Dialog mostly voiced?

[Sylvanpyxie]

I can understand why some people might prefer to have a fully voice game, or even partially voiced game, but I love to read and I love to let my imagination run wild with the dialogue in the game. I disliked the voices in Neverwinter Nights 2 because I felt as though the voice actors didn't quite capture the personality of the characters as well as my imagination could have.

 

Maybe it's just because I read so much and my imagination likes to run on overdrive, but I much prefer the opportunity to imprint my own reactions upon the dialogue. I can't do that with a lot of voiced lines, and I find that it truly restricts my enjoyment of a game. A voice actor will never be able to live up to the expectations of my imagination. It also doesn't help that, in my personal experience, an over abundance of voiced characters tends to leave far less dialogue content as a whole. Whether that's because of resource restrictions and the cost of voice actors, or simply because of lazy writers, I don't know. But I much prefer to have as little voiced dialogue as possible, especially if it gives me not only a large number of dialogue options, but also a larger in-depth view of the characters.

 

Of course, that's just me, and other people will obviously prefer to have as much voiced as possible, but for me, personally, voice actors will never be able to compare to the emotion and the depth of my own imagination.

Edited December 1, 2012 by Sylvanpyxie

[Alexjh]

I think the key is definitly having important characters voiced and some general background noise, I'm quite happy to pad it out using a fake language as it gives the setting some tone. I think Icewind Dale 2 got it more or less right, though I seem to recall one or two characters who could have maybe done with being voiced (Islebah, Shawford Crale and a few more) but in general it got the gist right.

 

I'd actually go slightly further and say I'd quite like a few Infinity Engine alumni to lend their talents, not in anything too self referential, but these were games with really good voice acting so I'd like to hear some of them again.

[jezz555]

 

And ultimately, Project Eternity is a niche game. It's a niche game, a gloves-off old-school CRPG for smart people who like tactical play and intelligent textual content. It's a niche game that required a Kickstarter. For anyone who wants a full/mostly VO-ed "movie game," the current market is full of them. Have at that and leave this one alone.

 

 

I didn't suggest a "movie game" there don't need to be cut-scenes or whatever, I don't want this to be dragon age. I said specifically "as much as possible" because I think it helps the most important lines of dialogue feel important. Not "everything has to be voiced", I didn't say that. And this was never going to be a text-based game either, so don't act like V/O is something that's alien to classical rpgs or somehow overdone and a pointless addition for common plebs.

 

Obsidian will obviously use as much as they feel they feasibly can, I doubt their going to waste too much money on V/O either way. But one of the reasons Arcanum is my favourite of the crpgs, is because I feel that they kept dialogue engaging by not having huge walls of text and utilizing voice acting at important points to aid in characterization and comprehension. For some reason people on this forum always seem to like to jump to either polar extreme as if that's supposed to invalidate someone's argument, nowhere in my post did I say a "movie game" so lets put that idea to rest right now.

Edited December 1, 2012 by jezz555

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

I hope that PE is extremely light on voice acting. It doesn't add any actual content to the game, so I think that it is pointless.

[Osvir]

A voice is still something tangible, even if it is only a grunt. I'd like to see myself as a good reader, the voice is just as much an instrument as the written word is. I'd prefer something like Baldur's Gate sound sets and for more important important characters but I'd really be fine with only text.

 

*Thunders and sparkles of light erupted from his mouth as he spoke, his voice echoing across the vale as the ominous cloud drew closer engulfing the giant looking down upon you, then for you* <- sounds pretty awesome in my head, does it for you as well? If not, an actual beaming voice would make it easier to project the setting and atmosphere, the tone, I wish to put on the situation.

 

I'd like to see a mix and match but I think that Sylvanpyxie and KaineParker are right on point.

 

Gorion: "We are in an ambush" wouldn't have been the same with only text.

Edited December 2, 2012 by Osvir

[Agelastos]

I'm hoping for about the same amount of VO as in Mask of the Betrayer. All the major NPCs had full VO (unlike the IE games where they usually just had a few lines of VO per conversation), but all other NPCs were completely "mute".

Edited December 2, 2012 by Agelastos

[LordsWeapon]

What I'm really looking for, and BTW thanks for the input everyone , is at least having all npc's with voiced dialog the first time that you encounter them, this concept was very weak in games like IWD and BG as someone mentioned above more than a few npc's in those titles should of had their initial meeting voiced. "Initial meeting only" voice design on all important and some secondary npc's would give the player a solid more realistic foundation to work with in their own imagination when trying to evaluate an npc's position and personality in the world and will help aid the player in making hopefully numerous text response selections...

