No romances confirmed

[Tale]

 

If the devs feel like they don't want to write romances, it's better they don't. Look at Alpha Protocol, they were not very good and lo and behold, Chris Avellone didn't really want them in the first place. If developers feel motivated in writing romance options, then by all means, go ahead.

In fact, Obsidian has never done a good romance. Ever. Look at NWN2, and Mask of the Betrayer. Brilliantly written Characters in Both, but the Romances were god-awful. Cringeworthy. total black marks on both titles.

 

I have to disagree. Safiya is one of the better romances in western RPGs. Because it's part of her character. It's part of her arc.

 

Maybe Viconia is better, simply because I love the juxtaposition and contradiction she provides in how she reacts all over the place. But let's go over some other popular ones. Morrigan in Dragon Age: Origins. The difference between a romance and not-romance is perhaps 3 lines of dialogue. All the interesting things in her character are completely aside from that romance, like her duality of harsh reality versus the childlike nature that still values baubles when she knows she shouldn't. The highlight of Tali in Mass Effect 2 was the interaction with Legion and learning about her people. They tried to make her something of a creepy Shepard fangirl and I think it made the character look worse. The other Mass Effect favorite was Liara and I don't think that the romance did anything of note in ME1, gave a single extra scene in ME2, and the big contribution she makes in ME3 fit well on the friendship path.

 

By comparison, I think Safiya's was much better. Her romance with the player is sort of a reflection of what she is, the Founder's love for Akachi. She's not as memorable a character overall, but her romance contributed more to her.

[Pyrrhic]

Personally I like the option of Romances, however, it does not make or break a game for me. They did ask if we wanted more stretch goals. I could see them possibly adding Romances as a stretch goal. I can only imagine how many people will give money for that. 

[Elerond]

I don't think it was ability to write high quality stuff in romance path (as they could always hire specialized writer do it if they doubt themselves) which lead their decision but how they would implement influence system that is able to make progression of romance feel natural and don't have gimmicky mechanics that make characters fall love you even though your interaction with that character don't give any previous indication for such thing (especially when they try to get rid of such gimmicks in other aspects of the game).

[Stun]

I have to disagree. Safiya is one of the better romances in western RPGs. Because it's part of her character. It's part of her arc.

 

Maybe Viconia is better, simply because I love the juxtaposition and contradiction she provides in how she reacts all over the place. But let's go over some other popular ones. Morrigan in Dragon Age: Origins. The difference between a romance and not-romance is perhaps 3 lines of dialogue. All the interesting things in her character are completely aside from that romance, like her duality of harsh reality versus the childlike nature that still values baubles when she knows she shouldn't. The highlight of Tali in Mass Effect 2 was the interaction with Legion and learning about her people. They tried to make her something of a creepy Shepard fangirl and I think it made the character look worse. The other Mass Effect favorite was Liara and I don't think that the romance did anything of note in ME1, gave a single extra scene in ME2, and the big contribution she makes in ME3 fit well on the friendship path.

 

By comparison, I think Safiya's was much better. She's not as memorable a character overall, but her romance contributed more to her.

As well written and masterfully weaved into the storyline as Safiya's character is, her romance (or at least her romance dialogue) suffers from the exact same fatal flaw that Elanee's does in the OC: the obligatory, Ham-fisted, mood-killing dialogue option at the end where the NPC says they love you and then force you to confirm or deny that you feel the same way.

 

When the day comes that Video game writers learn to employ subtlety, I will be the first to support Romances in video games. But until then....

Edited February 11, 2014 by Stun

[Messier-31]

Do not care

 

But some flirting here and there could be nice.

[Meshugger]

You guys might realize that Sawyer mentioned only romances and absolutely nothing about depraved, loveless sexual encounters

[JFSOCC]

 

The fervor of the anti-romance crowd is what makes this decision so annoying. I don't care about romances nearly as much as I hate seeing a roomful of three-year old twits get their way.

