Curses!

[NerdBoner]

in the IE games when an item was cursed it had bad qualities that would often hinder the player, but the actual curse came from the fact that you couldn't remove the item.

 

now to me this made no sense. If I have an irremovable weapon or armor what the hell happens to my personal hygiene? (how do I clean my sensitive parts with a bastard sword tethered to my arm?) it is completely impractical and quite tedious tbh.

 

a better example of cursed item implementation would be to make them VERY attractive (especially in the early game) in the bonuses that they give you were you have to weigh the benefits of the power it grants versus the actual curses (ie the detriments).

 

take for example the Cursed sword of berserking +3 in BG1.

 

A +3 greatsword in BG1 was as close to a god sword as you could get in that game, but it came with the downside of "you might actually be possessed by the sword and go on a murderous rampage"...to me the irremovable aspect of the item was just silly and unnecessary.

 

 

TL;DR Make the curse obvious, but the power the item grants so tempting that you'd be willing to risk it. Make it a gamble that the player would be willing to make rather than something permanently attached to your body like its been welded there.

 

If you want to add a replacement to the irremovable aspect just make the power/curse addictive in a way that it affects your mind/soul long term.

[JFSOCC]

Curses always have confounded me, why would you place a curse on an item you intend to use?

Unless you clearly intend it to go into the hands of your enemies, which I suppose is entirely possible.

 

But I reckon there's other ways in which something could be cursed. It could have a quality that you could both interpret as a blessing and as a curse.

Like the "blessing" of foresight which turns out to be a curse when you find you can't change it (Cassandra)

I like the idea that the reason an item is doing more harm than good is simply because it wasn't intended for you. These gloves of might amplify your strength, but were made for powerful warriors who had the strength to take them off after combat. You are cursed with them because you keep breaking everything you touch.

It's not that the item is ineffective, it is doing exactly what it was made for, which is amplify strength in fierce warriors

But since the one wearing it isn't qualified, it acts in a way he or she would interpret as a curse.

[metacontent]

IIRC the unremovable curse is not that you literally can not let it go, but rather that the weapon always magically reappears whenever you go to reach for a weapon.

 

So you could take the cursed bastard sword and lock it in a safe, but next time you get into a fight and reach for a weapon "Hello again old chum" you'd unsheath and it would be the bastard sword in your hand.

[Badmojo]

What about, the immovable aspect is a bit of a cooldown/chance. When you use an item, that item activates a timed lock, during this time, there is a chance the negative aspect will kick in, the more you use it, the longer the lock and the greater the chance. Eventually the cooldown will run out, hope you have not slaughtered any innocents (unless you are evil and do not care, then its a bonus!) during the time.

 

But since we are on cursed items, I like super powerful evil stuff that requires specific cost to use. Like a sword of demon vein will grant you superhuman swings whenever you kill a certain amount of people (starting power). No problem, you could do that whenever you are in your regular fighting. However, after a while another ability unlocks that is the power of soul eater, whenever you kill a someone, their soul is sucked in the sword and your health starts to regenerate and you gain more strength for each kill you do during the time of activation, the price though is that you have to kill x number of innocent people to activate this power. And their might be stronger powers/abilities that tempt you to do more darker things to gain more power. Tempting powerful objects are fun, but are rarely used sadly. I think there was a book of evil spells in one of the old games that gave you more powerful spells, but required to do evil deeds to gain them, been a while since I played so my memory is a bit fuzzy.

[Amentep]

I'd like to think that there's no "one" way for a curse to be applied. It'd probably also be needed to define what the curse is in PE before deciding mechanics to enforce it.

 

But one example, lets say you pick up a sword and equip it. Its a longsword 1-8 damage. It has a penalty to hit %. Because I equipped it, I'm cursed. The point is that I have to do something to remedy the curse so they could very easily devise the "nature" of curses to be such that a cursed item "bestows" a curse on the equipper(s) as opposed to being unremovable (in this case to penalty to hit would remain regardless of what sword I used).

[Malkaven]

I like cursed weapons and the way they worked in BG1. This is a fantasy games after all.

[Regenshire]

Not being able to remove it makes the curse actually matter, and in a big way. If you can simply trade it in and out with other equipment without any other affect then it really has no impact on your game other then that you can make it benefit you in small ways where it makes sense.

 

That being said, their are probably other mechanics you could use to make cursed items actually matter. For example, you equips a cursed dagger (its not obvious it is cursed) for X minutes on a character. Every once in a while your character talks about how dark and shiny his dagger is, which is odd because he has never talked about a specific item before. He must like it. Later on you swap it out for a new shiny dagger, not knowing the previous one is cursed. It lets you swap it out.

