Instant Death

[Cultist]

In Baldur's Gate 2 we faced spells like Desintegrate and, more often, Imprisonment. In other words, instant death. There were very few ways to protect your character against it. So, will we have similar ways to die instantly in Project Eternity, when failing a save roll will result in instant death of the character?

[nikolokolus]

I sure hope so

 

And just so everyone is clear, that isn't sarcasm.

[Super_Cat]

I don't know. I hope there are other ways to make encounters challenging.

 

Instant death makes things too random, which encourages save scumming, while if you do have protection against those spells then the encounters become really easy. I remember in BG2 that one cloak that let me kill beholders solo with Keldorn, and with death ward from a cleric and spell immunity:abjuration a mage could tank Kangaxx.

[thracian]

there will be no resurrection spell, so possibly, no.

[JOG]

Well, disintegration means no resurection anyway.

 

Anyway, not a fan of "save or else" spells. Rewarding Player stupidity (like attacking the king in his throne room, provoking the guy who holds a crossbow to your head, or simply deciding to plunge into that bottomless pit) with insta-death is okay every once in a while. When it isn't overdone, it's a better consequence for stupid choices than locking the door and spawning endless waves of avengers, but it should be story / dialogue related, not the random effect caused by a random spell cast in a random encounter.

Edited November 1, 2012 by JOG

[mstark]

I'm happy for extremely powerful mages, in alternative encounters (in the vein of the mentioned "attacking the king in his throne room"), to have access to spells of this magnitude.

 

If the encounter is not required for any quest line, and it's an optional challenge to take on such a foe (think Firkraag, or Kangaxx), why not? Figuring out a way to protect yourself from such a capable adversary would add more value to exploration & reading, sending you on adventures where you might find out what protective spells could be required to shield yourself against such magic.

 

If an enemy has a spell that causes instant death, in addition to a very capable array or more 'regular' battle spells, it might require the player to equip the right item to protect themselves from the spell. This would likely mean that you'd have to unequip an item that might give you better protection against regular spells/attacks, just to be protected from the insta death. It's an easy way of making a challenge harder by forcing you to find & equip particular items. Encourages exploration and research, whether you do it yourself or read on a wiki.

 

That being said, instant, one hit kills, will cause reloading/save "scumming". That's not necessarily a bad thing. You enter a fight, die instantly, reload. Now you know better, you experiment with protective spells, or go look for different items, before returning to try again. If you keep dying, you know that you need to explore further before entering that particular fight. It's what made the IE games awesome, you'd replay fights, trying new strategies, or new equipment every time. Replaying a fight isn't a bad thing, not with the strategic depth of combat in the IE games. Compare it to a game like StarCraft, you play the same map hundreds of times, trying new strategies & units... it's part of the game. It's what makes it awesome.

 

I replayed Baldur's Gate 2 SoA immediately after finishing it, because in my first run, I was a complete noob. Most encounters were completely out of my league, and I only got through the final fight by cheese. The second time, I took more care exploring, finding more quests, more items, more information, and managed to take on every area in the game thanks to this.

Edited November 1, 2012 by mstark

[Archmage Silver]

I'd like to see Disintegration make a comeback.

 

A flash of green... then nothing.

[SinoSamba]

I hope there is no insta-death spells. Or if there are some, they are telegraphed and can be countered. It's frustrating to get killed by one hit and having to reload. That's not a challenge, it's aggravation.

[kabaliero]

Perhaps some epic spells should be cast by several spellcasters simultaniously.

And if u fail to stop their co-operation in a certain ammount of time - u get rather a big summoned thing at u,

or a debuff storm of some sort, or get a spectacular instant-death spell on 1 of the party members!

Edited November 1, 2012 by kabaliero

[Gibbscape_Torment]

Let's hope not. Nothing remotely tactical or fun about a spell that is a OHKO and cannot be avoided.

[kabaliero]

ok, spells that scare the hell out of the player and makes them act FAST are a musthave

 

maybe they rather should deliver massive ammount of damage then

 

so that there will be no complaints about "random"

like, "Ok, u wanned no random, well hey, here's no random. Die."

[Amentep]

I don't mind instadeath spells for either my party or the other party. Not a must, but certainly it could be planned for.

 

I don't want "game over" from spells that end (like Maze for soloers in BGII) or that could be dispelled if other party members were around (like Imprisonment could be with Freedom).

[Sabotin]

Just don't make me play bullet hell games with more than 1 character...

