Dragon Age: Inquisition

[Zoraptor]

God I hate EA.

 

Who knows, maybe this is the kind of dreck, that all of the junior developers wanted the company to produce, when the good doctors were forcing them to produce quality, RPGs for the PC?

Yeah, EA forced Bioware to make KOTOR/ JE for consoles and do dlc for NWN and make NWNOC an utter disgrace and have bisexuals in Jade Empire (and tried to have Juhani as well), all before EA even bought them.

 

If there's one accusation that is outright ludicrous it's that EA forced any of that stuff on Bioware. Greg and Ray were perfectly able to do all the usual cliché bad stuff perfectly fine with not a whit of input from EA. There never were the Good Doctors, bravely fighting for Incline against Decline. That's outright myth. Personally, I consider the NWN-KOTOR-JE era to be by far Bioware's worst, and that was pure Good Doctors.

 

Or maybe EA are just so evil they travel back in time to retroactively afflict companies with teh suck?

[licketysplit]

Yeah the good doctors are the reason BioWare ended up like it did. They defended all the retarded changes to Mass effect and Dragon A

 

 

God I hate EA.

 

Who knows, maybe this is the kind of dreck, that all of the junior developers wanted the company to produce, when the good doctors were forcing them to produce quality, RPGs for the PC?

Yeah, EA forced Bioware to make KOTOR/ JE for consoles and do dlc for NWN and make NWNOC an utter disgrace and have bisexuals in Jade Empire (and tried to have Juhani as well), all before EA even bought them.

 

If there's one accusation that is outright ludicrous it's that EA forced any of that stuff on Bioware. Greg and Ray were perfectly able to do all the usual cliché bad stuff perfectly fine with not a whit of input from EA. There never were the Good Doctors, bravely fighting for Incline against Decline. That's outright myth. Personally, I consider the NWN-KOTOR-JE era to be by far Bioware's worst, and that was pure Good Doctors.

 

Or maybe EA are just so evil they travel back in time to retroactively afflict companies with teh suck?

 

 

All true. The good doctors were supposedly the reason DA2 got rushed as well. It's EA granting the team boatloads of time now. I still think EA is a steaming pile though.

[Volourn]

"Personally, I consider the NWN-KOTOR-JE era to be by far Bioware's worst, and that was pure Good Doctors."

 

NWN and JE are two of BIo's best games. Better than that trash known as BG1.

\

\The Docs are awesome. Plain and simple. They are the reasons why some of the best RPgs ever beenc reated. Those being BG2, NWN, JE,  DA series, and ME1, and ME2.

 

.\

"The good doctors were supposedly the reason DA2 got rushed as well."

 

No. That was EA. the Docs were EA sio even if the Docs were the ones who said rush it (which i doubt) that would still be EA. the moment EA purchased BIO  EA is BIO.

 

 

"have bisexuals in Jade Empire"

 

Bisexuals are a dsigarce and evil/ WUT!?!

 

 

NWN OC is better than most RPG drek including the overrated  BG1 or ME3.

 

\

DOCS > ALL

[Zoraptor]

It's NWNOC that is a dsigarce and evil, and that's pure FACT! r00fles!

 

Personally I couldn't care less about sexual orientation in games or real life, but it is frequently cited as a sign of Bioware's decline, along with increased emphasis on romances in general. Don't really care about romances of any type, except in that they're usually poorly executed.

[Volourn]

"It's NWNOC that is a dsigarce and evil, and that's pure FACT! r00fles!"

 

No.

[Nepenthe]

It's NWNOC that is a dsigarce and evil, and that's pure FACT! r00fles!

 

Personally I couldn't care less about sexual orientation in games or real life, but it is frequently cited as a sign of Bioware's decline, along with increased emphasis on romances in general. Don't really care about romances of any type, except in that they're usually poorly executed.

Using increased emphasis on romances as a sign if their "decline" is a but curcukar, IMO, since that emphasis is placed there mostly by media/snarky gamers. For example, I don't think a romance has been morecore to a Bioware story than Bastila was in Kotor...

 

Me2 has a wrong type of emphasis on romance in the npc stories due to locking out character interaction and progression outside romances, but it's something they did pick up on and fix for me3.