 

NOOOO i do not want total voice overs, had enough of that with DA and definalty want PE to stay as ole school as possible

 

thanks again for all the input poeple, GodSpeed Devs!!!!

[obsidiansquid]

 

 

There is a good compromise in games. The purpose of partially voiced lines like in Baldur's Gate is to provide initial mood and the "vocal pitch" of a character. But it takes far less time and money for the studio to rely on the reader to extrapolate. And little effort on the reader's part--at least, a player who likes to read and is good at it.

 

And ultimately, Project Eternity is a niche game. It's a niche game, a gloves-off old-school CRPG for smart people who like tactical play and intelligent textual content. It's a niche game that required a Kickstarter. For anyone who wants a full/mostly VO-ed "movie game," the current market is full of them. Have at that and leave this one alone.

 

 

Couldn't agree more. I remember dialog being more involved and engaging when I was reading it. I think the main reason for this is that when everything is fully VO-ed you simply can't afford to have long, lengthy, engaging dialog (a la Planescape) without paying an arm and a leg AND/OR running into really bad voice acting. When it's mostly written, well.. the sky is the limit, and it really keeps the game much more creatively fresh.

[AGX-17]

No, voiceovers cost money, and like Avellone pointed out, once the dialogue is recorded, you can't go back and change the script because of the cost and time and logistical problems implicit in re-doing a recorded dialogue. I have no problem with few/no voices in PE.

Edited December 2, 2012 by AGX-17

[Dream]

Gorion: "We are in an ambush" wouldn't have been the same with only text.

 

I'll agree with you there. Key lines from important characters (or even bit ones) should be voiced ("what can change the nature of a man?").

 

As for the rest of it, text is the way to go; both for budget and greater depth concerns.

[Giantevilhead]

Is adding voice overs really that expensive if they don't use big name or expensive (voice) actors?

 

They don't necessarily need to hire the most well known voice actors like Ron Perlman, Kevin Michael Richardson, Phil Lamarr, Tricia Helfer, Jennifer Hale, etc.

 

There are plenty of talented young or new (voice) actors out there.

Edited December 2, 2012 by Giantevilhead

[Felithvian]

Is adding voice overs really that expensive if they don't use big name or expensive (voice) actors?

 

They don't necessarily need to hire the most well known voice actors like Ron Perlman, Kevin Michael Richardson, Phil Lamarr, Tricia Helfer, Jennifer Hale, etc.

 

There are plenty of talented young or new (voice) actors out there.

 

They don't need to hire ANYONE at all. For God's sake, give me Microsoft's Sound Recorder and I'll create a bunch of wav files for the game. Make it believable and sincere, add some persistence and anyone will break into the voice over field. It simply takes desire and passion to voice a character.

[Ieo]

Is adding voice overs really that expensive if they don't use big name or expensive (voice) actors?

 

They don't necessarily need to hire the most well known voice actors like Ron Perlman, Kevin Michael Richardson, Phil Lamarr, Tricia Helfer, Jennifer Hale, etc.

 

There are plenty of talented young or new (voice) actors out there.

 

They don't need to hire ANYONE at all. For God's sake, give me Microsoft's Sound Recorder and I'll create a bunch of wav files for the game. Make it believable and sincere, add some persistence and anyone will break into the voice over field. It simply takes desire and passion to voice a character.

 

You missed the entire point about schedule in the quote--if VO has to be locked down months ahead of time, that's like late 2013 or something. It's already December 2012. Even ignoring translation issues... For god's sake, in the time it takes some amateur to do a take and retake and retake of a dozen lines along with post-processing (and dealing with differing quality recordings unless Obsidian decides to fly all these "free" amateurs in to use the same high-quality equipment) and waiting for timezone differences, maybe Avellone could've written 2-3 full pages already.

 

Given a choice between that? I'd rather shoot the would-be "free" voice actor.

 

As fan-made mods, I wouldn't have a problem with it. Generic soundsets after production would be fine. But for all or most of the characters in the game during production? Don't ask Obsidian to waste more time on a tight schedule to early 2014. Partial VO for the initial mood and carriage is good enough and the best compromise available to the gaming industry.

 

More reading:

Steve: How will you handle voice acting? Will it be limited to cut scenes, main characters, non-existent or somewhere in between?

 

Feargus: We want to give our designers a free hand when it comes to writing dialog, which means we are going to have to limit how much of that will have voice acting attached to it. Our goal is to have a lot of the critical dialog voiced along with things like greetings and important things that the companions have to say.

