Playing other Kickstarter funded games makes me nervous

[Pandamaniac]

So my fears were true. I hope Act 2 for Broken Age is a bit more worthwhile. Act 1 is good, and I do not regret backing it at all, but I was hoping for more. Maybe Act 2 will be amazing and much lengthier with better puzzles. We'll see! I'm definitely interested in what happens next, storywise.

I thought that Broken Age was a good game for what the goal was, and the fact we are all upset about how short it was is evidence that the rest of the game was relatively sound. I would expect that the second part will be more complex than the beginning (you can see the puzzles increasing in complexity as the game goes on), and the cost of that type of game is significantly higher than PE will be on a per game-play hour basis.

 

WL2 looks like it is in a good place and getting better (the main complaints are what they expected and are working on) and the amount of content in that game is near the ball-park that PE needs to be in.... while PE had another million. Combined with the updates, the history of Obsidian and the fact this is their baby I fully expect the game to be great.

[Darkpriest]

My only gripe with the current version of WL2 beta is that I can't play for a 5min without some random crash to desktop... I DO hope that it all will be sorted out by the time of its release. I've played earlier version and it was also crashing, but mostly due to (what i suspect to be) memory leaks in large areas (Highpool and Rail Nomads). Now it feels just unplayable for me when crashing every 5min.

[Lioness]

Skepticism is the name of the game and not just with Kickstarter. Look at recent games that are definitely not kickstarted: TW Rome 2, Sim City (5), Diablo 3 and X-Rebirth. Bugs we have come to expect, sadly, but horrendous design decisions are unfixable.

Kickstarter has 2 advantages on that front 1/ No suits caring more about nickel and diming the player than about the gameplay. 2/ Some transparency, and influence from the future gamers.

 

Personally I have enjoyed Shadowrun, Wasteland 2, Blackguards, Divinity Original Sin, and clocked more hours on them then any recently releases AAA game, with the exception of XCOM. And even XCOM had weird dumbed down design decisions (can I have a second Skyranger plix ?)

 

Colour me contrarian, but the kickstarter game I played and disliked the most is FTL, too much RNG in it.

 

 

So now we come to Pillars of Eternity, which also made what seems at first to be a pretty large sum of money. The intention is to create two huge cities, an enormous multi-level dungeon, lots and lots of class and races choices, and a variety of other such claims that indicate a game aiming to be set on an epic scale ala Baldur's Gate.  

 

Yet their budget isn't all that much bigger than the Broken Age budget, the first released installment of which I completed in about three and a half hours. That makes me uneasy. Am I alone on that? 

 

I am not worried or uneasy for PoE. You mention 2 cities, multi level dungeon, races, classes,... Well they are already very far in design and implementation everyone of those aspects, judging by the 70 updates... and that with almost a year to go.

[Lorfean]

I have, from the start, felt that one significant difference between most of these other Kickstarter projects and PE was the fact that Obsidian was already an established and pretty successful developer, with several releases in the genre they were kickstarting for receiving critical acclaim in recent years (KotOR2, MoTB, F:NV). In other words -- they had already shown me that they could create great RPG's, under pressure even, whereas most of the other projects were either by brand new studios (Shadowrun Returns, Banner Saga) or ones that hadn't really done anything significant in the genre they were kickstarting in the last two decades or so (Broken Age, Wasteland 2).

 

So, for me, Obsidian's Kickstarter felt like much less of a risk compared to the others I backed, which is also why I felt a lot more comfortable about spending more money on it. And everything I've seen and heard so far has only increased my confidence. They seem to be managing the project and their resources intelligently and every time they've show us in-game content I have been impressed. The same goes for Wasteland 2 actually, which has been a very pleasant surprise.

 

Of the others I backed, Broken Age has been the most difficult for me. Their documentary has been very (sometimes painfully) transparent about the struggles they've gone through -- and probably are still going through -- to deliver the game they promised and envisioned. It is obvious that they mis-managed their funds but I can't decide if they did so to an unacceptable degree. I disliked them splitting the game into two chapters, but I understand why they had to do it and believe the final product will be better for it. Having played the first chapter I agree that it is short, that the UI is lacking and that the puzzles are rather easy, but the writing and atmosphere are amazing and the game just oozes charm. I guess I'd describe it as 50 / 50 in terms of success / failure -- it's a success in terms of the creative freedom the Kickstarter campaign gave them and how they used that freedom to create something extraordinary, and it's a failure in that the hurdles that Kickstarter helped them avoid (publisher pressure and meddling, restricted freedom in terms of making the games they want to make, etc.) were just replaced by problems of their own making that could've been avoided by better management of the project.

