Clichés you WANT to see in Project Eternity

[jezz555]

Honestly none I can really think of. Not to say that everything in PE has to be original, but most cliches are bad, and I would prefer PE surprise me with something that hasn't been done before.

 

To quote myself from this thread:

 

Well, I think we should never forget that clichées are a big part of storytelling. At least that's what I've learned from my journalistics lectures. Clichées work because they are very strong images and most of those clichés move in an area (storytellingwise), in frames as we call them.

So many conflicts in modern storytelling work because there's an archetype for many different conflict situations and characters. Good examples for frames are Robin Hood or David vs. Goliath. Clichées give us something to hold on, to orient ourselves in "known waters" so we know what's going on. Real exoticism only works for a few parts, maybe to create the mystery (and even then the exoticism is kind of a clichée).

In media linguistics there's also a thing called priming - so different terms are being primed in a setting, so we can distinguish and understand - for example the word thread has many meanings. If we are in a forum it's clear we talk about a "topic" and not a thread used for sewing. Of course that's a bit abstract but this is actually how it works en détail. I may be wrong - this is only first and second semester stuff of journalistic storytelling, so don't sue me if I'm not entirely correct

 

Maybe an easier way to explain this, is in a LARP setting. In LARPs (at least in Europe) are many people who play overly exotic characters from an even more exotic race and ultra-complicated storys. Those characters never stick with you. The most successful characters I've seen in LARPs are the easiest ones. Maybe a simple peasant, or a normal (well, normal...) Landsknecht. They were not cliché charaters at all, but they played in a certain frame that made it easy to comprehend this character.

 

That's a fair point and I agree with you. But I would say there is a difference between something that's iconic and something that's cliche, if that makes any sense. Elves, Dwarves, dragons ect. I would say are fantasy icons, not fantasy cliches. A cliche version would be magicky effeminate elves, drunk bearded dwarves and gold hoarding evil dragons. Not that theirs anything wrong with these cliches (who doesn't love tolkein?) but a more original take on this would be say, tough, barbarian, magick hating elves, magical, beardless, dwarves, and kind giving dragons which sounds pretty dumb to be fair, but it would be an original take on some fantasy icons as opposed to the cliche, which again is fine too, I'm just saying.

[Death Machine Miyagi]

Honestly none I can really think of. Not to say that everything in PE has to be original, but most cliches are bad, and I would prefer PE surprise me with something that hasn't been done before.

 

I said this in the earlier thread, but I think the word 'cliche' is inherently negative. The implication is that its overused to the point of being dull and uninteresting. There are no good cliches, by definition.

 

The word we should be using for 'good' cliches is 'tropes.' A trope can be good or it can be bad. Its simply a commonly seen pattern in a work of fiction, one you can expect to be recognized. It does not carry any inherent connotation of being dull and uninteresting.

[Sacred_Path]

- Grumpy dwarves who are shrewd traders with axes

 

- Tree hugging elves who are given to magic and frivolous enjoyment, also bows

 

- Empires of enterprising humans who must make up for their short... life spans (swine!)

 

- WIzards with starry robes, because you know that's what you'd wear to a dungeon romp

 

- Wizards in towers

 

- Feared and respected wizards

 

- Characters that can be hit in the head with an axe for a prolonged period of time because they're level 12

 

- Magic being a powerful, one-shot affair

 

- Noble savages

 

- Savage nobles

 

- Sullen rangers

 

- short folk that must always be jolly and/ or friendly

 

- tavern wenches

 

 

It's not that I really want to see those, but that's how I imagine them to turn out in the end.

[bonarbill]

Needs token black guy that can liven the party up by cracking jokes and being goof.

[Monte Carlo]

Yes, wizards in towers are mandatory.

 

The tower must have a three level dungeon underneath. With a water feature. With a giant crab / frog / octopus in it.

[JFSOCC]

Yes, wizards in towers are mandatory.

 

The tower must have a three level dungeon underneath. With a water feature. With a giant crab / frog / octopus in it.

Only if the wizard later comments on some of the more mundane features with pride. "I designed the fountain myself!" (while discussing a level where the fountain, while pretty, was the least of your worries.)

--

Well, I'm not a big fan of clichés but I'm ok with some mentioned here.

Personally, I like having travelling entertainers who tell stories well, juggle and dance and make music in all the (better) inns in town.

Traps in dungeons that withstood the ages and are still in perfect working order- No problem with those. because, magic, right?

And I do actually like the "kick-ass" girls. Frail looking things that somehow manage to be powerful.

