Almost a quarter of men 'admit to rape in parts of Asia'

[Walsingham]

Story on BBC

 

My emphasis:

 

Of those who admitted rape, just under half said they had done so more than once.

 

The prevalence of rape varied between countries.

 

In Papua New Guinea, more than six out of 10 men surveyed admitted forcing a woman to have sex.

 

It was least common in urban areas of Bangladesh, where it was just under one in 10 and Sri Lanka where it was just over one in 10.

 

In Cambodia, China and Indonesia it ranged from one in five to almost half of all men surveyed.

 

 

 

 

[HoonDing]

Why did they leave out India?

[Bartimaeus]

I was kinda stunned by the 10% of men countries...but 50%? Good golly, that's seems actually really scary to me...

 

(edit) Are there any similar statistics on Western countries? I'm kinda curious...

Edited September 10, 2013 by Bartimaeus

[Woldan]

And the other three quarters of men are too ashamed to admit it.

Extremely disturbing statistic.  

Edited September 10, 2013 by Woldan

[obyknven]

 

Story on BBC

 

My emphasis:

 

 

 

In Cambodia, China and Indonesia it ranged from one in five to almost half of all men surveyed.

 

 

 China and Indya  (and other  Asians independent from West) are bad, blah-blah

 

IRL statistics

http://www.statisticbrain.com/rape-statistics/

http://messymatters.com/rape/

http://www.uschina.usc.edu/w_usci/showarticle.aspx?articleID=13037&AspxAutoDetectCookieSupport=1

 

The U.S. Department of State reported  31,833 rapes in 2007, though the Chinese government has not released official statistics for that year. In 2005, the last year for which official Chinese statistics are available, the official number was merely 15,000.

 

In other words  31,833 rapes in China = 2,12 rate/100 000. Meanwhile in US 28.0 rate/100 000, in UK 23.1 rate/100 00.  Western states are leaders in Rapes. Welcome to real world.

[Malcador]

And the other three quarters of men are too ashamed to admit it.

 

Extremely disturbing statistic.  

Well I doubt EVERY man in Asia is a rapist. Still, better than S. Africa, last I read they were at 33% or so in a survey. Going to be one long solution to that problem.

[Hurlshort]

This is disturbing, but it also utterly ridiculous this op/ep piece is: http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/richard-cohen-miley-cyrus-steubenville-and-culture-run-amok/2013/09/02/1cecafa6-11af-11e3-bdf6-e4fc677d94a1_story.html

[Malcador]

This is disturbing, but it also utterly ridiculous this op/ep piece is: http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/richard-cohen-miley-cyrus-steubenville-and-culture-run-amok/2013/09/02/1cecafa6-11af-11e3-bdf6-e4fc677d94a1_story.html

Ah, tasty outrage will ensue from that. Hopefully at least I see one 'trembling with rage' though.

Edited September 10, 2013 by Malcador

[BruceVC]

I think there is a real issue in Asia and the high number of people that have committed rape. We hear almost daily stories on it from places like India. The biggest problem here is there almost seems to be a cultural acceptance of rape from some sectors in Asia and that is what concerns me the most

Edited September 10, 2013 by BruceVC

[Walsingham]

If you read the article, they didn't flat out ask them "Excuse me, but have you committed rape recently?" They asked them if they had had sex with women under certain circumstances. Those circumstances qualifying as rape.

 

I believe the key here is that we are talking in this instance about rapes that might have been avoided if the perpetrator knew/believed those circumstances constituted rape.

 

My own perspective is that while there are cultural differences between nations, we are living in an era where all internet users and global consumers have an impact on global culture. We can talk about these issues, and we can express an interest in cultural icons educating men about the issues.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

I think, as Wals touched on, that the problem with rape is that it isn't clearly understood by large swaths of the population. While the typical image of someone being violently violated is certainly rape, it is far from the only act that constitutes rape.

[BruceVC]

I think, as Wals touched on, that the problem with rape is that it isn't clearly understood by large swaths of the population. While the typical image of someone being violently violated is certainly rape, it is far from the only act that constitutes rape.

 

Well said young grasshopper, well said

[HoonDing]

Apparently Asian men have a hard time understanding when 'Yes' means 'No' and 'No' means 'Yes'.

[Gorgon]

Does pressuring, nagging or convincing someone into sex constitute rape. Not according to the law I don't think. I mean isn't the woman kinda required to resist or say 'no' for it to be rape. The conditions didn't place any emphasis on this. 

 

It might seem irrelevant but when sorting out rape allegations these are the things the police are left with. They can't know what goes on in the heads of the involved. How many wives let their husbands have their way just to shut them up. 

