Family Issues

[Janmanden]

I would have suggested that you ask yourself and your wife whether you really want to be a big family or run your own show, because if you do want to be a big family I think you both have to treat them with a bit of cautious politeness. In a way you have to get to know your family again and let them get a chance to adjust to you and your wife as well, slowly, and as far as I can tell that isn't going to happen unless your wife learn how to put some restraint on herself for a while to repress those things that upset your family at least until your family get to know her other qualities better. Until your family learn to love her like you do, which is probably going to time some time, since they seem to be quite sensitive and not quite as tolerant somehow, not sure which, but it sounds like they've got some grudges. In a sense you need to build up some goodwill if it all possible. With ten years of toxicity in the bag it's probably not going to be all that easy for everybody, but surely nobody can be interested in keeping up a bad faith forever since it's mostly just a misunderstanding anyway, or so I thought.. Think your choice of action is a good one too.

[GhostofAnakin]

Based entirely on what was written in the OP, and not knowing any further details that may give a different perspective of the situation, your family comes across as kind of petty. They seem to get pissed off at your wife over the tiniest of things, and expect her to show them some sort of reverence whenever she's in their presence.

 

It's a tough situation because these are family, but at the same time, they're not really being understanding or tolerant toward someone you care about.

[alanschu]

If you haven't already shown your wife the letter, you may want to consider it. I'm not relationship guru myself, but if you do make sure it's very clear to your wife that you're in her corner in terms of support (which I feel you are anyway). My impression is that there's a communication issue, and I don't know your family or your wife, but if this is the way they interpret things, there may be subconscious things that your wife may do (an effort to impress maybe?). I can agree with the sentiment your dad puts forth that she may need an "epiphany" with respect to realizing there are quirks in her behaviour that may be grating. I myself have run into those moments before, and I thank those friends that had the courage to actually tell me about it. Whatever happens with that, however, be super supportive of your wife because sometimes, especially in the short term, it can really hurt to have our faults pointed out to me. I think it'll also be necessary because assuming you love your wife (and I think you do!), the only way reconciliation is really possible is if your parents are open to reconciling with both you AND your wife.

 

 

Now, you obviously do not want to cut out your extended family (or you just would), but I don't blame you for feeling hurt, especially with the following line:

 

"Finally I'd like you to consider why you want to get back in the family. Is it because you miss us? Or is it for the kids? Or just to win? We love you and care about your welfare, but we also don't think it is good for anyone (especially kids) to be in dis-functional relationships."

 

I found this exceptionally rude and very dismissive (the bolded part especially), while also shirking his own responsibilities in having and open and healthy relationship with his own children - this is not your fault. I think that if you decide to restrict contact with your parents, you should understand that as much as it may be difficult, it may also be a break from what appears to be a pretty significant negative influence in your life at this time. I think it's very unfortunate that your family isn't interested in reconciling.

 

 

If I were in your shoes (so this is only what I feel would be best for me, which may not be best for you), I would try to talk with them in person, let them know that their unwillingness to put in the effort to enter family therapy deeply hurts you, as it shows an unwillingness to accept that they may be somewhat responsible themselves, and certainly an unwillingness to work together and keep their son in their lives. I would probably even try to use his words to echo the sentiment, by stating that you hope that he can have another ah-ha moment where he realizes he wants to have YOU in HIS life as much as YOU want HIM in yours, and consider working with his son (you) to attain that goal. Not to win or for the kids, but because you're family and love and support each other.

 

Sadly, I have had to have a number of these conversations in the past year with my own friends, and they always suck. I set the expectation for myself that I will never see those friends again, which may not be as possible with family. An unenviable place for sure, but if it does go down this path, make sure it's clear that the offer to reconcile is always on the table and that they hope you'll reconsider. I hope your wife shows the same support in all this that you are showing her as well. Less obvious benefits could be a stronger relationship with your wife, and maybe even your immediate family as a whole.