 

ObsoleteGamer.com: Do you plan on making voice-overs for most of the dialogue in the game?

 

Avellone: We plan on doing what most of the BG and IWD series did and only have limited VO for NPCs and companions. We don’t want to do a fully voiced game, as that comes with a number of technical hurdles that limit iteration, and that’s one of the things we wanted to do differently with this project… the ability to make a larger range of reactive text (like we did with New Reno in Fallout 2, for example – the only limit to this kind of reactivity is the cost for VO and localization). Limiting the VO also allows for any necessary changes during the final months of a project without the huge costs involved with altering VO and doing pick-ups.

 

On the money side, applicable for professionals (pasted for posterity so I can find it again later):

Nick K: “Voice over, I know it’s early but, what are you planning?”

 

Feargus Urquhart: “With voice over we’re going to follow the style of the Infinity Engine games in that key lines get VO(voice over). Often greetings and voice sets for, you know, charging into battle and stuff like that but not every single line of dialogue. Not every peasant will have full VO dialogue and even not all main characters will be fully voiced all the way through. In part because we have to be very cognizant of how much money we would have to spend and we want to spend it right. If we would try to voice like, 400,000 words it would be $400,000-$600,000. How much of our budget would we really want to spend on it? We still want VOs, because it sets the mood but we’re going to use it wisely.”

 

(And, uh, mere sincerity and eagerness do not a quality contribution make. There are plenty of people who sing off-key who'd love to "contribute" to various projects too--no offense, but no thanks.)

[LordsWeapon]

Is adding voice overs really that expensive if they don't use big name or expensive (voice) actors?

 

They don't necessarily need to hire the most well known voice actors like Ron Perlman, Kevin Michael Richardson, Phil Lamarr, Tricia Helfer, Jennifer Hale, etc.

 

There are plenty of talented young or new (voice) actors out there.

 

They don't need to hire ANYONE at all. For God's sake, give me Microsoft's Sound Recorder and I'll create a bunch of wav files for the game. Make it believable and sincere, add some persistence and anyone will break into the voice over field. It simply takes desire and passion to voice a character.

 

Agreed Fel, but without the voice being "believable and sincere" it would then be useless and a waste of time and money thus making it very important to pick voice actors that have some experience in the field and not just any wannabe

 

Ok, ok back to my tenth play through of IWD2, I know, i know only 10 in 12 years but I do have a life outside of the ten towns...

 

Not Really 8(

[Dragoonlordz]

I do not want the protaganist voiced, I also prefer VO limited to some main NPCs during important events and not all NPCs voiced.

[jezz555]

I do not want the protaganist voiced,

 

Probably don't have to worry about this one. I don't think any of us want another Hawke.

[teknoman2]

It is going to be 100% mostly voiced over like Baldur's Gate.

 

As they aren't hiring any voice actors (or are they?) I am wondering who is going to do the voices. Will Josh, Adam, Chris, Tim all take the helm in front of the microphone and do VO for the game? Who would be who? Will we see green shirt girl doing Cadegund perhaps?

 

I'll say like I said before when this topic popped up. If Obsidian would ask for it (which would have to be done well before any recording even starts) fans could/would provide material I am sure (definitely a Wild Card still!!). All you need is a good recording device and some know how (how to record your voice to not make it all bad) and also know your way around an audio editting software. I used Audacity (freeware) for the BG sound sets I made. Garageband is much more fun though I also have a studio in my living room.

 

I made... 2 sound sets for Baldur's Gate that I managed to make sound as if they were part of the core game (volume just right, a well thought out script as well, no fuzzy sound or any sparks. Clean sounding).

why would they hire actors when they havent even written the script yet?

[Osvir]

why would they hire actors when they havent even written the script yet?

 

???

 

EDIT: I don't know how to answer this question because I don't know how you came to the conclusion of asking that question. Where did I say anything about hiring anyone any time soon?

Edited December 2, 2012 by Osvir

[Death Machine Miyagi]

Is adding voice overs really that expensive if they don't use big name or expensive (voice) actors?

 

They don't necessarily need to hire the most well known voice actors like Ron Perlman, Kevin Michael Richardson, Phil Lamarr, Tricia Helfer, Jennifer Hale, etc.

 

There are plenty of talented young or new (voice) actors out there.

 

They don't need to hire ANYONE at all. For God's sake, give me Microsoft's Sound Recorder and I'll create a bunch of wav files for the game. Make it believable and sincere, add some persistence and anyone will break into the voice over field. It simply takes desire and passion to voice a character.