 

I mean it ain't pretty, it's kinda gross actually, but it's not necessarily rape either. 

[Orogun01]

Apparently Asian men have a hard time understanding when 'Yes' means 'No' and 'No' means 'Yes'.

To be fair, all men have a hard time understanding what women mean. However, judging by the questionnaire consent was never asked by these men. 

[Hurlshort]

Does pressuring, nagging or convincing someone into sex constitute rape. Not according to the law I don't think. I mean isn't the woman kinda required to resist or say 'no' for it to be rape. The conditions didn't place any emphasis on this. 

 

It might seem irrelevant but when sorting out rape allegations these are the things the police are left with. They can't know what goes on in the heads of the involved. How many wives let their husbands have their way just to shut them up. 

 

I mean it ain't pretty, it's kinda gross actually, but it's not necessarily rape either. 

 

I guess it can be complicated when it comes to spouses.  This may sound odd, but I'd say the results matter quite a bit when it comes to nagging and pressuring.  If the pressured party feels victimized at the end, that's a serious problem.  But a spouse is like a workout partner, you don't always want to go to the gym, but if they can guilt you into going, then you will probably be glad you did afterwards.  This in no way resembles rape. 

[Raithe]

For another slice of relates news that might interest Indias Incredibly Powerful "Abused Goddesses Campaign" Condemns Domestic Violence

 

 

 

Ad agency Taproot physically recreated scenes from old hand-painted images of Indian goddesses.

 

Makeup was used to add bruises and wounds to the models before photographing them. This is a recreation of the goddess Saraswati.

2. All the props were either real or painted on, keeping both authenticity and realism in mind.

 

3. “Pray that we never see this day. Today, more than 68% of women in India are victims of domestic violence. Tomorrow, it seems like no woman shall be spared. Not even the ones we pray to.”

 

Also on this subject, many years ago I used to date a girl who really did my head in. She would say "no" when she wanted me to take it as "yes", and would say "yes" when she really wanted to say "no", yet she'd also say "no" when she meant "no". if I took her "No" as no when she meant "yes" she'd get catty. If I took is as yes when she meant no she'd get even more catty. I just want to say, I am not a freaking mind reader. Trying to pick up signs of exactly which she was meaning was way too much hassle and mind games so I got out of that relationship.  So while there's a lot of areas where the men have to learn exactly what is and isn't and recognise rape culture as a problem.. you can't lay the blame for everything on just the men. Sometimes the women can be just as frakked up.

[Volourn]

And, if the no means yes thing than women can be guilty of it as well. In fact, I watch Big Brother (yeah yeah I know reality tv lol), and there's a pushy woman on there who constantly pushes for sex from her 'showmance' and he constantly says no and even pushes her off, but she keeps coming and eventually he stops fighting. I guess that is rape too. L0L

[melkathi]

This is disturbing, but it also utterly ridiculous this op/ep piece is: http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/richard-cohen-miley-cyrus-steubenville-and-culture-run-amok/2013/09/02/1cecafa6-11af-11e3-bdf6-e4fc677d94a1_story.html

 

That was a ... wierd (lacking for a better word) read. He is of course right when he says that what was done to the girl is wrong. But I think he looses himself in his attempts to diferentiate it from rape. In the end he left a lot of readers thinking that he was defending the perps when in fact he was trying to say that society needs to do more than simply be outraged for a summer and then forget about incidents and their root causes.

And he is no better. He rages about Cyrus but forgot that last summer we were upset about Bieber performing at a Victoria Secrets show.

 

Though I must confess, I returned from the gym on Monday wondering about the state of the women's movement. It's a mixed gym and a couple of us men have joined some of the programs (power abs for me. Some men started pilates etc). And I suddenly relized that the song this young woman instructor puts on to excersise to with these (until recently) groups of ladies is called "**** killer" . Seriously?

[Zoraptor]

I'm really not sure that their stats/ approach are good. If you worded the question correctly you could have every drunken hook up in Newcastle/ Chicago/ Warsaw or wherever being 'rape', after all if you buy a woman a drink you're degrading her ability to make rational decisions, thus removing the ability for informed consent... and vice versa I guess. 

[Raithe]

Heh. I've had a woman find it incredibly offensive that I wouldn't say yes to sex because she was drunk. Even when she sobered up and I was "look, if you were sober and wanted to I'd say yes, but you were schloshed out of your skull so I was a gentleman". All she focused on was that I had said no at that point so I obviously thought she was unattractive and had therefor insulted her...

[alanschu]

Sounds like a bullet dodged, then.