Edited July 6, 2014 by Nepenthe

[Prince of Wales]

 

It's NWNOC that is a dsigarce and evil, and that's pure FACT! r00fles!

 

Personally I couldn't care less about sexual orientation in games or real life, but it is frequently cited as a sign of Bioware's decline, along with increased emphasis on romances in general. Don't really care about romances of any type, except in that they're usually poorly executed.

Using increased emphasis on romances as a sign if their "decline" is a but curcukar, IMO, since that emphasis is placed there mostly by media/snarky gamers. For example, I don't think a romance has been morecore to a Bioware story than Bastila was in Kotor...

 

Me2 has a wrong type of emphasis on romance in the npc stories due to locking out character interaction and progression outside romances, but it's something they did pick up on and fix for me3.

 

Truly, the whole "BioWare focuses too much on romances" is more than a bit of hyperbole. Romances are still a tiny, optional part of every game, and arguably their presence isn't any larger than it used to. Hell, some people who work at BioWare have expressed frustration that their fans won't shut up about it and bring it up in every situation, instead of, you know, focusing on other parts of the game.

 

There is much legitimate criticism to throw at BioWare. Their romances being cliche, cheesy and fan service is one of them. Their romances being the focus of the game, not so much.

Edited July 6, 2014 by Prince of Wales

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

"No."

 

No.

[Nepenthe]

Also, circular is apparently ****ing hard to write on a tablet.

[BruceVC]

 

 

It's NWNOC that is a dsigarce and evil, and that's pure FACT! r00fles!

 

Personally I couldn't care less about sexual orientation in games or real life, but it is frequently cited as a sign of Bioware's decline, along with increased emphasis on romances in general. Don't really care about romances of any type, except in that they're usually poorly executed.

Using increased emphasis on romances as a sign if their "decline" is a but curcukar, IMO, since that emphasis is placed there mostly by media/snarky gamers. For example, I don't think a romance has been morecore to a Bioware story than Bastila was in Kotor...

 

Me2 has a wrong type of emphasis on romance in the npc stories due to locking out character interaction and progression outside romances, but it's something they did pick up on and fix for me3.

 

Truly, the whole "BioWare focuses too much on romances" is more than a bit of hyperbole. Romances are still a tiny, optional part of every game, and arguably their presence isn't any larger than it used to. Hell, some people who work at BioWare have expressed frustration that their fans won't shut up about it and bring it up in every situation, instead of, you know, focusing on other parts of the game.

 

There is much legitimate criticism to throw at BioWare. Their romances being cliche, cheesy and fan service is one of them. Their romances being the focus of the game, not so much.

 

 

Absolutely correct young grasshopper, absolutely correct

 

All this invective towards Bioware because of the perceived state of Romance and how it has derailed there games is nothing but a form of propaganda and the normal "Bioware Bashing. Most of it is unfair criticism that is used due to a dislike of BSN and how "weird the people on it are

 

"Look everyone, people on BSN are talking about how thy want to date a horse" and other exaggerations despite the fact there are hundreds of discussions on BSN and Romance forms a small part of it

[aluminiumtrioxid]

"Look everyone, people on BSN are talking about how thy want to date a horse" and other exaggerations despite the fact there are hundreds of discussions on BSN and Romance forms a small part of it

 

 

In all fairness though, if you have a small nugget of feces in your food, you will probably throw out the whole plate, no matter how small and isolated that nugget might be.

[Qistina]

The problem of Dragon Age is it don't have a strong basis story like i mentioned many times before. And not only that, they change everything about the game in later release

 

Dragon Age : Origin - epic adventure theme, focus on how you as the Warden to solve everyone problems, end with epic battle

Dragon Age 2 - a drama of a character named Hawke, focus on how Hawke maintain relationship with everyone, end with Hawke lost everything

Dragon Age : Inquisition - not released yet, but from the demo it's a kind of epic adventure and drama, focus on a character called The Inquisitor

[Amentep]

Sure we don't know how long the Warden is at Flemeth hut, but look at this

 

i. as soon as The Warden leave the hut, Loghain and his army is at Denerim, Civil War happen

ii. Ser Donall at Lothering said the Arl fell sick long before Cailan dead, before Battle of Ostagar

iii. we can assume that it is the reason why Arl Eamon cannot send his troop, he fell sick before Battle of Ostagar

Actually Duncan says Arl Eamon CAN send his troops in a weeks time. Just re-watched that bit (yeah the debate made me replay it).