 

You get in an encounter later on, your character swing his new knife and a dialogue appears on the screen informing you that your hand has convulsed and you drop the dagger, and the character immediately draws his old favorite and begins swinging with it.

 

The big thing I would like to see is if there are multiple cursed objects (and there should only be at most a few in the game) have each one have completely different curse affects, just make sure they actually matter and reduce the choice or cause some sort of headache for the character. Also, have interesting quests associated with the items and a way to resolve the curse on the player.

[Hormalakh]

Curses should be applied to the person, not the weapon. That is to say if a cursed berserker sword of +3 was wielded, the sword could be unequipped, but the curse remains with you. You still go on berserker rampages until you apply a remove curse spell regardless of what weapon you use. The curse reapplies itself each time you wield that weapon.

 

There should be items like the cursed belt of gender change (or whatever its called) should be unequippable until after the curse has been removed.

 

More than one way to apply a curse, and generally speaking curses should be applied to the person. What do you think?

[Rabain]

I'd be all for Curses being applied on equip to the character and still being able to unequip the weapon if there was an appropriate cost to removing the Curse.

 

Otherwise what you get is a gimpy system where players equip weapons, live with the curse for the duration they need to use the weapon for and then remove curse when they are no longer using the weapon and have the time. It'd be like having all the benefits of the weapon without the negatives. At least the IE system punishes you a bit more by forcing you to use the weapon without being able to switch to something else.

 

What could also be interesting is being able to remove the Cursed aspect of the weapon, either through some quest (with specific items) or via crafting or temple payments etc.

[UncleBourbon]

Curses always have confounded me, why would you place a curse on an item you intend to use?

Unless you clearly intend it to go into the hands of your enemies, which I suppose is entirely possible.

 

But I reckon there's other ways in which something could be cursed. It could have a quality that you could both interpret as a blessing and as a curse.

Like the "blessing" of foresight which turns out to be a curse when you find you can't change it (Cassandra)

I like the idea that the reason an item is doing more harm than good is simply because it wasn't intended for you. These gloves of might amplify your strength, but were made for powerful warriors who had the strength to take them off after combat. You are cursed with them because you keep breaking everything you touch.

It's not that the item is ineffective, it is doing exactly what it was made for, which is amplify strength in fierce warriors

But since the one wearing it isn't qualified, it acts in a way he or she would interpret as a curse.

 

In many D&D rulesets, curses are when trying to craft a wonderous/magical item goes awry in a bad way. Some villainous NPCs can make cursed items, but players can only fail so spectacularly so as to make a cursed item. Of course, if you failed terribly at making that helm of commanding or something, and it turns out to be a cursed helm of blindness, it isn't like you would want to just bury it or destroy it necessarily - it probably cost a lot to craft. So maybe you deceive someone into buying it, or you find some sheriff/king who wants to use it in a dungeon/bedroom/prison or whatever, and you recoup some of your losses. Then somehow or another it falls into the wrong hands who knows what it is, and either tricks or forces others into equipping it, and there you go.

 

I also like the curse sort of thing you're talking about. Pathfinder and some D&D codexes have items like those - I recall a helmet that alllows perfect vision at all light levels, but also makes the wearer sensative to bright light. The Robe of Eyes is another fun one - it is basically true sight all the time, with some reflex and dexterity bonuses, and in all directions - only you can't even attempt to avert your gaze or avoid gaze attacks.

 

Also to that point: In one homebrew campaign, we happened upon a few pieces of artifact armor (gauntlets, boots, and a breastplate) each with major bonuses (DR on the breastplate, stoneshape and strength for the gauntlets, and spiderwalk and haste for the boots) but acted as cursed unless you were evil aligned and a worshipper of this "dead" god, and imparted several penalties (especially charisma and wisdom) if you were not. It was kind of neat.

Edited October 29, 2012 by UncleBourbon

[Amentep]

Curses always have confounded me, why would you place a curse on an item you intend to use?

 

Maybe the curse was placed after it was created? Guy makes Stabby +12 stabbing sword and his Arch-Evil foe sneaks in, steals the weapon, curses it, sneaks it back and now its Stabby +12 stabbing sword cursed with Beserker rage that causes guy to go all stabby on his family.

 

Or maybe the +5 Holy Sword picked up a taint (in the form of the curse) when heroic long dead guy defeated some ginormous demon ages past?

 

Or maybe there was magical interference? God interference? A minor miscalculation? A person with a really bad sense for practical magical jokes?

[Marceror]

Curses should be applied to the person, not the weapon. That is to say if a cursed berserker sword of +3 was wielded, the sword could be unequipped, but the curse remains with you. You still go on berserker rampages until you apply a remove curse spell regardless of what weapon you use. The curse reapplies itself each time you wield that weapon.