 

 

I'd actually encourage talking with a professional if you are able. They can help be really good sounding boards. I was able to get access to one via work when my life was in full on crisis back in early this year, and I just spoke with him for an hour on the phone once a month, for about 5 months. Worked wonders, and he gave me some suggested reading to help me practice moving on (mine was hardcore girl problems, coupled with giant friendship fractures that stemmed from that). I'm in a much much much better place now than I was 11 months ago.

 

Good luck mate. Feel free to send a PM if you need it.

[Humanoid]

Is it possible that all the (minor) issues are just smoke and mirrors and that the problem was that they had judged your wife from day one due to her background as a showgirl (amongst other things)? Followed then by ten years of actively trying to find faults because of that pre-judgement?

 

I say this because of your comment about bible verses and such - while not necessarily an indicator of their conservatism or even prudishness, it may be that the deck was loaded from the start.

[Blarghagh]

"Finally I'd like you to consider why you want to get back in the family. Is it because you miss us? Or is it for the kids? Or just to win? We love you and care about your welfare, but we also don't think it is good for anyone (especially kids) to be in dis-functional relationships."

 

I found this exceptionally rude and very dismissive (the bolded part especially), while also shirking his own responsibilities in having and open and healthy relationship with his own children - this is not your fault.

 

What concerns me more than the bolded part is the idea that you should consider why you want to get back in the family. Blood is blood - there is a difference between not being part of a social circle that includes family and not being family. That you are apparently considered out is cause for concern. As I said before, it demonstrates that they will either pretend that what they don't like does not exist or matter or alternatively rely on or put the pressure on so it will be removed for them. Everything I'm seeing here shows a stubborn unwillingness to acknowledge the problem, let alone deal with it. The fact that he mentions winning suggests he considers this a fight - you either win or lose. I'm sincerely doubting there is any intention to compromise or attempt to make peace on their part. It's pretty thinly veiled as a "my way or the highway" type ultimatum and trying to get them to consider otherwise is probably a very, very long road. I truly I hope I'm wrong, however, and in any case I wish you all the best in this situation. I'm in a similar position as your wife with my inlaws and I know it's quite difficult to deal with.

[Valsuelm]

Family situations such as what you've described suck. I'm sorry you're having one.

 

Some general advice.

 

Avoid emails. Face to face communication is the way to go if at all possible. Second to that, get on the phone, or if everyone has it maybe something such as Skype. Electronic text can be cold and easily misinterpreted, especially if the reader is already emotionally charged in some way or is being told something they weren't expecting to hear or may not like haering. The normal parts of communication that would alleviate such emotion, like a smile, certain tone of voice, body language, etc are not found in emails. It's often not as bad as people think.

 

When it comes to electronic media people can sometimes also tend to write things they'd not say to someone's face. That's not good. A good general rule of thumb when it comes to communicating is if you can't say it to someone's face, you more than likely shouldn't be saying/writing it.

 

Avoid 'professional' help. Not only will it be a waste of money, If you or anyone else goes that route and heeds the advice given chances are some relationships are going to be kaputt for good. Whatever your problems are, it's best to work them out for yourselves for better or worse. I've seen nothing good come out of anyone ever going to a 'professional'. You're better off getting some advice from a random old person in a nursing home, sitting on a bar stool, or in a forum such as this (I'll note though, that a forum such as this is electronic communication.... lots is lost that wouldn't be if you were looking into the eyes of whomever you were speaking to). Really though, if you're looking for advice turn to a friend or another family member if you have one that is the kind of person that will tell you something you may not want to hear if it's the truth (these people are not common).

 

As for specifics to your situation. It's pretty obvious to me that there's a lot more to the story, and I don't know anyone involved so I really can't give much solid advice other than the general advice I'm giving. I wouldn't be angry if I were you. Yes, your father may have said some things you don't like, and he may even be wrong, but he's attempting to tell you how he's viewing a situation. That's not something to get angry about. Be thankful he's even writing you about this, more and more people these days don't take the time to write.

 

Don't have any kids suffer due to adults squabbles in your family. Exchange the gifts. The holidays are supposed to be a time for healing, or at the very least putting differences aside to come together.