You said it.  I personally don't really care that much.  All evidence says we are playing a "blank slate" already (a character concept I am tired of seeing in story based RPG's) so forcing romance in there may not even work well cause face it... our character will have no real personality.  There is not even an indicator that we will get to make background choices that will have minor effects on the game such as a Hill Dwarf getting treated differently from a Forest Elf etc etc.  So yeah it doesn't bother me.

 

However.

 

If you asked me to vote in a simple poll no BS no nonsense, "Should romance options be included for the main character in Pillars of Eternity?"  Yes or No,  I would vote yes.  While I don't particularly care and may or may not try such a thing in game many many players DO care.  Alfiriel is also dead on correct.  BG2 is the king of the IE games and the benchmark most backers will be looking at.  BG2 had romances didn't it?  In fact BG2 was the game that started the whole RPG's should probably include a romance option thing on PC.  Obsidian baked it's own cake on this one I personally think they should perhaps have a slice. 

 

Meanwhile the idea that removing romance relationships from even being an option for the main character does not compute to "better and more in depth character relationships".  Again, I am sorry many romance haters seem to confuse one sided NPC's and bad writing with "romance is the problem" but no.... the problem is bad writing and bad NPC's.  Taking one possible relationship type totally out of the game for the main character actually eliminates an entire "character interaction" option from the game.  That is the opposite of "more in depth relationships with characters."

 

Basically this. I think romances could be done well, even if they haven't always been done well. I don't want to force romances in, and I can live without them just fine. But I imagine if you spend a lot of time with someone, you're bound to develop feelings for that person. That psychology means that romances would make sense in a group that spends an awful lot of time in very close proximity without much privacy

 

Not quite. Were there romances in the Icewind Dale series? No. I'd say then the idea is only half baked. Better no romance than a weakly implemented story line. Spend the resources on the remainder of the plot.

I hope the icewind dale games aren't a bigger influence than the baldur's gate games.

 

We do gods work. For it shall be written: Drive forth the promancer and cast him from thy garden, for he is deviant and without virtue. Suffer not his kind to live among thee, for verily he shall bring forth wedding mods. And thou shalt know this villain by his cry, the cry of squee.

And you are usually so well balanced. I thought you were better than to mock those of different opinions.

 

 

Let's play detective.

 

Avellone, very early in the development cycle, told us he didn't like romances. If he was forced to do one it would be a 'hate-mance.'

Sawyer wouldn't be drawn on it.

This is all true. And they are making the game *they* want to make

Romance was never part of the initial pitch.

neither are a lot of things that are going to make it into the game.

 

 

 

This is bad news and concerns me immensely. I am one of those that believes Romance adds to the realism and immersive aspect of your journey in an RPG. Especially around your interaction with party members. Also I don't understand why Obsidian wouldn't want to include something in PoE that the majority of fans want

 

Even if 100% of fans wanted them, I don't believe we have the time and other resources to implement them well.  I am not inherently opposed to romances, but I don't want to spend time implementing something I'm not confident we will be able to execute at a high level of quality.

 

I respect that you're making your own game, pursuing your own artistic vision. But if 100% of your fans wanted something like romances in and you wouldn't even consider it I'd consider you to be very foolish. One that note, please don't fall into the trap of making players play your story the way you want them to play rather than the one they'd like to craft for themselves. Player agency is important.

 

That said I'm not too worried. like others have said, I'm sure that something with such a great demand will find itself modded in, one way or another.

[rjshae]

Do not care

 

But some flirting here and there could be nice.

 

True. A decent measure might be a character interaction that made me think "I kind of wish romance had been included", but leave it at that.

[Mannock]

 

I have to disagree. Safiya is one of the better romances in western RPGs. Because it's part of her character. It's part of her arc.

 

 

 

By comparison, I think Safiya's was much better. She's not as memorable a character overall, but her romance contributed more to her.