 

But you are right that Donall says the Arl was sick before the King fell.

 

You could reconcile this thinking that Donall is saying that the Arl fell sick before word of Cailan's death reached Redcliff but it certainly isn't supported by what is said in the game.

 

Duncan clearly saw a healthy Arl, though, since he doesn't mention the Arl being sick in any dialogue that I found.

 

iv. Jowan can't be at Redcliffe the same day Duncan and the Warden at Redcliffe, because Duncan who bring the news to Cailan

v. The journey from the Tower to Redcliffe only take one day, so Jowan can't be poisoning the Arl the same day Duncan and the Warden is there

I don't see any support in game that Duncan and the Warden go to Redcliff. Duncan is clear in the voice-over they head south to Ostegar. Also from the way the game is made, the Warden is always picked up on the last stop. If Duncan already recruited someone from Redcliff - which he did since the Warden never met Ser Jory before Ostegar - why'd he go back to visit?

 

vi. Jowan was captured by Loghain men, meeting with Loghain, then to Redcliffe, then become a tutor, then poisoning the Arl, then the boy become abomination, all these can't be in 1 day

vii. The Arl cannot sent his troop because of the Knights is in the quest to search for the Urn, this is before Battle of Ostagar. You can confirm this with Teagan and Redcliffe Knight

viii. Teagan cannot ask for help because of Civil War, meaning Redcliffe under undead attack while Civil War happen.

ix. So how long Jowan being in the dungeon? How all the events take place and when?

The timeline with some of these events are unclear; I agree the stuff with Jowan seems hard to fit into a coherent timeline. If Jowan leaves the circle and the Future-Warden goes directly to Ostegar, then Jowan has be found by Loghain, and meet with Loghain to create the plot prior to the arrival of the Warden at Ostegar (since the Warden can meet Loghain there, Loghain has to be able to beat the Warden to Ostegar after meeting Jowawn and setting up the poisoning plot).

 

Jowan has to be accepted as a tutor, show the kid something about magic (he tells the Warden he didn't teach him much so he had to do something), then poisons the Arl (some point prior to the death of Cailan). Its a pretty packed timeline from a mage-origin perspective. Bio probably should have done things a little different (like not made Jowan your pal, but used a different character, but have you talk about the disappearance of Jowan or something).

 

Another example, in Lothering we can hear about the Right of Anulment being called, the Tower is in disarray, we hear this from Ser Bryant, but

 

i. At the Tower, Gregoir said he just send the request of the Right of Anulment few moment ago

ii. The Templar just lock up the main door to trap everyone in

iii. how come ser Bryant already know the Right of Anulment being called?

 

The dialog I saw with Gregoir didn't imply he'd just sent a request for the right of anulment. Could have missed it though. It only said he was waiting the answer to the request.

 

Let see, if you go to Redcliffe first

 

i. how long Cullen, Wynne and everyone trapped in the tower?

ii. how long before the Chantry get Gregoir message and how come Ser Bryant know first?

iii. there's a Templar outside the windmill, how come he be there while the Tower is in disarray?

 

If you go to the Tower first

 

i. how long Redcliffe being under attack?

ii. If you are a Mage, Gregoir will mention Jowan escpe, Jowan is in Redcliffe

iii.  how come the Tower don't know about Redcliffe while it's only one day journey? Surely they could suspect the escape Mage is there

I don't think how long the mage's tower is under attack is an issue, though. There are going to be certain aspects of story that aren't going to directly match up because of the nature of a game than a strict narrative. Until you talk to the boat guy you don't know of the attack (so in theory, before you "trigger" it, the rumors of problems refer to the escape of Jowan). In a similar sense, the death of King Endrin was always three weeks ago, Redcliff was always attacked by undead not long before the Warden arrives and the Dalish people bitten by werewolves are sitting on those cots until the Warden shows up; that's just an aspect of the narrative being a game.

