RANDOM VIDEO GAME NEWS

[AwesomeOcelot]

PC game sales are larger than they were a decade ago, enough of the crazy talk. Consoles have always been the far larger install base, for over 2 decades, in terms of "core" gaming, because they're cheaper and often sold at a loss. For revenue, DLC, F2P, and MMO, plus no loss leading hardware, mean the equations are different. PC gaming never shrank, console gaming just grew faster, with more casual gamers and ****ty games.

[Malcador]

Last time I followed wargames was when PCG had articles on it, only name I knew was SSI, think. Shame they're out of that now, but anyway, if the guys following wargames say Slitherine is competent then I guess that is cause for some optimism that it'll be good.

[Oner]

 

 

For no reason at all Relic tinkered with what wasn't broken, instead of improving the core gameplay of DoW.

 

Yeah. That's how I felt.

 

Well they went from base builder RTS to squad control, like a 40k game is supposed to be like. Understandable change imo.

[pmp10]

As for PC gaming dying...it's not my fault that PC sales are 1/25th of what they were a little over a decade ago.  I know PC gamers refuse to see it, but then again, VHS aficionados would probably also say that VHS is not a dead medium either.

Now that's just silly.

Even the top games that made PC gaming decade ago could barely scratch 1 million mark.

Only the revolutionary ones like Half Life and Diablo 2 produced a following that could consistently break that barrier.

I agree that hardcore PC gaming has been declining and may go out all-together in the next console generation but there is no denying that it never appealed to same numbers as consoles have.

[Malcador]

Well they went from base builder RTS to squad control, like a 40k game is supposed to be like. Understandable change imo.

Well a 40k with the SMs anyway - Orks and IG could have bases and be sensible. But was a nice change, I wish the squads were a bit bigger and you could customize them all rather than just the sergeant.

[melkathi]

 

 

 

For no reason at all Relic tinkered with what wasn't broken, instead of improving the core gameplay of DoW.

 

Yeah. That's how I felt.

 

Well they went from base builder RTS to squad control, like a 40k game is supposed to be like. Understandable change imo.

 

 

It's understandable to make a game like that. What is not 100% understandable is why take a franchise and change it's nature. DoW had had three expansions at that time, creating a very clear image of what DoW was. Then with DoW2 they changed that drastically, to an extent where people who loved the original ran the danger of not just liking it best, but actually hating it.

 

And what a 40k game truly is supposed to be like is turn based, on a tabletop with painted miniatures

[Oner]

*shrug* Sequels are there to change things up.

 

I'd like to see you play a video game with painted minis on your table without holo-projectors.

[Keyrock]

I agree DoW2 was too easy.  I played the original campaign on the default setting, found it to be a cake walk, stepped up to hard for Chaos Rising, found it to still be a cake walk, then stepped up to the hardest setting for Retribution and didn't break a sweat, the only enemies offering me any difficulty being the Eldar (pointy eared sons of *****es).  Still, I had a blast playing that game, particularly Retribution, because Orks.  The shift from traditional base building to squad based definitely caused a rift in the player base (could this be the work of Tzeentch?).  Some hated the change, others, myself included, welcomed it with open arms.

Edited May 25, 2013 by Keyrock

[Drowsy Emperor]

Its not that I'm particularly attached to base building mechanics (one of my favorite games of all time is Myth 2: Soulblighter), but I didn't like how small the armies were in DoW 2. It felt like Warcraft 3 where you basically lead a hero unit and his entourage and manipulate more with MMO like unit abilities than with the units themselves. The latter is also present in Starcraft II.

 

The graphics lost some of the clarity of DoW I think, because they put too many details on the units and too many  vibrant colors resulting in too much visual clutter. Way too much strain on my eyes, even on my 22 inch monitor.

 

And yes, as Keyrock says, the campaigns were basically rigged to be won by the player.

 

DoW3 is just a question of time and I hope they take take the opposite approach and make it like WH40K Epic in real time. I don't know how well DoW2 was balanced but DoW was problematic in that regard all the way to the last expansion with various races going from underpowered to overpowered and back.

This is something that could be improved upon.

[greylord]

 

As for PC gaming dying...it's not my fault that PC sales are 1/25th of what they were a little over a decade ago.  I know PC gamers refuse to see it, but then again, VHS aficionados would probably also say that VHS is not a dead medium either.

Now that's just silly.

Even the top games that made PC gaming decade ago could barely scratch 1 million mark.

Only the revolutionary ones like Half Life and Diablo 2 produced a following that could consistently break that barrier.