[Volourn]

"after all if you buy a woman a drink you're degrading her ability to make rational decisions,"
 

I never really got the argument that if you have sex with a woman who is drunk that you a e raping her because supposedly she can't say 'yes'; int hat state, since chances are the man in question in question is also drunk so going by that logic.. did the woman also rape the man in that situation? IT DOES NOT MAKE SENSE.

 

I always thought being drunk should not be sued as ane xcuse for poor decisions. if a woman (or a man) sleeps with someone while drunk and thenr egrets it later TOO BAD SO SAD.

Edited September 10, 2013 by Volourn

[Maria Caliban]

 I mean isn't the woman kinda required to resist or say 'no' for it to be rape.

 

If that were true, having sex with someone who was passed out wouldn't be rape.

 

 

"after all if you buy a woman a drink you're degrading her ability to make rational decisions,"

 

I never really got the argument that if you have sex with a woman who is drunk that you a e raping her because supposedly she can't say 'yes'; int hat state, since chances are the man in question in question is also drunk so going by that logic.. did the woman also rape the man in that situation? IT DOES NOT MAKE SENSE.

 

I always thought being drunk should not be sued as ane xcuse for poor decisions. if a woman (or a man) sleeps with someone while drunk and thenr egrets it later TOO BAD SO SAD.

 

If someone is so drunk they can't made informed decisions then they can't consent to sex. Exactly how much alcohol that is varies from person to person. When in doubt, keep your pants on.

 

 

Heh. I've had a woman find it incredibly offensive that I wouldn't say yes to sex because she was drunk. Even when she sobered up and I was "look, if you were sober and wanted to I'd say yes, but you were schloshed out of your skull so I was a gentleman". All she focused on was that I had said no at that point so I obviously thought she was unattractive and had therefor insulted her...

 

I've had the same thing happen. Some people seem to think they have a right to sex. 

Edited September 11, 2013 by Maria Caliban

[Raithe]

Heh.  Ethics - A Letter to My Son About Consent

 

 

Dear D,

I’m writing this letter after watching the parents in the Steubenville Rape Trial crying over their son as he was found guilty of rape. I’ll be completely honest with you; I can’t say that I found much pity in my heart for their pain. Instead I found myself thinking, ‘yes, you should be crying. Your son treated that girl like a toy, a rag, a nothing. You raised a boy that lacked even the most basic compassion for that girl as a fellow human being.’ I’m imagining your face right now, thinking ‘okay mom, not quite sure why you’re telling me this…’ Yep, brace yourself; mom’s got a bee in her bonnet. Just bear with me and carry on reading.

 

You see, somehow this crying couple’s son and his friends were convinced they had a right to do as they pleased – either because they were brought up believing themselves to be above the rules, or because they were so lacking in common decency that they had no concept of how to treat other people. Whichever it was, the parents and coaches of Steubenville failed their sons and contributed to a culture where a girl was treated in the most heartless and disgraceful way for these boys amusement. The horrible truth is that as long as parents anywhere allow their boys to think that their wants are more important than other people’s rights this will continue to happen. I’m writing this letter to you because I don’t want to fail you in the same way. I love you too much to leave these things unsaid.

 

I need you to know that writing this doesn’t mean that I think you would act like these boys did. Discussing the potential for bad behaviour doesn’t mean I think it’s inevitable, or even likely. It just means I need to know (for both our sakes) that I taught you what sexual freedoms and responsibilities really mean. Educating you about proper consent doesn’t mean I see you as a potential sexual predator, any more than my educating you about the safe use of matches presumed you were a potential arsonist. This is about safety; your safety and the safety of any potential sexual partner.

 

I want you to consider a scenario. Imagine an average weekend when you’re staying at your mate’s house. You’ve had a good day laughing and joking with a group of people, some of whom you know and a couple of friends-of-friends. You’ve had a couple of drinks, laughed at stuff on the internet, played x-box for hours and then gradually drifted into various stages of getting comfortable, shedding some of your clothes and sleeping.

 

Now imagine waking up to discover a man on top of you, having obviously had some kind of sex with you. I know that’s a shocking thought. Something you’ve probably never considered, even though male victims make up 8% of reported rapes. Imagine your shock, your disgust and your anger. Now imagine everyone telling you that it’s your fault.

 

Would you feel that the fact that ‘you didn’t say no’ while it was happening made it okay? Or that the fact you were drunk or partly clothed or sleeping in public meant you’d put yourself at risk and were ‘asking for it?  Would the fact that you’d spent some time together, been friendly, or accepted his offer of a drink, mean you were ‘sending out signals’ to him? Would the fact that you made a sexual joke earlier in the evening mean you were ‘up for it’? Would the fact that he heard you’d had sex with one of his friends, or relatives, be an acceptable reason? How about if you were walking home alone at night? Would you be actively putting yourself in danger and ‘partly responsible’ if a stranger dragged you into an alley and sexually assaulted you? If you accepted an invite to a friend’s house and he pinned you down on the sofa, would you be to blame for being alone with him? I’m convinced your answer to each of those would be a loud and vehement ‘no’ – quite rightly.

