one will be corrected with haste.

Well..I understand the sentiment here but at the same time...people also flip **** for a "deadline" being pushed back. Damned either way if you ask me. I understand the nature of meeting deadlines....but I do view video games as having a bit more wiggle room in this regard (especially when you are talking alpha/beta releases). This isn't like my work(pharmacy) where I'm delivering a "finished product".

[Amentep]

There seems to be a fair few posters who seem to think that because this is a beta and because it's the first 24 hours we shouldn't be calling out the games flaws. That's rubbish. I can only react to the game state I'm seeing right now, not the one that will exist after a patch or two.

I would hope - this being the beta and all - that people will be honest about the flaws. Otherwise it won't get fixed because Obsidian will think its okay.

[Marceror]

 

There seems to be a fair few posters who seem to think that because this is a beta and because it's the first 24 hours we shouldn't be calling out the games flaws. That's rubbish. I can only react to the game state I'm seeing right now, not the one that will exist after a patch or two.

I would hope - this being the beta and all - that people will be honest about the flaws. Otherwise it won't get fixed because Obsidian will think its okay.

Fully agree.

[Flow]

 

Some people are going to come at me for saying this but I do wish they spent more time on the game than promoting it at things like gamescom. Because it's starting to feel like they still have a lot on their plate.

 

Those people at gamescom were writers and designers, not the people who will be actively fixing the issues that everyone is posting about who are programmers and scripters.

 

 

Adam Brennecke's title is "Lead Programmer."

 

Not that it matters since a few days in Germany aren't going to affect project delivery.

[aeonsim]

One thing to note about betas and cut down demos is that they can be buggier than the main game due to the changes needed to create them. And secondly they can be considerably behind the main game with regards to current code, we don't exactly know when the code freeze occurred for the beta it could have been last week or it could be a month ago.

 

Secondly in modern software development systems often significant work gets done in a branch off the main code to allow for rapid experimentation and the development of new features or massive changes with out screwing up the primary build where people are testing other aspects of the software/game.

The result of this is we could see small incremental updates fixes obvious bugs specific to the beta, we can see updates that port bug fixes over from the main code base, and we could see major updates which bring in new features and significant changes to many different functions when experimental/development branches are merged back into the beta branch or main branch.

 

Until we've seen a number of updates over a reasonable period of time it's going to be hard to say how quickly things are moving.

[bob54386]

 

Patience. Wait for an update or two Marceror.

 

This is the first build released. We might see massive improvements in the very first update, or massive improvements in 3-4 updates that'll make you feel "This game can be released today!!". Naive of me to say it perhaps, but we have no real idea just how much the beta will improve in 1-2 weeks. Let alone 1-5 days. It's a mystery!

 

Yes, this topic is stupid, impatient and has an air of "entitlement". The initial thoughts would be more understandable and reasonable had you posted them 3-4 months from now.

 

We know way too little at this moment. It's been out less than 24 hours.

 

Combat is an issue, the strong parts at this moment is the feels, the presentation, exploration and the feeling of adventure in my opinion. It is fun to run around in this world

A few things here. First off, my post is not one born of "impatience." I'm plenty patient, in fact I'm the one suggesting that OE take "more" time with the game if needed. So "impatience" was the wrong argument to hit me with.

 

As for entitlement, I hear this word bandied about a lot on these forums, with an unnecessarily negative connotation associated with it. Yes, I am fully entitled to share my opinions, even if they happen not to be of the 100% praise category. So yes, I appreciate you acknowledging my entitlement, even if you mistakenly think there's a problem with it.

 

Further if I was raising concerns 3 - 4 months from now, that would be way too late. That's when the game is set to be released, and at that point those concerns would be release day realities. Far, far better to raise one's concerns early, in my humble opinion. The other thing that this forum is going to have to deal with, is that the world is filled with cynical people. I'm one of them, and in my personal life I have turned this into an advantage, so I don't see it necessarily as a flaw. It's the folks who "assume it's all under control" that I have a hard time understanding. When it's something that I care about, as I care deeply about this game, that's not good enough for me.

 

And further, why should I assume it's all under control? Why should I assume that Obsidian will have things all wrapped up in 4 months? They might, but frankly, any voice other than their's on this topic means little to me. For my way of thinking, for the way my brain works, there is legitimate reason for concern only 4 months away from release. And further, they opted to release the beta in a barely playable state. This is a discernible behavior that I am reacting to, and it indicates that they might they do so with the final release too. I don't want that. Why should I be dismissive of that?

 

At the end of the day, I want only what the rest of you want. I want PoE to be the rousing success that many of us have waited 15 years for, and have overly bloated expectations of. I guess I just happen to express myself differently than many of you. I expect to be held accountable for my actions in my real life, and I don't have a problem holding others accountable.

 

So be prepared for some honesty from me in the weeks/months to come!

 

What bothers me with your post is that it's currently just blind doubts and nagging with no real direction or takeaways.  It's not as constructive as you seem to think.  In an action movie, it'd be the post that the naggy useless girlfriend makes before needing to get bailed out.  I don't mean that as a personal attack, I mean it as a challenge to make something useful out of this thread.  You haven't even mentioned what gamebreaking bugs you found; hopefully you've at least put them in the bugs forum.  This leaves no direction for what developers should do to get you to a point where you leave meaningful feedback. The only thing it accomplishes is cutting off their balls with some nagging doubts.

 

Obsidian's 4 month timeline is limited by their budget.  Whatever state it's in at the time is what you're going to get.  You can be sure they're going to do everything they can to meet their Kickstarter promises on the budget they have available -- it's a business obligation for them at this point.  The classes and combat are grey areas as far as deliverables go since it's so subjective to design calls and player taste. They're asking for feedback on the subjective stuff, not the deliverables they've promised to you.

 

So let's dig into specifics as far as the content is actually present in the beta.  This is the needed feedback to steer PoE towards a product you want to play in 4 months.  What game breaking bugs have stopped you from playing?  Have you reported them in the requested format, hopefully flagging that it's hindering your ability to provide feedback until it's resolved?  If you really care about the game coming out right, have you persevered to play some of the classes you were interested in?  Have you made posts somewhere about what feels awesome and what needs to change?

[Marceror]

 So let's dig into specifics as far as the content is actually present in the beta.  This is the needed feedback to steer PoE towards a product you want to play in 4 months.  What game breaking bugs have stopped you from playing?  Have you reported them in the requested format, hopefully flagging that it's hindering your ability to provide feedback until it's resolved?  If you really care about the game coming out right, have you persevered to play some of the classes you were interested in?  Have you made posts somewhere about what feels awesome and what needs to change?

 

So this is certainly a fair point. I have bug reported and listed in this thread the main bug that's plaguing me (disappearing equipment). But there are others, and because my time has been very limited today I have not taken the time to list those out. Will try to spend some time this evening to do that.

[Justinian]

I think a distinction needs to be made between HUGE bugs and a HUGE NUMBER of bugs. I went into the beta fully prepared for bugs but the sheer volume on display is staggering. I've only had 2 quick playthroughs and the number of different bugs both major and minor do not suggest to me that the game is only 3-4 months away from release. There are so many that it's daunting even thinking about reporting them all.

 

Not to mention gameplay and visual issues in general.

 

My sincerest wish is for Obsidian to delay the game to at least next year.

[Grand_Commander13]

I don't think we're meant to do much reporting anyway. If they really wanted community feedback for bugs they'd use Mantis or something, not threads in a forum. Plus, it seems most of the bugs we've been finding are known already, so the beta is more for our benefit than Obsidian's.

[aratuk]

It needs latvian, too!