I agree that hardcore PC gaming has been declining and may go out all-together in the next console generation but there is no denying that it never appealed to same numbers as consoles have.

 

 

On this site, I'm probably outspoken, but PC gaming is dead by all signs.  The only major players are really Blizzard and Steam, all others are bit players.  The biggest portions of PC gaming currently is MMORPGs.  What people here want to count (which I expressely put as another type of sales) are tablet and smartphone game sales...and you are right as I stated in regards to those, those are currently who are making a killing. 

 

PC games, don't go to Steam, where do you actually get your PC games at this point.  Origin?  EA's PC gaming section for PC gaming hasn't really gotten even close to the Billion dollar sales...their console games sell a lot more as well (and of course you can never discount their sports games).  Blizzard, Even if you state they sold 12 million copies of Diablo, and we'll toss in 5 million copies of StarCraft before heart of the swarm was released even though it was released prior to that by last year...at full price, that still doesn't break the 200 million mark with ALL OF THOSE SALES combined.  Are you seriously trying to tell me that Steam has made 20 billion last  year approximately?

 

If so, then why isn't it in the top companies at that mark?  Because I'm not seeing it on the list of those multiple of tens of billions of dollar companies...and STEAM really does have a nigh monopoly at this point which everyone else in the PC gaming market is trying to break if they aren't in the Tablet/smartphone/facebook type of games.

 

You can't really buy PC games in stores anymore...because they don't really sale there either.

 

Now tablet/smartphone type games...they are the whale compared to everything else.  If PC gaming is the fly, Consoles are the elephant, then tablets/smartphones are the whale (actually probably bigger, they're the space whale...if you get that DrW reference).

 

PC games may come back...but not right now.

 

Bury your heads in the sand if you want.

 

Make up excuses, but on this I think overall, beyond the hardcore PC gamers, most would agree.

 

I enjoy PC gaming (believe it or not) but numberswise, unless it's an MMORPG or online type game (like Diablo) simply put, not only do I see the sales of PC gaming simply dead except for a few sellers who really, their number don't compare....but in addition in MP, the numbers simply aren't anywhere close to what the Console MP numbers are for the same games!  And that's from a market that primarily GETS THEIR GAMES ONLINE at this point.

 

I remember back in the early 2000's they compared the amount of money the Porn business was making and it was huge...but at that time PC gaming was actually making almost as much if not more money than the actual Porn industry.  It wasn't that you had games selling 10 million copies in PC gaming, but the total enmasse.  You had a LOT of PC games, MORE PC games, all being made.  The actual numbers and variety was huge.  Ironically most of those eventually moved to consoles after PC gaming took a dump...OR downsized, got a lot smaller, and now do indie games on either console or PC.

 

But, then again, it is expected to be shouted down as crazy amongst the hardcore PC gamers...and seriously, that does sort of make me happy.  Despite the fact that I probably am one of the biggest console players on this forum (which is also something I can't really figure out, do PC gamers chase the console gamers away or something?  I got AP and DSIII for PC, but I also got them for consoles, I played them on consoles, and I know they were released on consoles as well as FNV...so I know there has to be console players out there that played them on the console), I'm actually considered a PC gamer overall as that's where I still do a LOT of my gaming.

[pmp10]

On this site, I'm probably outspoken, but PC gaming is dead by all signs.  The only major players are really Blizzard and Steam, all others are bit players.  The biggest portions of PC gaming currently is MMORPGs.

But that's just it - as long as MMOs and freemium model stays PC centric it's not dead yet.

Granted - a lot of things will change with new console generation but it's way too early to say that death of PC gaming is inevitable.

[Drowsy Emperor]

PC gaming may be dead as opposed to the sales of yogurt but that's a statistic you couldn't only wipe your bum with.

 

 

In other words, you're wrong. Its still a multi-million dollar business and the only difference I see from the late 90's is that the costs have risen to the point that the gap between the AAA titles and the regular titles is now a gulf and that the consoles have eaten a part of the market.

 

On the other hand, low budget titles have substantially grown in the last years.

 

I used to maintain a list of all role playing games and strategy games released in the last 10 years with scores by a local magazine so I have actual evidence to prove my claim. As typical PC centric genres this is quite representative. I'll use only the RPG list to as proof.

 

At the peak there were about 12 RPG titles per year and a bit more strategy games. At the lowest point, there were around 6-7. While there is a definite decline, its not either sharp or constant with significant spikes of up to 10 single player games per year. 