[Hassat Hunter]

Expedition: Conquistadors is a game filled with promise that, in my opinion, blows its load about 1/3 of the way in. The first map is great, but by the end you've pretty much seen all there is to see. Not much reward to go around on the second, larger map. That said I played it not long after its release and it's been patched about a million times since then so maybe they've added in a lot of gameplay.

Really, there's not even 1/3rd of the game done on the first map. It might stop contentwise, but that's because much is preserved for map #2. So once you get there, it starts all over again.

You should try it more, really .

I have a confession to make: when I saw all the extra levels and stretch goals that were being tacked on, my response was partially excitement, but also a big helping of apprehension. I trust Obsidian is smart enough to know what a realistic goal is with the money they have, but when I see (for example) all those dungeon levels they've promised there's a big part of me that wonders whether they'll be forced to sacrifice quality for quantity to make all those levels.

Likewise.

While the mega-dungeon sounded awesome when still single-digit, when it went multi-digit, I was also starting to worry about it becoming not too big for it's own good.

And reading some of the suggestions people want for the mega-dungeon (Diablo gameplay, really? Why back a Baldur's Gate-game if you want that?) didn't really help elevate said worries.

The mega-dungeon is easily the point I am most worried about being a mistake and too much a drag on resources that could be used much better elsewhere.

I hope they prove me wrong...

[Kjaamor]

Really, there's not even 1/3rd of the game done on the first map. It might stop contentwise, but that's because much is preserved for map #2. So once you get there, it starts all over again.

You should try it more, really .

 

Looking back at the way I phrased that, I think I was a bit unclear as to my thoughts. I enjoyed playing the first map; exploring, managing my party, levelling up and combat, but towards the end of that first map I'd learned how to manage my party to full functionality, I'd maxed out all my characters' levels, and I'd worked out the best approach for combat so that barring a series of incredibly unlucky rolls I never got in trouble again.

 

Then the game gave me a second, larger map, with the same management, the same levels and the same combat. All that was left as an incentive to play was the exploration, and by the second map that had become quite lacklustre in my eyes. All the second map did was give length for length's sake.

[Mr. Magniloquent]

One thing to keep in mind about Project: Eternity, is that Obsidian never stopped making games, and has been for some time. Many of the kickstarters are from, well...kickstarter. Several others have been less active in the industry than they once were. While DoubleFine has been in business, it has Tim Schafer. He's a creative and funny guy, but management and budgeting are his classic downfalls. Obsidian arguably has a spotty history, but almost all of that can generally be attributed to external (see: Publisher) problems. While the budget constraints are severe for P:E, I don't think that will ulimately undo them. They're a world class studio with both their heart and reputation in the game building exactly what they desire. I think I can keep the faith for awhile.

[Metabot]

Well according to Obsidian, the mega dugeon is finished so that's no longer an issue now.

[Sir Chaox]

One thing to keep in mind about Project: Eternity, is that Obsidian never stopped making games, and has been for some time. Many of the kickstarters are from, well...kickstarter. Several others have been less active in the industry than they once were. While DoubleFine has been in business, it has Tim Schafer. He's a creative and funny guy, but management and budgeting are his classic downfalls. Obsidian arguably has a spotty history, but almost all of that can generally be attributed to external (see: Publisher) problems. While the budget constraints are severe for P:E, I don't think that will ulimately undo them. They're a world class studio with both their heart and reputation in the game building exactly what they desire. I think I can keep the faith for awhile.

 

This.

 

Also, I did not realize that about Schafer. That explains a lot, Lol. For some reason, that makes him more the man in my mind. 

[milczyciel]

Let's see - I'll start with pointing out those few KS games I placed my hopes (and money) in. Beginning with one I believe in most and ending with the one that was an equivalent of flipped russian roulette (5 bullets) from the start. Their order do not represent the amount of money I've spent on a specific title

1) PoE

2) Wasteland 2

3) Divinity OS

4) Tides of Numenera

5) ex aequo JA:Flashback and Satellite Reign

<sigh>

6) Wings:RE

So that's me and my dreams right there.