 

The problem is, most of the voice acting I've heard for mods (that is, amateur voice acting) ranges from the sub-par to the atrocious. Meant to draw me in, it instead takes (mostly) perfectly decent written text and makes it impossible to take seriously.

 

A David Warner can do a Jon Irenicus. A Tony Jay can do a Transcendent One. They have (well, had, in poor Mr. Jay's case) the voices for it and the talent for it. Get a random schmoe off the street to try and do those characters and you don't enhance the experience. Quite often, you ruin it, and the written text alone would have been far more powerful than the hammy crap you get served instead.

 

Quality voice actors seem surprisingly hard to come by.

[AwesomeOcelot]

Voice acting is a hard skill and requires talent, there's loads and loads of games with bad voice acting, under 20 games where I thought the voice acting was great. Using actors because of their screen roles is incredibly stupid, but if a game's going to have voice actors, the well known ones are usually that way because they're good. There's plenty of talent about but even if they're relatively cheap, studio time isn't, and even seasoned pros need quite a lot of time and guidance. Casting also costs money.

[Osvir]

The general idea seems to be:

 

Well known actors are good.

Not so known actors are good.

An actor you've never heard before but is an actor by profession. Works.

 

Some nobody, not so good at all.

 

There has to be something in the portfolio. "I'm the king of the world!" doesn't really say too much if I don't have any proof to back it up with, and it has to be good proof too that someone else thinks is good too. The internet is a cruel place, so many people don't think its worth trying (the really good unknown voice actors) because of confidence, which rules many actions in life.

 

I'll be back later in this thread when or if I've done a sound set for BGEE.

[Jojobobo]

VTMB's voice acting is pretty top notch, and plenty of the characters have very memorable lines. Even so I don't know important it is to have characters in an isometric game fully voice acted - the fact is if they did they may have to re-use certain voice actors for certain bystander characters which to me makes a game less immersive. Voice acting should IMO be used in a game like this either for main characters, or for characters where the devs feel like a distinctive voice could convey something about their character that visuals and description could not (for example Cicero in Skyrim or Gary for VTMB are both characters that wouldn't be the same without their voice actors).

[Dream]

Is adding voice overs really that expensive if they don't use big name or expensive (voice) actors?

 

They don't necessarily need to hire the most well known voice actors like Ron Perlman, Kevin Michael Richardson, Phil Lamarr, Tricia Helfer, Jennifer Hale, etc.

 

There are plenty of talented young or new (voice) actors out there.

 

Look at SWTOR and tell me VO is cheap.

 

 

They don't need to hire ANYONE at all. For God's sake, give me Microsoft's Sound Recorder and I'll create a bunch of wav files for the game. Make it believable and sincere, add some persistence and anyone will break into the voice over field. It simply takes desire and passion to voice a character.

 

It's not that easy; there's a reason VOs exist and every company doesn't just get the staff to do it.

[Giantevilhead]

Is adding voice overs really that expensive if they don't use big name or expensive (voice) actors?

 

They don't necessarily need to hire the most well known voice actors like Ron Perlman, Kevin Michael Richardson, Phil Lamarr, Tricia Helfer, Jennifer Hale, etc.

 

There are plenty of talented young or new (voice) actors out there.

 

Look at SWTOR and tell me VO is cheap.

 

SWTOR is full of well known voice actors like Jennifer Hale, Nolan North, Grey DeLisle, Steve Blum, etc., who are veterans in the industry.

 

I specifically said that they could look for newer voice actors who aren't as expensive.

 

While it is true that voice acting requires a lot of talent and skill, I don't think good voice actors are as hard to find as people think. Look at Bastion, the narrator for that game was virtually unknown and he did a great job. There's a lot of untapped talent out there in every field. You can find artists who are as good as professionals on deviant art. You can find great writers on blogs and fan fic sites. You can find very talented comedians, actors, voice actors on youtube.

[lolaldanee]

I do not want the protaganist voiced,

 

Probably don't have to worry about this one. I don't think any of us want another Hawke.

 

you think wrongly then

while you may be right that many people on this board will share this opinion, i for one, and i'm sure i'm not alone on this, think that few things can lift a game up as much as a well voiced main character

the mentioned dragon age 2 (at least the female hawke, which i played), aquanox2 and alpha protocol are only some examples that profited massively from well voiced main characters

on the contrary, i would say the missing voice acting for the main char in games like dishonored and dragon age 1 is those games greatest flaw

 

 

on the point that a community can't do good voice acting, go and play this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tlo_5U6fqqw

Edited December 3, 2012 by lolaldanee