 

 

I think that is a good point. Obsidian has an uneven trackrecord regarding romances, but some of them are pretty decent.

 

It amuses me however that a lot of people reference BioWare romances and how poor they are. That's fine and all, but what has it got to do with Obsidian?

 

Personally, I believe love is a very strong motive to use in a story and given how often it frequents books, music, poetry, movies, paintings, etc, it would be very lacking for the gaming industry to purposely avoid it. The gaming industry is generally immature in this regard. I'm sure things will change as time passes.

 

Right now though, given the lack of interest by Obsidian doing romances, I think we might be better off without it. But I hope it will turn up in future games.

[Seatroll69]

Thats a little sad they dissmiss romances like that I'm sure Obsidian would have done it in a lot better and more tasteful way than Bioware usually does.

 

You guys might realize that Sawyer mentioned only romances and absolutely nothing about depraved, loveless sexual encounters

 

Knowing Obsidian...

[Death Machine Miyagi]

Do not care

 

But some flirting here and there could be nice.

 

Setting aside a whole romantic plot, I'd still prefer they don't force us to play as someone who is practically asexual, as many RPGs do. It irritated me that I could wander the wastes in Fallout: New Vegas as a character of the appropriate sexual orientation to one of my companions (a homosexual woman wandering with Veronica or a homosexual man wandering with Arcade, for example) and the subject was never even addressed. It could kinda sorta be brought up with Arcade when talking him into joining you as a gay man, but then the subject dropped as if it never happened.

 

It doesn't need to go anywhere. They could shoot you down, you could shoot them down or it could just stay at the level of mild flirting. Two good looking single people of compatible orientation wandering the wastes for months and months with only each other for companionship without the subject of sexual tension even being discussed or hinted at, however, seems a bit of a stretch to me. 

 

EDIT: I forgot about Cass, who would actually be a good model for this approach. You can hit on her with the 'Lady Killer' perk...at which points she shoots you down point blank, 'cause she knows your type. Of course, if victory has been won for the NCR, she'll get drunk and try to hop in the sack with you (unsuccessfully) in one of the game endings. The issue is addressed and then set aside instead of just flat-out ignored. 

Edited February 11, 2014 by Death Machine Miyagi

[Tale]

You guys might realize that Sawyer mentioned only romances and absolutely nothing about depraved, loveless sexual encounters

I wonder if I can hate-mance one of the companions.

[Lephys]

"They interject into your conversations, they argue with you, they argue with each other."

Sounds like a relationship to me.

 

And... as to the "let the butthurt flow" (Emperor Palpatine meme pick)... no, they already said no romances. So butthurt's out of the question.

[JFSOCC]

having read the rest of the interview. I have to say, I am EXTREMELY disappointed that there aren't going to be modding tools. Strong modding tools are what keeps a game and it's community alive LONG after other games would have been forgotten. It's why people are STILL making mods for morrowind.

 

I think it's a collosal mistake not to release a tool for modding and editing as much as possible. I think saying that you'll release tools (maybe) for "Table-based stuff should be easily editable because it's in a text file" that's pretty much providing lip-service to editors. I think you are making a gigantic mistake by not releasing a comprehensive modding tool. Gigantic.

 

really screw the romance news, this is what should be the controversy.

 

Imagine how much you are going to lose out on! countless mods, encouraging new modders (potential future employees), a cap on creativity, community engagement, fan driven content.

I think it's just terribly stupid.

Edited February 11, 2014 by JFSOCC

[Hiro Protagonist II]

BG1 had no romances and didn't suffer for it. Considering PoE is a low level game perhaps similar to BG1, I don't see PoE suffering with no romances.

 

 

Personally I like the option of Romances, however, it does not make or break a game for me. They did ask if we wanted more stretch goals. I could see them possibly adding Romances as a stretch goal. I can only imagine how many people will give money for that. 

 

I can imagine people lowering their pledges to avoid that stretch goal.