 

 

 

This is exactly what I was about to say. You pick up a cursed sword, YOU inherit the curse. Until that curse can be broken, the curse stays with you, whether you are using/carrying the weapon or not.

Edited October 29, 2012 by Marceror

[DocDoomII]

Well, usually cursed item in videogames are not cursed by the owner, that would be dumb.

 

My take on enchantments and curses is that there should be of 2 kind.

1-spell cast with intent: you willingly cast a spell on the item to bless or curse it (depending of what you plan to use it for)

2-unaware spontaneous incantation: P:E is a world of souls. if someone with a strong soul and strong emotions uses an item for a long time, the item could assimilate a fragment of its owner's soul and become blessed or cursed depending of the mental and emotional state of its owner.

 

Bless Example: a thief who can't go on a job without his favourite pair of boots because he believes that only with those boots the success will be granted. With the decades the boots could gain a bonus to move silently or hide in the shadows (for example).

Curse Example: a serial killer that after killing each victims scars himself with his knife (like Zsasz ). With the years the knife could become cursed to slightly wounds its owner after each kill.

 

How's that?

 

 

EDIT:

Or maybe the +5 Holy Sword picked up a taint (in the form of the curse) when heroic long dead guy defeated some ginormous demon ages past?

Uh, I like this.

Edited October 29, 2012 by DocDoomII

[Badmojo]

Hmm, I would also like a cursed object that actually changes the character in some way. Say you kill a powerful ghoul with and it has a sword of shadowfeed. Like I mentioned above, each time you attack someone you feed off their death. However, each time you use its ability, you slowly transform, you find you do not like sunlight, your skin gets pale, you find you are hungry...for...something. It should be obvious whats going on, but the swords ability gets more powerful with each use and its just sooo tempting. Perhaps have it keep returning like the old games. There should be a point where the character must decide to see a priest (perhaps have one in his party) remove the curse (but it will destroy the sword), or hit a point of no return where the character becomes a full fledged ghoul or other monster.

 

Then there is the old cursed item actually has the soul of the previous owner. Wearing it and the PC eventually is possessed and taken over by the defeated enemy. Now you will have to take on one of your own companions (maybe even the former PC main character itself!) Now would be a good time to kick yourself if you never put any effort in taking down a character in a non violent means. This would be a fun encounter I think.

 

There should be cursed items for every type of class, perhaps have a party using nothing but cursed items, perhaps earning the name "the damned ones"

[Hormalakh]

I'd be all for Curses being applied on equip to the character and still being able to unequip the weapon if there was an appropriate cost to removing the Curse.

 

Otherwise what you get is a gimpy system where players equip weapons, live with the curse for the duration they need to use the weapon for and then remove curse when they are no longer using the weapon and have the time. It'd be like having all the benefits of the weapon without the negatives. At least the IE system punishes you a bit more by forcing you to use the weapon without being able to switch to something else.

 

What could also be interesting is being able to remove the Cursed aspect of the weapon, either through some quest (with specific items) or via crafting or temple payments etc.

 

Maybe they can incorporate the enchantment/crafting mechanic into this somehow? Each curse has a certain set of ingredients that you need to mix to make a potion to drink. But the specific ingredient you need differs for each curse and you need to get that information from a temple or someone with high-lore. Once you know the set of items you need, you then have to either craft the potion yourself or get someone else to do it for you.

 

Ultimately, for each curse, you have to 1) find out the potion requirements. 2)Go find the potion requirements in the game 3) Make potion.

 

They can make these curses-time dependent as well, if you don't cure the curse after a certain period of time your stats start to fall. If you wait too long, your health falls, and you end up dying (maybe after playing with the curse on your person for 10 real-world hours).

[DocDoomII]

Can't we merge this topic with the other one about curses?

 

EDIT: ok, now that the threads have been merged, this post makes no sense whatsoever

Edited October 29, 2012 by DocDoomII

[Streamlock]

Hmm, I remember playing a NES rpg back in the day, Dragon's Quest was it? (the one where you run around killing little blue blobs for 8 hours straight to get a level)-anyway, one of the 1st magical items I found was a necklace of some kind in some wrecked fort or something. Come to find out it was cursed, started choking you to death, and you had to march your way back to the nearest major town/castle to get it removed-taking damage the whole way. And at that point, the removal cost was pretty much all the gold (money-whatever it was called) you had aquired from killing stupid blue blobs.

 

I don't remember ever being any point to it other then to piss the player off. No context to it what-so-ever IIRC. Totally pointless. It was Japanese though, so I guess making sense was to much to ask for-even back then. (I do remember enjoying the game overall at the time-could not pay me to play it today).

[Tigranes]

Merged.