 

Also, It seems to me from reading your post that you don't live near your parents? If that's the case, go visit them. If you do live near them, go see them more often. Sit down and talk to them. Then after you do that, sit down and talk to them with your wife. Don't let the avoidance of confrontation be the death of your relationship with them (all too many people go this route), and don't let confrontation destroy your relationships (don't let yourself get angry).

 

Give full disclosure to your wife, tell her everything (you should always do that, a relationship without complete honesty is either a going to be dead one or a superficial one), but do it as diplomatically as possible. If she gets angry then she may indeed have an issue. If what your father says is true and she does come off as a 'know it all', then she is part of the problem. You shouldn't have to choose between her and your family though. Your wife just may need to work on her social skills a bit more (many of us do from time to time).

 

Pride can be the biggest enemy in situations such as these. Many people do not have it within them to admit they or someone they care about is wrong (blind loyalty is not a virtue), were/are and ass@#*(, or that someone they don't like might be right.

 

Finally. If there's any bit of advice you should heed, and I can't stress this enough. Go and talk to your parents face to face, and don't let yourself get angry. If they get angry, ride out their wrath. Stay calm and rational (hard at times I know). And if at first you don't succeed, try try again. Your relationship with your wife, your parents, and your children's relationship with their grandparents is worth it.

[AGX-17]

Tell your wife to be less obnoxious.

[Bos_hybrid]

Is it possible that all the (minor) issues are just smoke and mirrors and that the problem was that they had judged your wife from day one due to her background as a showgirl (amongst other things)? Followed then by ten years of actively trying to find faults because of that pre-judgement?

 

I say this because of your comment about bible verses and such - while not necessarily an indicator of their conservatism or even prudishness, it may be that the deck was loaded from the start.

 

I was thinking the same thing. I doubt your wife brings it up all that often, to me just from that letter, it sounds like they don't like/approve your wife's previous occupation. If so, that is their problem and not your wife's. Sometimes pre-judgements like this can build up over time and lead to blowing other things out of proportion.

 

Other comments like 'get back in the family' and 'just to win' would really rub me the wrong way. He seems to think that it's down to him or you winning or losing, not understanding that he has already lost. Eventually he will see that and come back.

 

It's just generally disappointing to see trouble/angst from such a non-issue. An all too often occurrence in families.

 

But like others have said, don't punish your children for you families mistake. Let them receive their grandparents presents, they aren't old enough to understand yet. They'll just think their grandparents don't care.

Edited December 22, 2012 by Bos_hybrid

[Hurlshort]

I did change my mind on the presents after reading everyone's posts. You folks are right and it was good to get a perspective that wasn't as emotional as my own.

 

My children are 2 and 5, so they aren't quite old enough to understand much of anything about the situation. They already didn't have much of a relationship with my parents, we only saw them a few times a year when things were good (well, when I was under the assumption that things were good.) I will take equal responsibility for that, although I have always felt my parents were less than interested in getting to know my children. They've never asked to have them over or anything like that. I always assumed it was because they have 7 other grandchildren, but after this stuff with my wife went down, I'm guessing there was more to it than that.

 

Frankly my mom has always been cold with the women in my life. My first girlfriend, my wife, and now possibly my daughter. It's odd and I'm not sure how to explain it.

 

 

This has strengthened my relationship with my wife, which I didn't even think was possible because we are pretty dang tight. But it has also made me appreciate her parents, who always accepted me unconditionally (despite my many personality quirks!) and all my other close friends. I've been letting them know that regularly at this point.

 

Oh yeah, I appreciate all of you too. This is remarkably helpful and I know I keep saying it, but you guys are all awesome.

[Guest The Architect]

I'm a psychology student.

 

My advice is to post pictures of your wife during her showgirl days. You've got one hour.

 

That'll be $250 thanks.

[Wrath of Dagon]

If they have a problem with your wife, that's their problem. Don't make other people's problems your own and don't pick fights when you don't have to.

[Hurlshort]

I'm a psychology student.

 

My advice is to post pictures of your wife during her showgirl days. You've got one hour.

 

That'll be $250 thanks.