 

Anyhow, with regard to Jowan, they do send Templars out after Jowan in the Mage origin, but without his Phylactary (destroyed in the Mage origin while the PC is there) he's just going to be a face in the crowd, assuming they ever see him *in* a crowd, since Loghain got him installed in the Arl's castle which typically isn't going to be the place you think he'd run to.

 

I can concur the timeline of events from Jowan's escape to Jowan poisoning the Arl is not clear how it could have happened (unless you start supposing things outside the frame of reference of the game - including that Jowan is lying about meeting with Loghain).

[Gromnir]

 

 

It's NWNOC that is a dsigarce and evil, and that's pure FACT! r00fles!

 

Personally I couldn't care less about sexual orientation in games or real life, but it is frequently cited as a sign of Bioware's decline, along with increased emphasis on romances in general. Don't really care about romances of any type, except in that they're usually poorly executed.

Using increased emphasis on romances as a sign if their "decline" is a but curcukar, IMO, since that emphasis is placed there mostly by media/snarky gamers. For example, I don't think a romance has been morecore to a Bioware story than Bastila was in Kotor...

 

Me2 has a wrong type of emphasis on romance in the npc stories due to locking out character interaction and progression outside romances, but it's something they did pick up on and fix for me3.

 

Truly, the whole "BioWare focuses too much on romances" is more than a bit of hyperbole. Romances are still a tiny, optional part of every game, and arguably their presence isn't any larger than it used to. Hell, some people who work at BioWare have expressed frustration that their fans won't shut up about it and bring it up in every situation, instead of, you know, focusing on other parts of the game.

 

There is much legitimate criticism to throw at BioWare. Their romances being cliche, cheesy and fan service is one of them. Their romances being the focus of the game, not so much.

 

the irony being that the biowarians created the situation they now find distasteful. as bruce has identified, the biowarians made a safe haven for fans o' the companion seximification mini-game and alternative lifestyle advocates. bio writers were frequently active participants in the the romance love fests. yeah, we can sympathize with bioware to some small degree as we watched the evolution. as we has observed previous, is not as if bg2 romances resulted in some kinda dramatic overnight change. even the inclusion o' non-traditional romances in kotor and jade empire did not result in immediate and noteworthy alterations to the board dialectic. nevertheless, with each new game bioware pushed the envelope a bit further, and the writers and developers only complained rare about fan excess.

 

so, now they wanna complain that all fans wanna do is talk romance? they coulda' stopped the crazy train if they had wished to do so, but they didn't. biowarians were laughing like pre-teens with their bare arses hanging out the windows as their silly locomotive o' love roared ever forward. complain now?

 

*snort*

 

bioware got what it wanted, but like in all the fairy-tales, it were too late when they came to realization that what they wanted weren't exact how they imagined. 

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Monte Carlo]

Yeah, it's like Frankenstein, where the monster is made from bits of stuff dredged from the deepest recesses of Dave Gaider's Freudian subconscious.

[Valmy]

 

Truly, the whole "BioWare focuses too much on romances" is more than a bit of hyperbole. Romances are still a tiny, optional part of every game, and arguably their presence isn't any larger than it used to. Hell, some people who work at BioWare have expressed frustration that their fans won't shut up about it and bring it up in every situation, instead of, you know, focusing on other parts of the game.

 

 

There is much legitimate criticism to throw at BioWare. Their romances being cliche, cheesy and fan service is one of them. Their romances being the focus of the game, not so much.

 

 

My issue is not the romances themselves in the games...of course I became disillusioned with Bioware after the Dragon Age expansion (Awakening I think it was called?) so maybe things have changed since then.  I, generally, really enjoyed them.

 

But the community really suffered because of the romances.  I just got so tired of how enraged and personally people would take every little decision Bio would make regarding the romances.  Granted even back in the BG1 days we would have insane rantings about Bioware ruthlessly conspiring to ruin somebody's life by implementing a level cap or something but it seemed to get more and more crazy with each Bioware game.

 

By Dragon Age Origins and Mass Effect 2 it was getting a little nuts.  Granted that was four years ago so maybe things are different now.

