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Hey guys, this is my first post on here. I really don't care about this debate, but man. Some of these posts are pure win. Both sides, gave some likes. Figure you guys deserve to know I was laughing pretty hard at some of the posts on here.(Especially a guy who posted a smug pic of Josh back on pg8 or so) Some were pro-romance some not, wiped away tears a few times there. Thanks for the 40mins of entertainment catching up on the thread.

 

On a more serious note, trust the developers guys. As previous posters said, Romance mods are surely inbound once the game is released anyway.

 

Thank you, Sir, for actually getting it.

 

I don't know where this generation of precious snowflakes comes from. Maybe they need their own circle-jerk forum where they can all agree on everything and compare their unicorn-themed sleepwear.

 

 

Yeah yeah Monte, whatever. You like gloating when you are proven correct in a debate, I suppose it happens so seldom we should allow you your 5 minutes in the limelight :biggrin:


"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

 

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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Indeed. Monte is having a field day! :)


*** "The words of someone who feels ever more the ent among saplings when playing CRPGs" ***

 

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Good.

 

The last thing this game needs is to be degenerated into Biowarian schlock fap-bait.

Personally though, I thought there was stuff in that Eurogamer interview that was more interesting, and more worthy of debate than the pronouncement of "No-Romances-Sorry".

Truth. I was particularly excited by Sawyer's promise of exploring themes of institutionalized racism, class struggle and religion.

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Good.

 

Truth. I was particularly excited by Sawyer's promise of exploring themes of institutionalized racism, class struggle and religion.

 

This is my next target. I want to play a game, not experience an interactive version of Das Kapital.


sonsofgygax.JPG

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Indeed. Monte is having a field day! :)

 

Yes. I see no point in being magnanimous in victory.

 

Is Anita Sarkeesian on the books at Obz yet?

 

24761077.jpg

Edited by Monte Carlo
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Regarding the Bioware hate bit: while I have said many bad things about DA: O (because there are many bad things), I did still enjoy it overall enough to play it through twice.  To think they have learnt and improved from DA2 though is incorrect I believe: they knew when they released it that it had been rushed, they are a big company with their own resources there was no need to rush it and yet they did so, and they used day 1 dlc to make people preorder it before they could see the actual game in order to get your money before you realised the actual state of the game.  The even promised people that the console version would have auto-attack in it and then, the night before release, went "Oh sorry turns out we forgot to put it in, and we ain't gonna bother patching it in either, tough ****."  I wouldn't trust someone who did something like that.  Now they are saying that they have 'learnt from their mistakes' with DA2, but until the next game comes out we won't know that they have will we?  

 

People, including me, remember the old days and people still hope they might be good again, despite being burnt by them repeatedly.  Bioware, under EA, has a huge PR machine and marketing, and they will use that to keep people thinking that maybe this time it will be different.  It's like an abusive spouse, Bioware tells you that this time it will be different, this time it will be like the good old days, they've changed, and then they punch you in the mouth.  Bioware is not going to change until they get punched where it really hurts, in the pocket.  But they won't, because people can't let go of the false hope that 'this time it will be different'.

 

I'm glad I got out of dealing with Bioware games when I did.  Bioware as we knew them is dead, I like to remember them as they were in the good times, not as the undead abomination that now masquerades as them.

Edited by FlintlockJazz
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"That rabbit's dynamite!" - King Arthur, Monty Python and the Quest for the Holy Grail

"Space is big, really big." - Douglas Adams

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This is my next target. I want to play a game, not experience an interactive version of Das Kapital.

Play as dwarven scholar Korl Morx and his Godlike companion Friedrich Angels as they travel across the world distributing pamphlets on Commodities, Wage Labour, Surplus Value and so on all the while avoiding the curséd Aedyr and Vailian bourgeoisies.

 

Hardcore mode has gameover result in National Security storming your house and arresting you as a potential communist insurgent.

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Okay, so my last post was a bit more passive-agressive than I would like to admit, but Bruce laughed it off, thanks for that.

 

I'm going to list a few things that make creating a good romance problematic.

 

Turning romance into a system = next to impossible

 

Sentences about a relationship from a (straight) man's perspective.

 

She was in a bad mood today, and wouldn't tell me why. I gave up and sat down to play Pillars of Eternity, my go-to game in such situations. Maybe tomorrow she'll open up.