That is without taking into account the rise in MMORPG's. If I were to include MMO games and lower budget titles the genre would actually be producing more games per year than ever. 

The strategy genre has gone even lower in popularity so some games go under the radar but the overall production is also rising.

 

What I will agree with is that the quality has dipped in general because some of the more innovative designers have been scooped up by the console industry or are busy making ****ty games for facebook.  So yes, the PC is no longer the center of innovation and even the recent kickstarter revival is basically living on old glory but its nowhere near dead. 

 

 

Hyperproduction has taken its toll on experimentation and innovation across all platforms, not just the PC. 

The current generation of consoles doesn't even have a dozen truly innovative must play exclusive games to its name.

A rather telling fact is that no new notable genres have been established on the consoles.

In fact, two PC genres - FPS games (even if they are made primarily for consoles) and MMORPGs are the stars of this generation.

 

I rest my case.

[AwesomeOcelot]

Fact is there are more PC games released, more sales, more subscriptions, more DLC sold, more micro transactions, year on year. How a platform can be dying when it's seen growth for the last 2 decades is beyond me, not only that but the growth has accelerated since people turned to digital stores.

 

PC gaming is not, and has never been, bigger than console gaming. Console gaming hasn't been taking consumers from PC. Console gaming can grow without touching PC gaming.

 

I don't know where someone can get the idea that PC game sales have decreased, let alone be 1/25th of what they were, that's crazy.

Edited May 25, 2013 by AwesomeOcelot

[Hurlshort]

Quite a few of us own consoles and play them regularly, Greylord, so I'm not sure where you get the idea that you are alone in that here.  What you are alone in is the misguided notion that PC gaming is dead.  It has simply changed.  You are correct that it has lost visibility in stores.  But it has become a huge part of the digital marketplace landscape.  Also you keep bringing up Steam alongside Blizzard, which is odd.  Blizzard is a very successful developer, but Steam's success is for entirely different reasons and benefits countless developers.

 

You can start worrying about PC gaming being dead when the big developers and publishers stop making games on the PC.  That hasn't happened.  Sure, Call of Duty sells a buttload of copies on consoles, and yet they still feel it is worth releasing a PC version.  Why would they release their games on a dead system? 

[HoonDing]

PC gaming is dead because there are no games I like.

[Drowsy Emperor]

PC gaming is dead because there are no games I like.

 

Its funny... because it might come true.

[mute688]

 

 

On this site, I'm probably outspoken, but PC gaming is dead by all signs.  The only major players are really Blizzard and Steam, all others are bit players.  The biggest portions of PC gaming currently is MMORPGs.  What people here want to count (which I expressely put as another type of sales) are tablet and smartphone game sales...and you are right as I stated in regards to those, those are currently who are making a killing. 

 

PC games, don't go to Steam, where do you actually get your PC games at this point.  Origin?  EA's PC gaming section for PC gaming hasn't really gotten even close to the Billion dollar sales...their console games sell a lot more as well (and of course you can never discount their sports games).  Blizzard, Even if you state they sold 12 million copies of Diablo, and we'll toss in 5 million copies of StarCraft before heart of the swarm was released even though it was released prior to that by last year...at full price, that still doesn't break the 200 million mark with ALL OF THOSE SALES combined.  Are you seriously trying to tell me that Steam has made 20 billion last  year approximately?

 

If so, then why isn't it in the top companies at that mark?  Because I'm not seeing it on the list of those multiple of tens of billions of dollar companies...and STEAM really does have a nigh monopoly at this point which everyone else in the PC gaming market is trying to break if they aren't in the Tablet/smartphone/facebook type of games.

 

You can't really buy PC games in stores anymore...because they don't really sale there either.

 

Now tablet/smartphone type games...they are the whale compared to everything else.  If PC gaming is the fly, Consoles are the elephant, then tablets/smartphones are the whale (actually probably bigger, they're the space whale...if you get that DrW reference).

 

PC games may come back...but not right now.

 

Bury your heads in the sand if you want.

 

Make up excuses, but on this I think overall, beyond the hardcore PC gamers, most would agree.

 

I enjoy PC gaming (believe it or not) but numberswise, unless it's an MMORPG or online type game (like Diablo) simply put, not only do I see the sales of PC gaming simply dead except for a few sellers who really, their number don't compare....but in addition in MP, the numbers simply aren't anywhere close to what the Console MP numbers are for the same games!  And that's from a market that primarily GETS THEIR GAMES ONLINE at this point.