 

Shoot, all I have are these VHS cassettes! Sorry about that.

[Rostere]

To be honest, your dad does not sound very angry about your wife, only very uninterested in her company. Obviously he is not angry about something specific, but instead complains about her personality - clearly this entire business needs no apologies from either side, the underlying problem is rather that her personality doesn't fit well with your father's (and perhaps also with other parts of your family).

 

Your dad's "description" of your wife reminds me about a crazy ex- girlfriend of mine - with the difference that she was much worse If you do love her I think you should hold on to her and not try to "change her personality", which, if I dare guess, would only be harmful to your relationship.

 

Just remember that all people don't get along very well. If you think that meeting with other parts of your family has a purpose in itself, you should continue doing so with the knowledge of which attitudes are OK and which are not appreciated by everybody. Like I stated earlier, clearly your father is not angry about anything, he's just stating that he doesn't like part of your wife's personality. Whatever you do, don't get angry about anything yourself, that's my best advice.

 

I hope everything turns out well in the end. Also, you're very brave for posting this on an internet forum

[Calax]

I hope everything turns out well in the end. Also, you're very brave for posting this on an internet forum

I think the majority of WOT'ers are significantly tighter knit than most forums. And we've all been here a few years for the most part (I WON THE LOTTERY! WOOOOO!)

[Rostere]

I hope everything turns out well in the end. Also, you're very brave for posting this on an internet forum

I think the majority of WOT'ers are significantly tighter knit than most forums. And we've all been here a few years for the most part (I WON THE LOTTERY! WOOOOO!)

 

Well. I've been on here since 2007 but I usually only ever raise hell in the political threads in WOT, so I guess I miss out on the entire bonding process going on in the movie, music, and hockey threads...

[Guard Dog]

Hey Hurlie, I know I'm a little late to the dance here but I second what most folks here are saying. Out of context it dies sound like petty things to take offense over. So she's a little brash? Maybe even a little loud. They don't have to live with her and you're obviously happy so what's their problem? Letting contact cool off a bit is the right way to go I guess. I's ask your parents what kind of remedy do they want here? She is who she is and that isn't going to change and she isn't going anywhere. So they can either accept her or break off contact. That might give them a little perspective at least.

 

I never had this issue so I really don't have much insight. My wife loved my parents, it was ME she had a problem with!

[Meshugger]

Uhm, is your dad overexaggerating when he says that:

 

1) Your wife never asks questions and only wants to school people

2) Never says thank you

3) Never or rarely takes initiative to ask the extended family over to dinner, which leaves you to organize the whole thing?

 

Sounds too easy since that would only require her to be less rude and make people feel welcomed to your house. Is there more going on here that i have missed somehow?

 

P.S. As everyone else said, leave the kids outside of it.

[Azure79]

Sorry to hear about family problems, especially during the holidays. Being a single guy with no kids (Phew!) I don't feel qualified to give any kind of family advice (of course I will anyway though), but from the letter it does seem that your father took offense to something that isn't that big of a deal. As Tigs said though a lot of things look petty from the outside but if those are the two stories he chose to write about in a serious letter to his son, it probably is more of a personality clash and there are deeper underlying issues. And that's totally understandable since everyone has people they don't get along with, but the problem is that you guys are family now.

 

I would say to stand by your wife. Let her know you're in her corner. It's pretty clear you love her and get along with her. I wouldn't compromise the family you and your wife have created in order to maintain a strained relationship with your existing family, who it seems you by yourself have strained relations with. Please correct me if I'm wrong on that part. Let your parents and siblings know that you still love them and maintain communications but show them that you're happy as well, with a loving wife and two cool kids. Let them come to you.

 

Also convert VHS tapes of wife's showgirl days into digital format and upload please.

[kirottu]

Also convert VHS tapes of wife's showgirl days into digital format and upload please.

 

Yes, i think this would a crucial step for Hurlshot's family's well being.

[mkreku]

Hey, Hurlshot, I have some spare time. Give me your dads address and I'll head over and slap him silly. I know it is only one letter, but.. he really comes off as an incredibly petty and intolerant person. And all those little jabs at you? Wtf is that all about?

