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Sacred_Path

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Everything posted by Sacred_Path

  1. just two things: - either increase flexibility of characters (multiclassing should have that covered) or don't include bottlenecks early on, before a party can bloom. I've had many interesting parties kick the bucket in the keep's hall. - more incentives to figure reputations into your character concept. Like, how would a character be a great diplomat, if all they have is great strength?
  2. I intended wacky to mean anything epic, larger-than-life, and by extension, supernatural. Korgan laughing in the face of every terrible monster is such an element, as is the Planar Sphere with its planar travel and its theme of atonement, or the Underdark which is obviously like a flipside or parallel world of the surface world, with its almost comically twisted inhabitants. At times all these emotions you mention come into play here, and I have to say I find this epic delivery ultimately more touching than Pillars', much like a fairy tale can be more touching than a milieu study.
  3. Allow me to remind you that this discussion on "What did mr. Sawyer mean" started with this response to my post: Sacred_Path, on 24 Aug 2016 - 12:10 PM, said: Which is where I started to try and figure out where has Josh Sawyer admitted it's a problem in the first place. Because without it, bringing up his name in the conversation is kind of pointless in the first place so I figured you probably know something I don't. It's quite obvious that when he uses the word soul but then goes on to talk about silly characters, that's not the whole truth. Humour isn't synonymous with soul. There's no need for inside information here.
  4. Yes, there's the word 'Soul' used in the presentation. There's also the word 'Silly' used in the presentation. Neither has much relevance to what you are saying or to your statement "Josh thinks he's onto something" in relation to the tone of the world and both could be interpreted in may ways. What I'm asking you to do is to quote the relevant parts of the presentation as I don't see how do they relate to what you're saying so that we may continue the discussion constructively. You're doing yourself a disservice by trying to pass me as an idiot as opposed to properly quoting your sources - it's not actually that difficult to do and it would have saved us like 2 posts. The only part I have found which is relevant is "Introduce more diverse locations, be attentive to lore pacing, use Tyranny’s highlight system, include some sillier characters – possibly a different companion type." which doesn't at all reinforce your point that mr. Sawyer would consider the general tone and seriousness of the world a problem. Then there's "Players and reviewers had mixed to favorable reactions about the world and lore. There was a lot to learn and keep track of. Many players wished for more light, funny, or silly elements." He didn't say he agrees with the sentiment - just that it's a reaction of unspecified "Many" players which, again, is not saying much. In short: You're stretching his statements without even knowing the context. I've said repeatedly that Josh isn't actually aware of the problem I've pinpointed - either that or he doesn't admit it publicly (and with good reason, because it's one thing to say "our mechanics need tweaking" and another to say "on the whole our game was pretty uninspired").
  5. This is mostly fluff and very little is actually made of the racial diversity in-game. Hardly anyone raises an eyebrow when they see a godlike (how could they with all the backer godlike NPC's standing around). Playing a death godlike was completely disappointing as the reactivity hinted at in the manual wasn't present. Attributes don't revolve around souls Abilities don't revolve around souls Combat resolution doesn't revolve around souls Souls are only sometimes mentioned in dialogue I wouldn't call that emphasis. Seems like a contradiction, everyone's a different species but in the end everyone basically is Vailian or Dyrwoodan? "Squeeing" seems to be a big thing to you, do you mean that NPC's express strong emotions? If so, I find that very fitting in a classic fantasy setting, especially because we're talking about a frontier type setting here. These people are the sons and daughters of settlers and pioneers, they shouldn't exhibit Victorian mannerisms. I think it's a fitting word, however superficially when people hear wacky they think of parody or goofiness, but I already explained how silly elements fit into the picture here. Anything that requires or facilitates suspension of disbelief is wacky in this context, Yes I agree Durance was a fitting companion for this type of game. OTOH he also sticks out almost too much for exactly this reason. I see other problems as well, such as the stronghold, combat resolution, the attribute system etc., but I actually think these problems are superficial compared to the fact that for a fantasy RPG, there's precious little well-realised fantasy in there.