[mokona]

Q: Clichés you WANT to see in Project Eternity?

 

A: Dungeons & Dragons

[Sacred_Path]

- befouling the gods' names has very real consequences

 

- maces against the undead!!!1!

 

- you wouldn't believe the things people carry in their pockets.

[centurionofprix]

The hardass Xena warrior woman. Don't mind the chain bikini either.

Edited November 5, 2012 by centurionofprix

[AlphaShard]

Honestly none I can really think of. Not to say that everything in PE has to be original, but most cliches are bad, and I would prefer PE surprise me with something that hasn't been done before.

 

To quote myself from this thread:

 

Well, I think we should never forget that clichées are a big part of storytelling. At least that's what I've learned from my journalistics lectures. Clichées work because they are very strong images and most of those clichés move in an area (storytellingwise), in frames as we call them.

So many conflicts in modern storytelling work because there's an archetype for many different conflict situations and characters. Good examples for frames are Robin Hood or David vs. Goliath. Clichées give us something to hold on, to orient ourselves in "known waters" so we know what's going on. Real exoticism only works for a few parts, maybe to create the mystery (and even then the exoticism is kind of a clichée).

In media linguistics there's also a thing called priming - so different terms are being primed in a setting, so we can distinguish and understand - for example the word thread has many meanings. If we are in a forum it's clear we talk about a "topic" and not a thread used for sewing. Of course that's a bit abstract but this is actually how it works en détail. I may be wrong - this is only first and second semester stuff of journalistic storytelling, so don't sue me if I'm not entirely correct

 

Maybe an easier way to explain this, is in a LARP setting. In LARPs (at least in Europe) are many people who play overly exotic characters from an even more exotic race and ultra-complicated storys. Those characters never stick with you. The most successful characters I've seen in LARPs are the easiest ones. Maybe a simple peasant, or a normal (well, normal...) Landsknecht. They were not cliché charaters at all, but they played in a certain frame that made it easy to comprehend this character.

 

That's a fair point and I agree with you. But I would say there is a difference between something that's iconic and something that's cliche, if that makes any sense. Elves, Dwarves, dragons ect. I would say are fantasy icons, not fantasy cliches. A cliche version would be magicky effeminate elves, drunk bearded dwarves and gold hoarding evil dragons. Not that theirs anything wrong with these cliches (who doesn't love tolkein?) but a more original take on this would be say, tough, barbarian, magick hating elves, magical, beardless, dwarves, and kind giving dragons which sounds pretty dumb to be fair, but it would be an original take on some fantasy icons as opposed to the cliche, which again is fine too, I'm just saying.

The east (Asian) Dragons were kind and benevolent creatures that would often help people. So the concept isn't dumb or unheard of. Besides we did have a silver dragon in BG2. So I would like to see more kind Dragons.

[Dream]

Happy ****ing ending. Tired of people thinking they're being deep and artsy by ending **** on as depressing a note as possible.

[Sacred_Path]

It's always a happy ending... for someone.

[Big Bottom]

Zombies.

[Gelp]

I want helping out people in-game to make a difference. So you saved the merchant's life? He gave you an old enchanted helmet, right? But after that he sells to you at the same rate, and he still charges you fifty gold to see his special stock every time. I want him to be genuinely grateful.

 

You saved the elven town? I want them to be available as allies when I face the final battle. And speaking of final battles...

 

I want a final battle that has a horde. Mountains of bad guys. Adamantine golems, and big nasty demons everywhere. Sure, if you're stealth specced, you may be able to sneak past them, but they're there and they're scary.

 

I don't know if the last two would fit in PE, but they're some of my favorite heroic fantasy tropes.

[kabaliero]

Happy ****ing ending. Tired of people thinking they're being deep and artsy by ending **** on as depressing a note as possible.

 

 

plus a secret traveling "drizzt" person

[nubins]

Chainmail bikini's get the vote from me, or at least the ability to craft sexy looking armour out of armour pieces like in Dragon's Dogma. Actually, i dont mind armour looking exactly as intended to be - full plate armour, but lighter armours can be mixed and matched to create a look you like on a character, with options that include sexy stuff. That way, those that dont like it, can craft something more to their taste without having to avoid any particular armour pieces and vice versa.

 

Gold in barrels.

 

A proper ending - as Dream said above, tired of pseudo religious, unclear desperate to avoid the cliche endings, they ruin your sense of investment of time in a game series if they dont draw up a proper, solid ending to it all. In other words.. i want there to be a point to it all.