 

Wasteland 2 gave me a headache because "The Bard's Tale" was a rather "meh" experience, even with all that humour and Tony Jay naration... Worth mentioning is, that I beat it which isn't something I can say about many other, better reviewed games. Nevertheless, after considering all the pros and cons I trimmed down my expectations and settled for a game they actually trying to create, and not for my VanBuren / unreleased Troika postapo dreams redemption

That probably makes Divinity above Torment even weirder, but the answer is quite simple - one cannot lower his expectations for the successor of PT. Thus Larian, which I probably wouldn't back if not for the fact, that they approached KS from a different angle, makes me more certain than InXile, who's trying to pay a tribute to the holy grail of 90s cRPGs. Plus, oryginal Divinity have a place in my hearth, but our relation never became as serious as a sentiment I share for the Black Isle games.

 

Jagged Alliance and Satellite Reign were simply beneficiaries of the KS fewer and my longing for respectively: GOOD JA2 reinstatement and ANY AT ALL Syndicate Wars remake (yup, liked the second one more). I payed them accordingly less and not even actively pursuing updates, knowing from day one that I'll be happy with any decent craftsmanship that have at least a sign of that spark I saw in the concepts.

 

The last one... well let me say it's a shining testimony to how soft and weak I turned out to be. Truly I can't even make an excuse that I fell for a tricks of theirs, as I knew it won't work from the very beginning. Still, I wanted and still want to believe so much, that I reluctantly accepted the exchange: 15$ for a slightest of hopes, that I'll relieve the very first game that... well... made me all emotional back in a days when I had to sit in front of a computer with a vocabulary on my knees to get at least the bare bones of the story.

 

So after that rather lengthy intro, let me tackle the sole reason of  that thread, numero uno of my list - PoE.

Well, we all know who Obsidians are and you guys and gals already laid it out pretty well from almost every possible perspective. Personally I find them, being the most true to the Black Isle/Bioware legacy (though only because of the demise of Troika! xoxo Mr Cain!) so story-wise I'm sure I won't get anything less than good. Mechanics, as I came to realization lately, do not concern me that much, but that I already made clear somewhere else. If anything, I'd be concerned about the impact mega-dungeon can have upon the rest of the game. But as I said, that's something not for me to ponder upon. On the other hand, the overall and mystical gameplay IS something that makes me tad worried as I remember all to well, just how non-invested I was throughout nicely written and mechanically valid NVN 2 (vanilla) and both Tim and Josh mentioned that game few times (for example as an inspiration for The Stronghold IIRC). Nevertheless I keep repeating to myself that it only was their second attempt at epic cRPG as a new entity, and since that time, the last one that I didn't enjoyed so they definitely learned from it.

 

Any other KS games that I played, do not compare to the situation at hand. FTL for example is a love child of two-man team, with emphasis on different goals/mechanics and with out-of-the-proportions different scope thus I find comparing them unjust, for both sides.

Shadowrun Returns is a different sort - most importantly I didn't backed it and bought it only after autumn or winter sale, so there was far less expectations as well as disappointments to begin with. In overall I liked what I got - long time no seen setting and a text heavy interactions both with npcs as well as the world. Plus a satisfying, tactical (if somehow simplistic) aroma of the encounters. In the PoE perspective, it served me as the first litmus paper for "what can happen to Obsidian plans along the road". Of course only to some extent as there's more than obvious difference between Obs CV and to date Harebrained Schemes portfolio. Still a nice foothold for making assumptions.

And last but not least Double Fine and it's Broken Age which I tried to steer clear, because as much as I love Tim Schafer and hope for many more wonderful games coming from his one of a kind imagination, I would never trust him with handling the money. Not because he's a scam or anything - he's just doesn't seem to be an accountant type and when it comes to the numbers, he' resembles me my dad. And if I would stick to the analogy, he should let his spouse to do his math - I know it worked for my parents* 

Probably not very appropriate personal jokes aside - at least there's always hope his misadventures will serve as a valuable lesson in finances and in the field of expectations and assumptions devs have and have to make (as pointed out by FlintlockJazz here)

Others I didn't have a chance to play, so no comments.

 

TL;DR - it will work out and only very few KS games could serve as comparison to the PoE (namely W2 imho)

 

 

* said a man who spent loads of money on a KS games... ooh hypocrisy

Edited January 23, 2014 by milczyciel

[Sir Chaox]

Yeah, PoE is a different story when we compare the type of game and the team behind it to other Kickstarter projects. But so far, I haven't had any regrets with my KS backings... Maybe because I haven't invested much yet. Planning to up my pledge for PoE once I hear some further details on if they are doing the new stretch goals for wilderness and companions.