 

I remember back in the early 2000's they compared the amount of money the Porn business was making and it was huge...but at that time PC gaming was actually making almost as much if not more money than the actual Porn industry.  It wasn't that you had games selling 10 million copies in PC gaming, but the total enmasse.  You had a LOT of PC games, MORE PC games, all being made.  The actual numbers and variety was huge.  Ironically most of those eventually moved to consoles after PC gaming took a dump...OR downsized, got a lot smaller, and now do indie games on either console or PC.

 

But, then again, it is expected to be shouted down as crazy amongst the hardcore PC gamers...and seriously, that does sort of make me happy.  Despite the fact that I probably am one of the biggest console players on this forum (which is also something I can't really figure out, do PC gamers chase the console gamers away or something?  I got AP and DSIII for PC, but I also got them for consoles, I played them on consoles, and I know they were released on consoles as well as FNV...so I know there has to be console players out there that played them on the console), I'm actually considered a PC gamer overall as that's where I still do a LOT of my gaming.

 

 

Just to show how you have no actual figures to back up anything you claim, it's all anecdotal, have a look at EA's financial statement that they released for the 4 quarters of 2012.

 

http://investor.ea.com/releasedetail.cfm?ReleaseID=696991

 

Pay close attention.  PC net revenue at 931 million, yet you claim that EA's pc sales don't come close to reaching a billion dollars. Net revenue, not gross revenue.  Gross revenue would be far in excess of a billion dollars.

 

Total mobile net revenue for the same period was 352 million, a third of the PC revenue.  Yet again you are wrong in claiming that "they are the whale" compared to PC gaming.

 

You seem to have nothing to back up anything you say apart from gut feeling and anecdotal stories.

[Morgoth]

Meanwhile, Rome 2 pre-orders outnumber those of Shogun 2 6:1.

 

PC gaming ishhh dead guiz!

[Drowsy Emperor]

Meanwhile, Rome 2 pre-orders outnumber those of Shogun 2 6:1.

 

PC gaming ishhh dead guiz!

 

Not surprising given the difference in appeal in those two historical periods

 

(I realise you were trying to say something else)

[Huinehtar]

I really doubt PC gaming is dead, or will be dead in the next few years.

Concerning IPs, new console games' IP are not so many: reboots, remakes, HD ports, cross-overs... In fact it is always the same. Yes, I am talking about quality and not quantity, but I do not personally judge a market only on sales, but with new creative design, because people can be tired of the same thing, they bought once, why buying the same thing again? Look at the Wii and the Wii-U.

 

So considering exclusive IPs, many of them are console games (like GTA, RDR), but they are few. People do not buy multiplatform games on PC at first, because consoles are cheaper. But PC prices are not the same they were in the 80's. PC sales may have decreased this year, but I do not think it is because of a global decrease of the PC market. I think PC are now efficient for their price. Unless you are a wealthy hard core gamer, there is no interest having a new PC each year or every 2 or 3 years. And now have we new IPs (yes indie games), PC/tablets/smartphone exclusive. AAA games are so expensive to produce, and also so few, that if they don't sell enough, it could be dramatic, do not forget the indie scene, crowdfunding and low cost engines.

 

PC won't be dead, because 1) people will always need a computer to work, and in some cases, tablets and smartphones are useless, (even though there are some hybrid things, laptops with tablet screen for example) 2) Since there are some opensource softwares useful or needed for working, there will be opensource communauties and inside of them, there will always be people wanting to create some games on their computers/devices... This could be niche, but this will remain.

 

Gaming-only machines/devices will die, if they cannot provide more than multitasks devices.

Edited May 25, 2013 by Huinehtar

[Morgoth]

Torment and Project Eternity are now dead due to the Xbox One announcement.

 

True story.

[Drowsy Emperor]

Torment and Project Eternity are now dead due to the Xbox One announcement.

 

True story.

 

No, they have in fact been confirmed as new Call of Duty installments.

[Morgoth]

I'm playing Wizardry 8 right now and can't stop.

 

I mean, I can't stop thinking all the time about Halo 5.

[Drowsy Emperor]

I don't have the patience to play even very streamlined grind heavy games, which is why I'm not picking up any pre BG dungeon crawls, or anything designed in that style.

[Oerwinde]

A friend and I got into RPGs around the same time, me with Heroes Quest(Quest for Glory 1) and him with Bards Tale. I could never get into Bards tale, and that pretty much defined my taste in RPGs. I have a hard time with first person RPGs in general