[stkaye]

It's important to me that at some point I'm inducted into an ancient, near-mythical organisation or group whose members are known for their martial skill, great wisdom and mysterious powers.

 

Ideally this will happen while listening to music something like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v6PMJYoaGf8

Edited November 5, 2012 by stkaye

[jivex5k]

One dragon, just one.

He's HUGE, ancient, speaks, and is guarding a big treasure.

He asks you riddles, simply to pass the time and amuse himself.

If you answer correctly he allows you to take A SINGLE item from his cache.

If you try to take more he will attack.

If you answer wrong, he will allow you two more failures before dismissing you forever.

If you answer sarcastically you will provoke the beast.

 

You can try to persuade him into letting you have some treasure, but one wrong word and his temper flares.

 

He should be next to unbeatable and have huge amounts of physical and fire damage.

 

If you somehow manage to destroy the beast your actions are whispered about across the land. Some folk adore you, saying you rid the world of a great bane. Others felt you have contributed to the death of an ancient and holy guardian, these people will no longer be friendly, and some may outright attack you on sight.

 

Just random thoughts.

[LadyCrimson]

Is dual-wielding cliche these days? I like dual-wielding. Shields are boring.

 

...I dunno, to me everything is pretty much a cliche. It's more a matter of how you use the cliche to turn it back into something interesting.

[Pipyui]

Is dual-wielding cliche these days? I like dual-wielding. Shields are boring.

 

...I dunno, to me everything is pretty much a cliche. It's more a matter of how you use the cliche to turn it back into something interesting.

 

Agree to this. And yes, in my mind dual-wielding is cliche. Except for some very specific applications, it's little more practical than a 12 ft. katana.

Giant warhammers are impractical too though, and warhammers are awesome.

[TheTeaMustFlow]

- befouling the gods' names has very real consequences

 

On a similar note, this dialogue option.

Villain: Any last words?

PC: Just three.. Hastur Hastur Hastur!

Villain: Oh SHI-

 

Also proper arrr jimlad pirates (funky hats mandatory), theory of narrative causality, belief powered gods, a relatively nice lieutenant of the main villain working for him out of a sense of duty who can be redeemed, and incongruous oriental-ish mystical martial arts. Gimme that good ol' time weeaboo fightin' magic!

[LadyCrimson]

Is dual-wielding cliche these days? I like dual-wielding. Shields are boring.

 

...I dunno, to me everything is pretty much a cliche. It's more a matter of how you use the cliche to turn it back into something interesting.

 

Agree to this. And yes, in my mind dual-wielding is cliche. Except for some very specific applications, it's little more practical than a 12 ft. katana.

Giant warhammers are impractical too though, and warhammers are awesome.

I like dual wielding in terms of damage/speed vs. defense. Pistols, short swords, daggers, things of that nature. It's often (to me) more exciting than equipping for blocking damage etc. But I'm not sure it fits with P.E. specifically....depends what they're doing with the weapons/skills/combat stuff and all of that.

 

I don't think one should be dual-wielding long muskets or something like that. Well, since it's a game, you could, but that's not what I personally mean by dual-wielding. Teehee.

[jezz555]

One dragon, just one.

He's HUGE, ancient, speaks, and is guarding a big treasure.

He asks you riddles, simply to pass the time and amuse himself.

If you answer correctly he allows you to take A SINGLE item from his cache.

If you try to take more he will attack.

If you answer wrong, he will allow you two more failures before dismissing you forever.

If you answer sarcastically you will provoke the beast.

 

You can try to persuade him into letting you have some treasure, but one wrong word and his temper flares.

 

He should be next to unbeatable and have huge amounts of physical and fire damage.

 

If you somehow manage to destroy the beast your actions are whispered about across the land. Some folk adore you, saying you rid the world of a great bane. Others felt you have contributed to the death of an ancient and holy guardian, these people will no longer be friendly, and some may outright attack you on sight.

 

Just random thoughts.

 

I like this archetype, but If the dragon is hoarding treasure I don't see why anyone would consider him a holy guardian. Unless there's some sort of dragon cult, which could be cool too. I also wouldn't mind some sort of unique item in the dragons hoard.

[SophosTheWise]

I have just seen Josh Sawyer's rendition of The Impossible Dream from Man of La Mancha. And I totally want to see a Don Quixote character-type in PE.

[Ieo]

Adventurers for glory/chosen one/gold/etc. Maybe another party tries to get quests from you.

 

 

BONDARI RELOADS.