 

So ask yourself this: if every single situation remained the same – except this time you’re female – does that make it acceptable? The answer, of course, is still no. No, nothing changes the lack of consent in these scenarios. Every one of those situations is sexual assault; no ifs, no buts, no maybes, and no excuses. Consent cannot be assumed, forced or taken. EVER. Consent is always, and only, something that is willingly given.

 

So let’s be absolutely perfectly clear: Sexual acts that take place without consent are rape, and the only thing that means yes is the word yes.

 

Not saying no does not mean yes.
Not fighting you off does not mean yes.
Not being awake does not mean yes.
Not being sober does not mean yes.
No type of clothing – or absence of clothing – means yes.
No amount of previous partners means yes.

 

Accepting a drink does not mean yes. Going out to dinner does not mean yes. Accepting a lift home in your car does not mean yes, and neither does an invitation in for coffee. Sitting next to you on the sofa does not mean yes. A gasp, sigh or returned caress does not mean yes. Erect flesh is not a yes – cold, fear, and even death can all cause the body to mimic the signs of sexual arousal. A yes to a kiss does not mean you can assume a yes to anything else. Never assume. Let me repeat that: NEVER ASSUME.

 

Resist the dangerous temptation to hope a kiss will just drift into something more without talking about it. Understand that ‘trying it on’ or ‘pushing your luck’ or imagining you’re correctly ‘reading the signs’ are all just polite euphemisms for being willing to risk committing a sexual assault in the hope that your feelings are reciprocated. Seriously, don’t. Every single woman I know can reel off experiences with this. Don’t be that guy.

 

The word yes is the only 100% unambiguous yes.

 

So, how do you get to yes? You ask. Really, it’s that simple. Ask the question, hear the answer, and respond accordingly. Even if it’s not the answer you were hoping for. Especially if it’s not the answer you were hoping for. That’s the difference between two people enjoying sex together, and one person sexually assaulting the other. The only reliable invitations to sex are clear, unambiguous, and verbal. If asking and affirming seem too embarrassing to contemplate, then maybe you just aren’t ready for sex with another person.

 

There’s only one person you should ever consider having unquestioning, silent sex with: yourself. That’s also the only person that might possibly ‘owe you’ an orgasm.

 

I know, all this sounds like such a list of rules and obligations for something that’s meant to be ‘natural’. Too much effort, even – well that’s tough. The world should not be treated like a sexual all-you-can-eat buffet where you can just help yourself. That’s exactly the attitude that has those boys (quite rightly) sitting in a cell. Sex that involves anyone beyond yourself is never just about your desire. If you imagine that your desires ever allow you to coerce another person into fulfilling your sexual need, then you have to ask yourself if you are willing to personally face the consequences of that view. We’re right back to that scenario where some stranger decides to use your body to fulfill their sexual desires, regardless of your feelings. Or you end up in a cell. Think about what that mindset means for the female relatives that you love. Should they be ‘fair game’ to any person attracted to them – like some commodity? That’s the rape-culture mindset, right there. It’s why I’m taking the time to put my thoughts on to paper; because the best lesson I can teach you is the ability to recognise that your choices have consequences, for you and the people you involve in your decisions.

 

So far, so negative… but there are real personal benefits to consent. Consensual sex is glorious. Verbal communication is hot. Listening to your partner and verbalising what you want will make you better in bed, and more responsive to each other’s needs. Talking about your desires and fantasies is far more likely to lead to them happening than hoping you’re dating a psychic. I’m sure your cringing at me now, but if you got this far there’s chocolate in the fridge, help yourself to it. Yes, this is a test.

 

You might not think it now, but making sure the sex you are involved in always involves complete consent will be the best gift you can give your future self. You’ll never look at yourself in the mirror and wonder if you pushed someone to doing something they weren’t ready for. You’ll never be the hypocrite that lectures their child while hiding a guilty secret. You won’t be burdened with regret at the harm you personally caused someone. You’ll never look a woman who has been abused in the face and know you’re a part of what caused her hurt. Most of all, you’ll be a leader not a follower. You’ll never be that boy in court; instead you’ll be part of a better consciousness that will make the world a safer place for everyone.

 

You’ll be the man I already see in you.

With love, always, Mum xxx