 

We went for a walk in the mountains, we both enjoyed it a lot. But on the road back, she got all nostalgic about her childhood, and started complaining about that she "misses the fun". Should I take that as a warning that "our relationship is not very fun" for her? Or can I dismiss it as simply choking on nostalgia?

 

She asked me a lot of question about one of my female co-workers. She's clearly very jelly of her, but I managed to avoid telling her so, because today's sex night.

 

There are so many nuances to a relationship. Communication in a relationship is really complex, there are entire libraries of psychology books on the subject (my favorites are by a pastor, Gary Chapman: Five Love Languages)

 

- Misunderstandings

- Growing as a person via the partner's presence

- Accepting the other's history and background, including, but not limited to, family and education

- ...

 

Yet all we get is "compliment, do a few things he/she likes -> bed -> happily ever after".

 

Example 1: Gifting in DA:O

 

I'm a bit late with mentioning this, but yes, the gift system in DA:O was an affront to people who love. It was as if you were buying yourself, uh, an "escort service". A paid lover status. I found it even more appalling that Morrigan, one of the cooler characters from the game, would go all "shiny!" like a stereotypical dumb blonde. Quote from the DA:O wiki:

 

Quite simply, Morrigan likes shiny stuff - mostly jewelry.

 

Really? The daughter of one of the ancient and undying powers of the world, also a powerhouse herself, goes squee over a silver chain? I would suppose she can conjure up such stuff with mere thoughts...

 

This a very good example how easily "systemifying" a relationship can fail. I'm sure that the gifting idea looked good on paper to the designers, but it was doomed to fail. Even with gifting being one of the Five Love Languages I mentioned above.

 

Example 2: Influence gain/loss versus important values

 

So let's say that in a game, I do the following while my love-to-be companion watches, and get the following influence points:

 

+1 Save kitten

+2 Uncover assassination plot

+2 Defeat brigands

+1 Discover lost caravan

+3 Help settle a quarrel between two rival families

-7 Kill a child who was used as a pawn by a criminal mastermind

 

At this point, the game tells me that my influence with her is plus 2. I'm okay, right? No. Any real woman with a real heart would hate me with a passion for killing the child, and wouldn't care about saving the kittens. The system fails, because it's just a system.

 

My conviction is that if you want to do romances, you need a full narrative framework with almost absolute writing freedom like Telltale Games's episodic adventures. Anything that's based on numbers will end up cringeworthy.

 

Example 3: Growing apart and breaking up

 

Have you ever had a romance in a game where after a while, your partner starts to lose interest in you? And after a while he/she begins to look... away? He/she becomes disillusioned with you, realizes that how far you two actually are when it comes to values, and so and so on? These things are very real and happen all the time. In my real relationships I like to say "a relationship starts after the first break-up". What I mean is that reaching new levels of physical intimacy might be a high point (see the kiss with Annah), but it's definitely not the end. It takes a lot of effort, a lot of learning, a lot of apologizing, a lot of everything to make a relationship work in the long run, yet in every game I played, after you bedded someone, he/she was chained to you no matter what. Oh, if it were as simple as that!

 

... I could go on and on, but this is already far too long...

 

Edit: A game with this budget, also the first of its kind, doesn't have what's needed to have proper romances. Romances that are worthy of Obsidian's name and seal of approval. I hope that Eternity will turn into a franchise, and the sequels, where things will be less hectic since the engine, systems and the production pipeline are already in place, will be able to feature romances that are relatable, not cringeworthy.

Edited by Endrosz
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The Seven Blunders/Roots of Violence: Wealth without work. Pleasure without conscience. Knowledge without character. Commerce without morality. Science without humanity. Worship without sacrifice. Politics without principle. (Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi)

 

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Have you ever had a romance in a game where after a while, your partner starts to lose interest in you? And after a while he/she begins to look... away? He/she becomes disillusioned with you, realizes that how far you two actually are when it comes to values, and so and so on? These things are very real and happen all the time.

Indeed. And, of course, implementing such a thing in a believable way in a video game would require a whole new level of time and other resources. I can't see it ever being done in any Kickstarter game. Well, Unless the game itself is an actual Dating Sim, where the Romance is literally the main plot.

 

^And this just adds weight to Josh Sawyer's explanation on this thread that the reason there will be no romances in PoE is because Obsidian neither has the time nor the resources to do them well.