[Karkarov]

@Kjaamor I don't think a romance written by someone who cringes at the idea of writing one would be all that much fun. Except in an ohgodmybrainpleaseno kind of way.

Fair statement Junta, but I also fear for the overall quality of writing if Sawyer thinks not one writer on their staff is capable of writing a decent romance.  Which is basically what he just said in blunt terms.

[Reever]

How utterly delicious, where is your god and your Waifu now promancers? Hahahahahaha.

 

Let the modding begin!! :D

 

I do like romances in my RPGs, but I don't think I'll mind them not being in th game too much...

[Death Machine Miyagi]

BG1 had no romances and didn't suffer for it. Considering PoE is a low level game perhaps similar to BG1, I don't see PoE suffering with no romances.

 

BG1 also featured a large cast of NPCs who reacted to virtually nothing and were largely devoid of personality. BG1 is a bad role-model for NPC creation.

[Hiro Protagonist II]

 

Fair statement Junta, but I also fear for the overall quality of writing if Sawyer thinks not one writer on their staff is capable of writing a decent romance.  Which is basically what he just said in blunt terms.

 

 

 

No, that's not what he said. But nice strawman argument.

[Karkarov]

No, that's not what he said. But nice strawman argument.

No that's exactly what he said.

 

If he wanted to say "we could write a good character romance if we wanted to but we decided the funding would be better spent elsewhere and it did not fit the vision we had for any of our npc's" then he should have said that.  Not this, and I quote "... but I don't want to spend time implementing something I'm not confident we will be able to execute at a high level of quality."

[Pyrrhic]

Well if you don't like writing Romances, hire someone who is good at it. Just because you aren't good at something doesn't mean you can't involve others in the process. 

[Sir Chaox]

Maybe romances will be in PE2. For now, they have enough on their plate with establishing this brand new IP.

[Hiro Protagonist II]

 

No that's exactly what he said.

 

 

If he wanted to say "we could write a good character romance if we wanted to but we decided the funding would be better spent elsewhere and it did not fit the vision we had for any of our npc's" then he should have said that.  Not this, and I quote "... but I don't want to spend time implementing something I'm not confident we will be able to execute at a high level of quality."

 

 

No it's not. You're only quoting part of it and then twisting his words around. Try again.

 

Also, it's a bit of an insult to suggest Obsidian doesn't have the writing talent to write romances.

Edited February 11, 2014 by Hiro Protagonist II

[Stun]

having read the rest of the interview. I have to say, I am EXTREMELY disappointed that there aren't going to be modding tools. Strong modding tools are what keeps a game and it's community alive LONG after other games would have been forgotten. It's why people are STILL making mods for morrowind.

 

I think it's a collosal mistake not to release a tool for modding and editing as much as possible. I think saying that you'll release tools (maybe) for "Table-based stuff should be easily editable because it's in a text file" that's pretty much providing lip-service to editors. I think you are making a gigantic mistake by not releasing a comprehensive modding tool. Gigantic.

 

really screw the romance news, this is what should be the controversy.

 

Imagine how much you are going to lose out on! countless mods, encouraging new modders (potential future employees), a cap on creativity, community engagement, fan driven content.

I think it's just terribly stupid.

It ain't that bad. There were no modding tools released for the IE games either. Didn't stop modders from successfully modding the bejeebers out of ALL of them anyway. Edited February 11, 2014 by Stun

[Tale]

 

@Kjaamor I don't think a romance written by someone who cringes at the idea of writing one would be all that much fun. Except in an ohgodmybrainpleaseno kind of way.

Fair statement Junta, but I also fear for the overall quality of writing if Sawyer thinks not one writer on their staff is capable of writing a decent romance.  Which is basically what he just said in blunt terms.

 

That seems like quite a jump. Many games have poor romance writing and otherwise fantastic writing. Why would you think that this, of all times, is the instance where those skills are going to be intrinsically connecte?