  6. Yes, that's where he mentions they should introduce some sillier characters, not that the game as a whole is not wacky enough, which brings me back to my original point of majority of people apparently liking the game. Do you have trouble reading the slides? He even uses the word soul.
  7. I'm also talking about "little touches", however I can pinpoint what is meant by that. Verisimilitude is part of that btw. As it is now PoE's world doesn't make sense, dialogue is very personally oriented while the world is classic fantasy. It's also just as vanilla as D&D btw, unless you think widespread use of firearms somehow sets it apart. What you are saying is that if an NPC takes things seriously the player will too, I'd say that's an unsubstantiated claim and one I can't confirm. The history of games is full of examples of serious business stories but the delivery is completely laughable and doesn't touch the player at all. I'm not talking about turning PoE into a comedy game so that's hyperbole. PoE OTOH mostly lacks any tongue-in-cheek moments. A good RPG runs the whole gamut of emotion, PoE's tone is that of a ladies' teaparty throughout.
  8. What makes side quests interesting? If you're making a fantasy RPG but you want to keep things "serious" you're obviously limiting yourself in what you can do. Defiance Bay suffers a lot from this, you just have to compare it to Athkatla to see that. An undead making machine is nothing compared to having a gang war with vampires, though that is also a problem of scope. But things like Pernisc's or the Salty Mast's quest are as banal and predictable as they come. BG's world seemed well-realised because it integrated the fantasy elements well. In PoE they stand out like a sore thumb. Humour and silliness aren't synonymous with wacky in this case. I take wacky here to mean anything requiring suspension of disbelief. However, seriousness stumps suspension of disbelief, so silliness can enhance the fantasy aspects (within limits). The points you mention would make for a more cohesive/ convincing gaming experience, but I don't see anything there that would require throwing the term soul around. Games can be a polished experience without anyone talking about soul.
  9. I'm fine with you ignoring my points, just don't pretend to be able to follow what I've said
  10. Did you see the GDC talk? Did he say anything along those lines? To my knowledge, Josh Sawyer only wishes for more diverse environments (which is quite understandable regardless of tone) and would like to add, quote, "Some sillier characters", emphasis on some - and, true enough, the game could use a little bit more humor, altho not that much. Overall, from interviews I've seen/heard, he's fairly happy with the tone of the world they've set in the original game. So where did you get the idea that even Josh Sawyer agrees with all of your points, disregarding the fact that him agreeing doesn't necessarily mean he's correct? It's in his slides http://media.obsidian.net/eternity/media/misc/pe-jsawyer-looking-back.pdf lol @ him agreeing with all of my points. I said he's clearly not come to the same conclusion as me (or he doesn't admit it)
  11. Being evil or good gives you magical powers you think this is realistic good on you
  12. "My hotel's as clean as an Elven arse." "Heya, it's me, Imoen!" Xzar and Montaron Khalid Minsc "Methinks you are no ordinary chicken!" Noober Golden pantaloons Edwina "Me axe is bloody ready!" Jan Jansen Planar Sphere Human Flesh Armor Boots of Speed Raise dead Level drain Mage battles Contingencies The Underdark Good/ evil path I rest my case (just because I can).
  13. Josh thinks he's onto something I think he's onto something You don't think so (because you like the game) not a compelling argument either. Also I'm open to counter points beyond "you can't prove that" This is not about sales numbers, if it was about sales I'd suggest Obs dumb down and consolify their games more but they're already doing that (hello Tyranny). Adding wackiness, quirkiness, whatever you call it, would have been required to make a more traditional RPG, and certainly to make an IE games successor. That's my point. If that's better or not is open to discussion, but as I said if you argue against it you'd have to reconcile the serious business tone of things with the "let's go kill some evul munsters" aspects first.
  14. I was specifically talking about people who are disappointed in a way with the game, not those who "love" it. But how can someone love PoE and BG/ IWD at the same time?!? Truly, I think it's possible. Maybe they like the diversity. Maybe they feel the game is more than the sum of its parts. Maybe, or very likely, these people aren't aware of the rift between serious business dialogue and roflstomping dragons for phat loot. Either way, I don't think it matters.