 

Ironically though, in the worst Romance in Obsidian History (Elanee's, NWN2) they tried a variation of what you're describing. They didn't follow through with it though, and it ended up not mattering. In NWN 2, if you leave Elanee at Duncan's Inn and don't take her along on your Act I adventures, or if you pay more attention to the other Female NPCs, she will eventually give you a tongue lashing, accusing you of "forgetting" about her. But again, it goes nowhere, and you don't lose any influence with her, so.... wasted opportunity.

Edited by Stun

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I suppose they didn't want a repeatal of "Handmaiden wont talk to me anymore... RAGE!!!"


^

 

 

I agree that that is such a stupid idiotic pathetic garbage hateful retarded scumbag evil satanic nazi like term ever created. At least top 5.

 

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This is bad news. The only reason i think why there's no romance in PoE is most probably they are not up to the task and it takes up resources as resources cost money. That few millions from KS.. although it was mentioned every penny will be spent on the game, but who knows?

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I have to admit, this isn't quite the ****storm I was hoping for.

 

You promancers need to grow a spine. Make your rage a weapon, and unleash it upon the forums.

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I have to admit, this isn't quite the ****storm I was hoping for.

 

You promancers need to grow a spine. Make your rage a weapon, and unleash it upon the forums.

Honestly, I am surprised that there isn't more of a backlash, I expected there to be more rage from either side once they announced whether there was going to be romances or not. I'm actually quite impressed with the community's response overall so far.


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"Space is big, really big." - Douglas Adams

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That few millions from KS.. although it was mentioned every penny will be spent on the game, but who knows?

 

Hooray for conspiracies!  :no:

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Good.

 

The last thing this game needs is to be degenerated into Biowarian schlock fap-bait.

Personally though, I thought there was stuff in that Eurogamer interview that was more interesting, and more worthy of debate than the pronouncement of "No-Romances-Sorry".

Truth. I was particularly excited by Sawyer's promise of exploring themes of institutionalized racism, class struggle and religion.

 

That's because we already knew the direction of the game in terms of those "mature" items, as they were covered (though not thoroughly) in previous updates and interviews. The one factual item that Obsidian had remained silent on besides the earliest "maybe if it fits" official comment was the companion interaction vis-a-vis "romances." 

 

We now return you to your regularly scheduled "I came late to the party and didn't back the KS but will make an opinion-vomit anyway" threads along with mechanics arguments and "Why isn't this D&D I thought I backed a D&D game this sucks" QQ comments, so on. 

 

Mods, people. I'm most interested in knowing just how the modding capabilities will be documented--maybe a gung-ho player will be able to create an actual 3rd party tool for modders much like WeiDU.

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The KS Collector's Edition does not include the Collector's Book.

Which game hook brought you to Project Eternity and interests you the most?

PE will not have co-op/multiplayer, console, or tablet support (sources): [0] [1] [2] [3] [4] [5] [6] [7]

Write your own romance mods because there won't be any in PE.

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"Most o' you wanderers are but a quarter moon away from lunacy at the best o' times." -Alvanhendar (Baldur's Gate 1)

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That few millions from KS.. although it was mentioned every penny will be spent on the game, but who knows?

 

The sizeable romance budget they started with went straight into hookers and blow. Sorry, guys!

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I have to admit, this isn't quite the ****storm I was hoping for.

 

You promancers need to grow a spine. Make your rage a weapon, and unleash it upon the forums.

 

The main reason IMO for the lack of the expected vituperative backlash is most of  the promancers I know aren't active on these forums as much, they are on other forums who appreciate the importance and necessity of Romance in an RPG.....like BSN  :wub:  


"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

 

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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There's nothing quite like a promancer rant: expressing their deep, passionate desire for love through mindless, unendurable rage... :p j/k


"It has just been discovered that research causes cancer in rats."

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That few millions from KS.. although it was mentioned every penny will be spent on the game, but who knows?

 

The sizeable romance budget they started with went straight into hookers and blow. Sorry, guys!

 

Research is an important first step.
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"Show me a man who "plays fair" and I'll show you a very talented cheater."

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That few millions from KS.. although it was mentioned every penny will be spent on the game, but who knows?

 

The sizeable romance budget they started with went straight into hookers and blow. Sorry, guys!

 

Research is an important first step.

 

 

:lol:


"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

 

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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That few millions from KS.. although it was mentioned every penny will be spent on the game, but who knows?

 

The sizeable romance budget they started with went straight into hookers and blow. Sorry, guys!

 

Research is an important first step.

 

We'd better donate some more so that they can do some more research then!

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"Space is big, really big." - Douglas Adams

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