Edited July 7, 2014 by Valmy

[Prince of Wales]

My issue is not the romances themselves in the games...of course I became disillusioned with Bioware after the Dragon Age expansion (Awakening I think it was called?) so maybe things have changed since then.  I, generally, really enjoyed them.

 

But the community really suffered because of the romances.  I just got so tired of how enraged and personally people would take every little decision Bio would make regarding the romances.  Granted even back in the BG1 days we would have insane rantings about Bioware ruthlessly conspiring to ruin somebody's life by implementing a level cap or something but it seemed to get more and more crazy with each Bioware game.

 

By Dragon Age Origins and Mass Effect 2 it was getting a little nuts.  Granted that was four years ago so maybe things are different now.

Hard to tell. Funny, I haven't heard a lot of romance talk with regards to DA2 or ME3. People rarely seem to talk about those games for anything other than remember how bad they were.

Edited July 7, 2014 by Prince of Wales

[Qistina]

 

-snip-

 

I can concur the timeline of events from Jowan's escape to Jowan poisoning the Arl is not clear how it could have happened (unless you start supposing things outside the frame of reference of the game - including that Jowan is lying about meeting with Loghain).

 

 

Unlike KotOR-Star Wars universe where we have space magic that allow us to be at different planets in few seconds (warp speed), Dragon Age is problematic, we must take account the time need to travel between places, so the script must take that into consideration

 

Mage Origin have this huge problem with Jowan time line, and the solution is not simple either. It is solely depend on the writing. Other Origins can bypass this simply with "we don't know what really happen with Jowan and how he end up in Redcliffe dungeon", but Mage Origin character know who is Jowan, his escape and everything except after his ecape

 

So if you play Mage Origin, everything break up...don't make any sense

 

This same problem with Dragon Age 2 Mage Hawke, it is frustrating. Clearly the story is written not for a Mage character. If you play Mage Hawke the whole thing doesn't make sense at all. Imagine Cullen said "mages are not human, not like you and me", they don't even change this dialogue for Mage Hawke

 

Mage Hawke going into a city full of Templars, casting magic openly in public and for 4 years no templar give a damn about. And frustratingly you can cast magic infront of Templars at the dock, if you have a brawl there with waves of bandits

 

Of course when Hawke become the Champion it's justiied why Templar close their eyes, but what about the first, second year in Kirkwal? What about "mages cannot inherit nobility" thing in DA:O?

 

The game quality down to trash in Dragon Age 2

Edited July 7, 2014 by Qistina

[Volourn]

"In all fairness though, if you have a small nugget of feces in your food, you will probably throw out the whole plate, no matter how small and isolated that nugget might be."
|

\So, because of your stupid illogical post, Obsidian forums should now close down? K.

 

 

"The game quality down to trash in Dragon Age 2"

 

DA > KOTOR + BG + IWD + KOTOR2

[Amentep]

This same problem with Dragon Age 2 Mage Hawke, it is frustrating. Clearly the story is written not for a Mage character. If you play Mage Hawke the whole thing doesn't make sense at all. Imagine Cullen said "mages are not human, not like you and me", they don't even change this dialogue for Mage Hawke

 

Mage Hawke going into a city full of Templars, casting magic openly in public and for 4 years no templar give a damn about. And frustratingly you can cast magic infront of Templars at the dock, if you have a brawl there with waves of bandits

 

Of course when Hawke become the Champion it's justiied why Templar close their eyes, but what about the first, second year in Kirkwal? What about "mages cannot inherit nobility" thing in DA:O?

 

The game quality down to trash in Dragon Age 2

Yeah Mage Hawke in DAII doesn't make sense with the setting realistically (but then again neither Bethany or Anders seem to make much of an impression on the Templars of Kirkwall - Bethany even using magic as part of the party when trying to get into Kirkwall infront of the Templars!). It makes even less sense when you can actually become a blood mage...

 

I accept it as a the "gamest" part of the game allowing character creation, but it doesn't make a lot of sense, yeah. But then the only way to really have it work would be for Mage Hawk to have a separate storyline until the third year or so.

 

That said, I think the "mages cannot inherit nobility" is specific to Fereldin, and Kirkwall is in the Free Marches.