  15. By "disappointed with PoE" I meant no more than "disappointed with this certain aspect of it", although I've seen enough people criticize the game at large. Still, Josh has taken notice of the problem so it's kind of pointless of you to deny it exists.
  16. And after getting stabbed, shot in the face and run through with pikes, everyone gets up and has a laugh. Just like real life. I agree a balance has to be found, and BG2 did that pretty well. In wanting to balance the systems they forgot to balance the realistic with the fantastical elements. You obviously need both, the realistic because people have to accept your vision, and the fantastical because it's still a fantasy RPG.
  17. Obs of all people should know what a fickle mistress metacritic is. Having wacky elements doesn't mean events don't matter to the characters, as they do matter in most fantasy stories. To me the attempted seriousness of PoE doesn't transport more emotion than BG's characters. They just lack that gaudy let's-go-on-a-quest feeling, which is bad because most of the time, that's what you're doing. Not that it matters but I think you shouldn't hold your breath for un-consolized UI's in the future, after the direction Larian and InXile are heading.
  18. finding his 'soul', specifically. During his Gamescom presentation Josh mentioned a common complaint of players who were disappointed with PoE because they found its 'soul' to be missing. Josh also comments that 'soul is elusive'. Implying, of course, that players don't actually have a clue of what it is they're missing. So let's help him. For people to be disappointed, there must have been certain expectations. We can assume that these expectations had something to do with the Infinity Engine games. All of these were D&D games, and most were set in the Forgotten Realms. I believe this is already the heart of the matter. As Josh mentioned elsewhere, D&D has always been an uneven rules system, torn between simulationism and gamism. And the Forgotten Realms are a notorious setting; they have been called silly, which they often are, but most of all they strive to be fantastical. Or, as I put it, wacky™. In high fantasy, wacky things always happen. One of the tenets of fantasy is simply to boggle the mind, or at least surprise the recipient. Beings and items show unexpected behaviour or unnatural properties all the time. In his quest to balance the rules and avoid degenerate player behaviour - which is often just making use of these special properties - pretty much everything in the game was streamlined. If you compare e.g. Baldur's Gate 2 with PoE, BG's wackiness is apparent. Its quirky spells, for example, have far more to offer than PoE's samey buff/ debuff/ damage spells. No hard counters means less impressive abilities on enemies. And magical items hardly ever did anything exciting - not even mentioning the fact that you always knew what they did right away. The second blow to the traditional fantasy elements that could have been came from the game's tone; it's clearly trying to be serious. I say trying, because serious fantasy is boring and a dichotomy. My argument here rests on two assumptions: 1) fantasy is always escapist and 2) escapism is not serious business. ​Now, PoE clearly wanted to be darker in tone than the IE games, but dark =/= serious. In many cases, there's nothing sillier than a grimdark setting. So I'd say this in itself wasn't problematic - PoE could have been a dark, but still fantastical game, like its predecessors. What's really problematic is that it takes itself too seriously - and serious and wacky are on opposite sides of the spectrum. As such, this approach was unsuited to a successor of the IE games, or even fantasy RPG's at large. Sentient items, level draining, or raising the dead are more than just mechanics. They reinforce suspension of disbelief by being tied to the numbers. And I don't care if these are old, tired examples - Obs' job would it have been to make it better, not to simply avoid all this stuff.
  19. The conclusion is pretty silly for anyone with any history of playing PC RPG's - and the author fails to make fitting comparisons, apart from praising the obligatory MotB and, for whatever reason, Icewind Dale. Apart from that, I agree with some points.
  20. The Ranger can very easily use Intelligence as a dump stat. Pumping Might, Per and Dex instead is a pretty good idea unless you just can't live without hobbled enemies.
  21. It's not like some of us have a week off work and don't want to play anything else... Good to hear the gameplay bugs are about to get ironed out. I haven't been affected by anything technical, luckily.
  22. I need a difficulty mode that makes prostitutes cost 1 gold, makes enemies forget about my wizard (I like em squishy) and gives trolls a million endurance so I can bang on them forever (I hate trollls). Do it Obs!
  23. I really like the roleplaying incentives for priests and paladins. Mechanically, the classes are all so versatile I can't say I have a favorite.
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