[Bryy]

I have the opposite experience, all the Kickstarter projects I've played have done nothing but reinforce my hopes and expectations.  But I don't expect AAA titles from Kickstarter, I expect games that embrace different styles of gameplay and tell less traditional stories.  I expect games that let me reminisce about the classics while enjoying newer graphics and and modern UI's.  

 

I've gotten that out of Shadowrun Returns, FTL, Banner Sage, Expeditions: Conquistador...I think I might have forgotten a few, but you get the point.

Yeah, expecting a AAA game or a game that magically Saves The Industry from Kickstarter is folly. Just enjoy them. It is as simple as that.

[Nihiliste]

The only 3 games I've backed are this, Torment, and Divinity.  I think all 3 should be good.  Progress seems to be going well on Pillars so far based on the updates, and Obsidian has a track record with this type of RPG, unlike most kickstarted games.  Divinity, there's already a great alpha out for it, I think it will be pretty good.  Torment is the one I'm most worried about based on everyone telling me the WL2 beta is crap, but at least the writing team is spectacular which is the most important thing in a narrative focused game like Torment.

[Failion]

Shadow run returns was the most dissapointing worst game out of all of dozen or so kickstarter games I tried out. 

[Primator]

Shadowrun Returns

I didn't back but bought it after the release, probably I was one of the few who was happy that they put it on Steam.

I enjoyed it. Of course it had a couple of flaws, but regarding the budget and the sales price, I was fine with that.

 

The whole crowdfunding / Kickstarter stuff is still quite new, the developers and customers have to make experience still.

If they would have tried to collect 20mio to make a "better" game and double up the time for development, it would have never been successful.

 

Banner Saga

Didn't back that either and just bought release version.

Actually I didn't even know it was Kickstart when I bought it.

It's a lot of fun, I really like the unusual style. The combat is not very complex but challenging.

 

I planning to buy WL2 when it comes out.

 

Recently I was far more disappointed by published games like CoH2 or X-Deadbirth (someone should shoot me for pre-ordering this, I don't have a gun myself)

 

I'm convinced Pillar of Eternity will be a great, I trust in Obsidian.

[Pandamaniac]

Recently I was far more disappointed by published games like CoH2 or X-Deadbirth (someone should shoot me for pre-ordering this, I don't have a gun myself)

But your crime was so heinous that you got what you deserved: having to play X-Rebirth. 

[Primator]

 

Recently I was far more disappointed by published games like CoH2 or X-Deadbirth (someone should shoot me for pre-ordering this, I don't have a gun myself)

But your crime was so heinous that you got what you deserved: having to play X-Rebirth. 

 

At least that I could prevent by immediately uninstalling that trash. :D  

[Gyges]

I had two reasons for backing this project, both corresponding to the only two requirements i need to back a kickstarter.

 

1. It was an idea i wanted to see come to fruition so much that i would want to risk an investment in it.

2. I trusted the developers.

 

I didn't play Baldurs Gate, Torment, Icewind Dale or ToEE like many of the other veterans here, but i did play Neverwinter Nights 2, Mask of the Betrayer and VtM: Bloodlines. Bloodlines is to this day the game i have played through the most, 7 times I've finished it. Even when not mentioning the excellent Fallout: New Vegas i trust Obsidian to deliver on their promises. They have the experience, the ideals and the dedication to make this happen.

Personally, I'm hoping for at least 40 hours and a memorable experience (I'm a completionist though), at best i will get the full worth of what i donated.

On delaying the game: Don't speed up for my sake.

 

What elevated my fears on some kickstarters must have been Grim Dawn. Sure it took years to even make it this far but goddamn if a single guy and some on-and-off guys made something awesome.

On the mega dungeon i admit the double digits worried me but i suppose what will be the biggest time drain in it will be the difficult encounters.

 

Oh, i also bought X-Rebirth.......yeah...at least egosoft is known for their patchwork. Still, nothing besides mute is going to remove that god-awful voicework.