[rjshae]

Unless a game is built from the ground up with curses in mind, I don't think they are worth the bother. They are a minor aspect whose main purpose seems to be to confound players who are too eager to use magical treasure. At best, they can be useful as motivators for unexpected NPC behavior.

[Cryticus]

It is really not that important I mean in no infinity engine games was enough cursed items to make it matter, and I don't expecy much diffrence in this game .

 

Can't we merge this topic with the other one about curses?

 

EDIT: ok, now that the threads have been merged, this post makes no sense whatsoever

 

And just because I need to say it your signature..... so awesome ... just so awesome , I just want you to know it

[Jasede]

You should think of the inability to un-equip as an abstraction rather than as a narrative fact. Maybe putting the cursed weapon away for more than, say, a minute leads to unending physical pain or something like that. It's like D&D hit points: they're not literally your vitality points. They're more of a weird luck / constitution / skill potential that you use up when avoiding hits. As with most things in pen & paper, cursed weapons the way you described them are an abstraction.

 

Obs. can probably come up with something more interesting anyway rather than having some random cursed weapons with nothing special about them strewn about.

[Osvir]

A cursed item is an item that your character craves, without it he/she/it can't "breathe", function and the rehabilitation should be severe and very difficult (much more so than getting addicted to drugs).

 

A great example is Harry Potter, Ginny and the book, she doesn't understand herself because she is possessed. That's what a curse is, it possesses and clings to the person and even when she is away from the item in question it finds her. I'd like the curse to have more effect than the item in question, if you equip a cursed item, the very curse could/would latch onto your character, even if you sell the item or throw it away (because really, the curse has been lifted from the item and is now possessing your character).

 

Corruption, the One Ring is a great example as well. Your character might find him or her thinking they've let go of the cursed item and moved on with their life (but really they haven't, they still keep the item in their backpacks), and when the enemies have been slain in your fit of rage you find yourself holding the cursed sword tightly in your grip and the chaos around you, you realize that you just had a blackout (edit: and you'd be able to skip lower level fodder battles )

 

Suggestion: Cursed item quest or cursed item corruption can cause your screen to fade to black (during weaker mobs or specific for a quest) and you find yourself standing in the midst of your fit of rage. For atmosphere mostly, would give the player a "cursed blackout" effect due to the cursed item in question.

 

I gave the Berserking Sword to Khalid btw, it seemed to fit with his personality (or rather, the only way to make him fight "courageously"). In that sense, if I would have played evil (which I almost never do, see below paragraph) I would have liked it if that would have made Khalid evil.

 

A cursed item should change the "alignment" if wielded for too long of your companions. I dislike being forced to play as a good character or a bad character in this sense, locking out potential companions or maybe even making some companions leave if I play too evil. Take Jaheira as an example, what if I could make her evil and she would "appreciate" Faldorn into the party instead of rejecting her? (Not even interested in having Faldorn but... yeah)

 

Is this possible and/or an attractive method?

Edited October 29, 2012 by Osvir

[JFSOCC]

and if my willpower is strong enough instead of changing me I change the item

[Nonek]

I would like to see an item that once bound to you hinders you in no way shape or form, but rather tempts you with the boons it can offer. The grimoire in Torment springs to mind, but it should have offered something more integral to your character, such as memories and explanations of your past lives actions. I know Mr Avellone hates the very idea of swords but Elric's Stormbringer is another perfectly crafted temptation for the weakling albino, it offers so much via the simple expedient of being used just as any other weapon is used, and yet it slowly becomes a crutch for the character until he see's their fates merging into one.

 

"We must be bound to one another then," Elric murmured despairingly. "Bound by hell-forged chains and fate-haunted circumstance. Well, then—let it be thus so—and men will have cause to tremble and flee when they hear the names of Elric of Melinbone and Stormbringer, his sword. We are two of a kind—produced by an age which has deserted us. Let us give this age cause to hate us!”

 

A cursed item that subtly causes alienation and dependence, that echoes the mantra of Dead Money, in that the hardest part is in the letting go.

[Rink]

I like cursed items. Especially if you don't know about the curse before it happens. BG was easy. It had a good story about any item and you knew it (and thus if the item is cursed) or you didn't know a thing about it but found out as soon as you did wear the thing.

I would have nothing against it if in this game some rare/"legendary" items had a slightly different background color if you aren't completely sure about all the preferences an item has and the properties could be positive or negative and are only unlocked after some time using the item. In the discription for example there could be text like "..there have been some rumours about this shoes being bad luck.". You would know the curse as soon as it happens (or not, because rumours don't have to be true after all) and the discription and color of the item could update as soon as it is known.

I don't know if others like it, but it would make people try more weapons and armor to unlock the full properties of this special items.

 

The curse should be on the person, not the item, I agree. But I don't mind some items sticking, if others have other curses.

Edited October 29, 2012 by Rink