[Mikaw]

I hope we'll see those kind of spells.

It can be frustrating if it happen too often and impredictably. But with enough informations every sensible player will remind to have magical protection before fighing a lich or any powerful spellcaster. Instant death is also a good way to deal with silly decisions...

It can also be a opportunity to create a good system of counterspell.

[jezz555]

well if there is no resurrection, maybe there shouldn't be instant death either. I mean I guess you could just reload but idk

[Tamerlane]

Save-or-be-****eds are lame and have always been lame. They're either caster supremacy in a bottle or totally worthless.

[Zoma]

Considering there is no resurrection mechanic in Project Eternity, it might not be a good idea.

[LadyCrimson]

I hope there is no insta-death spells. Or if there are some, they are telegraphed and can be countered. It's frustrating to get killed by one hit and having to reload. That's not a challenge, it's aggravation.

My word for it is "cheap."

 

Challenge that requires movement/terrain/technique/party strategy? I like.

"Challenge" that requires sudden saving/loading because of an unknown-beforehand insta-kill situation? No likey. Sure, on repeated playthru's you know it's there and can plan in advance for it, but I'm talking about the first time encountered. It's cheap.

[Larkaloke]

I like instant death spells, to some extent. I like the possibility of one character on either side being suddenly taken out. On the other hand, they often end up working most of the time or working hardly any of the time, and either way can get somewhat annoying. Still, I lean more towards liking them.

 

I don't want "game over" from spells that end (like Maze for soloers in BGII) or that could be dispelled if other party members were around (like Imprisonment could be with Freedom).

 

Yes. that is always quite annoying.

[motorizer]

I don't want instant death magic, but if there are large creatures on the scale of dragons then it could be cool if they could eat a character who strays too near

[Heresiarch]

For one thing, Imprisonment was reversible with Freedom and Disintegrated characters could be revived with Wish. So I would be OK with instant kills only if party NPCs are immune to such effects.

[Attero]

I liked it. i want it.

 

Lets make it clear i hope they dont make dumb game that you can finish no matter what choices you make in process. At most on lowest diff your characters could be immune to instant deaths.

 

In BG2 you had instant kill spells but you had also protection against them, Protect from death, stone to flesh , Freedom (only problem there was that your followers didnt like being kicked from team and game considered when they were petrified or Imprisoned as being kicked).

 

 

But i know that they wont make spells that will insta kill , probably there will be spells that can knockout your character instantly (0 stamina) but thats about it.

Edited November 1, 2012 by Attero

[evdk]

Bring back save or die spells. Also bring back the protection spells. Who says there are no tactics involved?

 

Ad the no resurrection argument - maybe there shouldn't be any crits either, eh?

[PsychoBlonde]

well if there is no resurrection, maybe there shouldn't be instant death either. I mean I guess you could just reload but idk

 

It is easier to destroy than to create.

 

I've gotten used to instant-death stuff in DDO, and it doesn't bother me nearly as much as it used to because they actually do a decent job of balancing the fooking things. It's not like 2nd edition AD&D where there were about 15 spells that all insta-killed and your chances of avoiding them were not so good. DDO has straightforward ways of avoiding insta-death: death ward and deathblock items prevent them flat out. However, there are plenty of other effects in the game that can do so much damage they can kill you in one shot on a failed save. You learn to use mitigation and to DODGE THE STUPID THINGS.

 

The only thing that's still problematic is the beholder antimagic cone combined with negative levels. Death ward goes away (antimagic!) and deathblock doesn't stop negative levels. But there aren't that many beholders in the game, and they're more of a tactical issue than a *monster* per se. They don't fill quests with dozens of them, so you know they're coming and you can use your own instant-death, stun, etc. abilities to cancel them out quickly.

 

Plus, every good RPG should have the opportunity for moments like Aerie disintegrating the dragon. :D

[Darkpriest]

Depends how magic works and if counterspelling is available + ward type of spells. The save-or-be-screwed type of spells should be in game (immobilize, die, etc.) but the abilities should be logical for "localization and enemy type involved". If you are entering some old wizard's tower, then you'd better have some death wards and counter-spelling ready. If you are out in the wilds and get ambushed by some bandits, it might be good to have some "freedom" type of spell available + some CC type of spell of your own.

 

As long as these spells/abilities are logically attached to a power level of a foe we might expect to see, I have no issues with them... It's part of the TACTICAL experience to be prepared for such encounters.