Edited January 24, 2014 by Gyges

[Bryy]

 

One thing to keep in mind about Project: Eternity, is that Obsidian never stopped making games, and has been for some time. Many of the kickstarters are from, well...kickstarter. Several others have been less active in the industry than they once were. While DoubleFine has been in business, it has Tim Schafer. He's a creative and funny guy, but management and budgeting are his classic downfalls. Obsidian arguably has a spotty history, but almost all of that can generally be attributed to external (see: Publisher) problems. While the budget constraints are severe for P:E, I don't think that will ulimately undo them. They're a world class studio with both their heart and reputation in the game building exactly what they desire. I think I can keep the faith for awhile.

 

This.

 

Also, I did not realize that about Schafer. That explains a lot, Lol. For some reason, that makes him more the man in my mind. 

 

 

Bad management skills in a company president are nothing to admire or aspire to.

[Ieo]

I've only played two of the really big, successful ones now: Shadowrun Returns and Broken Age. But despite the two of them making many times what they sought, the feel is much the same. They were made on a strict budget.

 

They're both quite short. They're both fairly linear, though Broken Age much, much less so than the relentless feel of being on railroad tracks in Shadowrun Returns. Options and choices are largely simplified compared to the games they're paying homage to. I enjoyed both for what they were, but I left both feeling that the developers were trying to do the best they could with what was, in game industry terms, not a lot of money. The fact Broken Age was split into two parts precisely because they shot over budget only reinforces that.

 

So now we come to Pillars of Eternity, which also made what seems at first to be a pretty large sum of money. The intention is to create two huge cities, an enormous multi-level dungeon, lots and lots of class and races choices, and a variety of other such claims that indicate a game aiming to be set on an epic scale ala Baldur's Gate.  

 

Yet their budget isn't all that much bigger than the Broken Age budget, the first released installment of which I completed in about three and a half hours. That makes me uneasy. Am I alone on that? 

 

I did not read all the other posts, so these points may have been brought up already.

 

Crowdfunding itself is irrelevant in this discussion so I'm ignoring that part. You seem to be fixated on the overall budget aspect. 

 

The biggest reason why I backed PE at all was due to the pedigree of experience. A whole studio of AAA-experienced folks are involved here, from project management to art design to mechanics implementation and actual programming. What did those other two game project teams/companies have, on KS? Not a fraction of that experience; their leaders and team members do not comprise complete firms the way Obsidian is, which means to say those two games are far more "indie" than PE. You can have someone who designed the tabletop version of a game be the president of a tiny little firm, but that hardly translates to experience in both the business side of things (budget, project management) and actual computer programming and design.

 

So with the whole "pedigree of experience" in mind, overall budget is only a small part of the big picture: First, experienced computer game developers on the business side of things must know how to CALCULATE needed resources. Then they must know how to LEVERAGE said resources, including both money and time. Review Update 67. They must know their employees' capabilities and common potential pitfalls in the development process. Again, those other two projects didn't have the AAA pedigree PE has, which means since their companies/teams have holes in overall business and high-level development experience, I wouldn't have expected more than something linear and "short." 

 

Despite the common funding source from Kickstarter and the fact that these projects "made a lot of money" from that source above their requirements (which, again, may have been inaccurate if they don't estimate needs correctly in the first place), I don't see anything else similar between PE and those projects that would invite fair comparison of final products.

 

Now, as for Obsidian asking for additional funding for more companions and such, I still prefer that they didn't and kept such content for proper expansions; whether those expansions might be crowdfunded in the future remains to be seen, though ultimately I wouldn't mind if the base game is quite polished with most everything people had come to expect in the Kickstarter. Expectations are already--and dare I say "unrealistically"--high; by adding more funding and time delay, I honestly think that increases risk.

[Sir Chaox]

 

 

One thing to keep in mind about Project: Eternity, is that Obsidian never stopped making games, and has been for some time. Many of the kickstarters are from, well...kickstarter. Several others have been less active in the industry than they once were. While DoubleFine has been in business, it has Tim Schafer. He's a creative and funny guy, but management and budgeting are his classic downfalls. Obsidian arguably has a spotty history, but almost all of that can generally be attributed to external (see: Publisher) problems. While the budget constraints are severe for P:E, I don't think that will ulimately undo them. They're a world class studio with both their heart and reputation in the game building exactly what they desire. I think I can keep the faith for awhile.

 

This.

 

Also, I did not realize that about Schafer. That explains a lot, Lol. For some reason, that makes him more the man in my mind. 

 

 

Bad management skills in a company president are nothing to admire or aspire to.