[Qistina]

 

This same problem with Dragon Age 2 Mage Hawke, it is frustrating. Clearly the story is written not for a Mage character. If you play Mage Hawke the whole thing doesn't make sense at all. Imagine Cullen said "mages are not human, not like you and me", they don't even change this dialogue for Mage Hawke

 

Mage Hawke going into a city full of Templars, casting magic openly in public and for 4 years no templar give a damn about. And frustratingly you can cast magic infront of Templars at the dock, if you have a brawl there with waves of bandits

 

Of course when Hawke become the Champion it's justiied why Templar close their eyes, but what about the first, second year in Kirkwal? What about "mages cannot inherit nobility" thing in DA:O?

 

The game quality down to trash in Dragon Age 2

Yeah Mage Hawke in DAII doesn't make sense with the setting realistically (but then again neither Bethany or Anders seem to make much of an impression on the Templars of Kirkwall - Bethany even using magic as part of the party when trying to get into Kirkwall infront of the Templars!). It makes even less sense when you can actually become a blood mage...

 

I accept it as a the "gamest" part of the game allowing character creation, but it doesn't make a lot of sense, yeah. But then the only way to really have it work would be for Mage Hawk to have a separate storyline until the third year or so.

 

That said, I think the "mages cannot inherit nobility" is specific to Fereldin, and Kirkwall is in the Free Marches.

 

 

Yes, so from both games i can say they actually have one base story for a character, in DA:O it's Human Noble, in DA2 is Warrior/Rogue Hawke, the rest they just add up here and there...they don't actually make stories for each characters

 

That is what i argue in previous post regarding "what is the story of Dragon Age?", there's no story, they just pile up everything from the dusty locker in their office...Dragon Age have no strong base story

 

Dragon Age : Origin, the origin of your character is only for few minutes of game-play, then the rest is the same with all characters....and that's what i argue about "what origin?", yur character origin? dragon origin? the origin of the age? Your character origin is only few minutes in the begining....

 

Then Dragon Age 2, story about Hawke...what is the connection with Dragon Age : ORIGIN? What? Nothing....DA2 is a complete different story have no relation at all with Dragon Age : ORIGIN

 

Now they want to make Dragon Age : Inquisition...what the hell?

 

So Dragon Age is about what? Even David Gaider cannot answer my question in BSN, he even don't want to answer, because there is no answer

 

If we look at Star Wars, if someone ask "what Star Wars is about?", we even not as the writer of that story can answer "it's about a battle between dark side and light side of the Force", or "it's about the Jedis and Dark Jedis", or "it's about someone named Anakin, he was good but then become bad, later he regret and save his son"...

 

What LotR is about? "it's about a ring belong to dark lord can control everyone and corrupted them by giving them many rings, the dark lord will rise again, a group of people finding a way to destroy the ring..."

 

What Dragon Age is about?

[Calax]

Dragon Age is the setting, not the title of the story.

 

You're in this world (THEDAS: THE Dragon Age Setting), and things happen within it during the age of Dragons. Depending on how you look at it, the entire story could be about the Mage/Templar war that was started in Kirkwall.

 

You can't compare Dragon Age to something like LotR because LotR is a story set within the land of middle earth. It's more closely related to Star Wars and the numerous stories with different themes and arcs as different writers each spin their own tale within that world

[ManifestedISO]

 

Even David Gaider cannot answer my question in BSN, he even don't want to answer, because there is no answer

 

Because there is no question. Please return there and keep asking it forever. 

[Orogun01]

 

 

Even David Gaider cannot answer my question in BSN, he even don't want to answer, because there is no answer

 

Because there is no question. Please return there and keep asking it forever. 

 

Be kind, I believe its our duty to rehabilitate those that have lurked on the BioBoards. Have you no pity? 

[Gromnir]

 

 

 

Even David Gaider cannot answer my question in BSN, he even don't want to answer, because there is no answer

 

Because there is no question. Please return there and keep asking it forever. 

 

Be kind, I believe its our duty to rehabilitate those that have lurked on the BioBoards. Have you no pity? 

 

pity? no.

 

that being said, we will observe that if gaider has ignored qistina, then we will metaphorical tip our hat to the biowarian for his unexpected good sense in this matter.

 

HA! Good Fun!