 

Also..

 

Boobs?

['GM']

Oh man... I haven't read all the responses, just simply don't have the time, but....

 

Families, imo, are made up of unique individuals. Thank God we don't all act and behave the same. How boring that would be. Your wife is simply another gem in the family pot of jewels. Gosh, what's so bad about her comments? If we had someone raised in a vineyard in our family we'd want to know all about it. We'd want to know all about her showgirl background. That would be fantastic to hear about.

 

I have 4 sister in laws, each one unique, and none of them come from a background like mine. Yet I love each and every one of them. And my boyfriend/fiance comes from a quiet small family in Arizona. To meet my family was like being shot out of a cannon for him. He literally didn't know what the hell to think of our loud gang. But, after getting to know him my parents adore him.... my brothers get along great with him, yet he is nothing like any of them.

 

You know Hurlshot, you might have to be the pivot here. Turn those 'offensive' comments into a new conversation opening. I don't know if counseling is the thing here. That's like saying that yeah, there's a big problem when maybe all it is is that nobody is including her into discussions or whatever. Maybe they don't know how to turn her comments into a new channel of conversation.

[Hurlshort]

Uhm, is your dad overexaggerating when he says that:

 

1) Your wife never asks questions and only wants to school people

2) Never says thank you

3) Never or rarely takes initiative to ask the extended family over to dinner, which leaves you to organize the whole thing?

 

Sounds too easy since that would only require her to be less rude and make people feel welcomed to your house. Is there more going on here that i have missed somehow?

 

P.S. As everyone else said, leave the kids outside of it.

 

Sorry it took awhile to respond to these questions, I was on vacation and it can be hard to think about, let alone discuss. The short answer is yes, he is clearly exaggerating. I have a good example that I have tried to use with him, and I will share it with you guys.

 

About a year ago, we had my parents over for dinner. When they arrived, my wife noticed that we had very little wine in the house, and my dad is a big wine guy. We have a winery just down the street from our house, and so she asked my father if he would like to go with her and pick something out there. I thought this was a great idea, it gave my father a chance to do something he enjoys and I thought it might be a nice moment for him and my wife to share together. Of course she paid for the bottle, so that should not have offended him.

 

I brought this up when he was listing all the character flaws of my wife, and his take on the story was very different. First, he says as a host we should have already had the wine. Then he said it was inconsiderate that he had to leave the gathering and go with my wife. Lastly, he said the winery was not really that good (which is a bit crazy, this is a winery that has existed since 1925 and is quite famous.)

 

I was flabbergasted by this response. It just showed me how different our perspectives are. I really have no idea how to guide someone into seeing the good in somebody, so I'm really at a loss. I believe Azure's advice about letting them come to me is sound, I have tried to reach out and bridge gaps, find common ground, etc. but it doesn't seem to be working. So I'll give it time and hope that either they come to their senses or I think about them less often.

[Gorth]

Sorry to say Hurlshot, but that doesn't sound like 'different perspective'... that sounds like 'mind set in stone' and will twist any event to fit a particular worldview. Well, we don't always get to chose our family, but it seems like you made the right choice with your wife (she obviously means the world to you)

 

[Shryke]

from what small context we have here, to be blunt it just seems like your dad is a total uptight ****

 

"as a host" should you have wiped his *** for him too?

shined his shoes?

and don't tell me you had the temerity to make him drive himself?!

no chauffeur?! bah!

[Calax]

I think your dad is a little unreasonable on his expectations overall. And the Wine thing sounds less like an actual complaint after he responded with that story, and morel like he's hunting for excuses. Similarly the "host should think of that before!" bs, is also a bit of an insult to you because A) he was asked to go, and said yes and B) You're also technically the host for that too.

 

Let him come to you, but don't let him play up your wifes fault and downplay his own failures (which he seems to TOTALLY be doing). As painful as it might be, he still should understand that at least some of his actions are not acceptable, particularly if he chooses to continue to be social with your family beyond 3 day visits for the grandkids.