 

 

Hey, I didn't say I wanted to be him. Maybe be his buddy. :D Lol. More seriously, he should maybe pass all the budgeteering on to someone else.

[Bryy]

 

 

 

One thing to keep in mind about Project: Eternity, is that Obsidian never stopped making games, and has been for some time. Many of the kickstarters are from, well...kickstarter. Several others have been less active in the industry than they once were. While DoubleFine has been in business, it has Tim Schafer. He's a creative and funny guy, but management and budgeting are his classic downfalls. Obsidian arguably has a spotty history, but almost all of that can generally be attributed to external (see: Publisher) problems. While the budget constraints are severe for P:E, I don't think that will ulimately undo them. They're a world class studio with both their heart and reputation in the game building exactly what they desire. I think I can keep the faith for awhile.

 

This.

 

Also, I did not realize that about Schafer. That explains a lot, Lol. For some reason, that makes him more the man in my mind. 

 

 

Bad management skills in a company president are nothing to admire or aspire to.

 

 

Hey, I didn't say I wanted to be him. Maybe be his buddy. :D Lol. More seriously, he should maybe pass all the budgeteering on to someone else.

 

You do realize that, as a project leader, he needs to set the budget for his project, right?

 

Tim Shafer isn't just day-dreaming all day. Neither are Josh or Chris, or any other dev.

 

Let's not fall into the trap of "Creatives don't need to have business skills".

 

ALL the best rock stars are savy businessmen. Because it is a business.

 

But I agree that Shafer needs a leash.

 

The DFA fiasco was swept under the rug so hard.

Edited January 25, 2014 by Bryy

[milczyciel]

Tim Shafer isn't just day-dreaming all day. Neither are Josh or Chris, or any other dev.

Let's not fall into the trap of "Creatives don't need to have business skills".

ALL the best rock stars are savy businessmen. Because it is a business.

But I agree that Shafer needs a leash.

The DFA fiasco was swept under the rug so hard.

Hmm... I'd say creatives do have all the rights to day-dream and be terrible accountants, at least as long as (for the sake of company's well being) someone else, more competent have control over the funds and bookkeeping.

But I'm not sure if there's any point in arguing about it because a) I got the feeling you'd literally obliterate me with your experience in the field and b) it may get off-topic. So let me settle this by calling myself naive.

 

Then again, 5 years ago I'd call the same anyone who'd try to convince me to the KS. One of the reasons I got to late to the W2 / PoE funding (thank God they kept gathering money on their own via paypal) was the fact, I didn't believed the rumors and decided to check what's that fuss about when the KS party was already over.

...but mostly because I live under the rock 

[Sir Chaox]

 

 

 

 

One thing to keep in mind about Project: Eternity, is that Obsidian never stopped making games, and has been for some time. Many of the kickstarters are from, well...kickstarter. Several others have been less active in the industry than they once were. While DoubleFine has been in business, it has Tim Schafer. He's a creative and funny guy, but management and budgeting are his classic downfalls. Obsidian arguably has a spotty history, but almost all of that can generally be attributed to external (see: Publisher) problems. While the budget constraints are severe for P:E, I don't think that will ulimately undo them. They're a world class studio with both their heart and reputation in the game building exactly what they desire. I think I can keep the faith for awhile.

 

This.

 

Also, I did not realize that about Schafer. That explains a lot, Lol. For some reason, that makes him more the man in my mind. 

 

 

Bad management skills in a company president are nothing to admire or aspire to.

 

 

Hey, I didn't say I wanted to be him. Maybe be his buddy. :D Lol. More seriously, he should maybe pass all the budgeteering on to someone else.

 

You do realize that, as a project leader, he needs to set the budget for his project, right?

 

Tim Shafer isn't just day-dreaming all day. Neither are Josh or Chris, or any other dev.

 

Let's not fall into the trap of "Creatives don't need to have business skills".

 

ALL the best rock stars are savy businessmen. Because it is a business.

 

But I agree that Shafer needs a leash.

 

The DFA fiasco was swept under the rug so hard.

 

 

Oh, I'm well aware of the budget issues on DFA, and I can tell the project suffered as a result (fairly short experience, for one). But if Schafer is notorious for poor budgeting skills, he should really find someone else to project manage and stick to the creative work. Cause project management is so BORING (at least it looks like it when I turn over to my supervisor every day). 

[Bryy]

Project Management is incredibly boring - when things are going well.