Identifying unknown items in PE

[rodolfo]

Hello,

 

Does anyone here know if we will have some magic like D&D identify?

[rjshae]

I have no idea, but I hope they don't use the borked up system they have in Neverwinter Nights 2. That game allowed a character to identify all but the most powerful magic item with just a single point in the Lore skill. That made it totally useless to spend skill points on Lore until you got to very high levels.

Edited October 26, 2012 by rjshae

[Ieo]

No word yet. If there is such a spell, then I don't want the items (specifically armour/jewelry or weapons) to be unequippable. With the risk of a curse, but whatever.

 

I think it'd be nifty if specific magical abilities were discovered over use instead, with the option to take an item to a magic expert for full identification. For example, you find a mace. You can tell by the fact that your soul flows more freely through it that it has magical properties, but you're not sure what. You decide to wield it for now. After smacking a nasty critter with it and seeing that it does some fire damage, you "identify" that aspect of its enchantment yourself, and it appears on the item description. Or you find a helm, and after putting it on, discover you can see better at night; but maybe there's an on-use shield effect you hadn't figured out, and that has to be fully identified with an expert.

[Gorgon]

I always thought it was pretty retarded not being able to put on a pair of boots because you didn't know what magic was on them.

[Heresiarch]

I would prefer having no identification at all, unless you happen to stumble upon an in-game description of the exact item. Otherwise you have to actually use the item to learn about it's magic abilities. Maybe let magic-users gauge the effects somewhat or just an over-all "enchantedness" level, but no more than that.

[Churchwarden]

Maybe identifiable marks like runes could give some information about the item to an arcane scholar, while not everything is explicitly knowable without use. If it's a unique item, it should be much harder to fully identify it's magic than if it's one of a set of items that were produced for all the members of an order.

[Christliar]

I never understood the unique item problem with identification. If it is UNIQUE and LEGENDARY shouldn't you instinctively know what it is by common knowledge? The random rings and weapons you find are more understandable to not know what they do until somebody figures out what magic it was used to create it.

 

All in all I like identification, because it adds suspense to an item. I like the idea that if you put on an unidentified armor you still get bonuses, they just aren't shown to you (in the description) and if there's an on-use effect it makes sense that you wouldn't know that until you identify it.

[Churchwarden]

I never understood the unique item problem with identification. If it is UNIQUE and LEGENDARY shouldn't you instinctively know what it is by common knowledge? The random rings and weapons you find are more understandable to not know what they do until somebody figures out what magic it was used to create it.

 

Well if it's LEGENDARY, I agree that most people would have common knowledge of an item, but what about a UNIQUE magic item created by some crazy hermit or mad sorcerer that was buried hundreds to thousands of years ago in some forgotten cave or lair? Why would anybody, even scholars, have detailed knowledge of the item?

[Frenetic Pony]

I think the whole "identifying" thing works better in a boardgame rather than a PC game. At least in how it WAS implemented in BG/2/Icewind Dale/Etc.

 

In the old Infinity Engine games your guy either knew it, or you sighed and memorized an identify spell (if you didn't already have one) and then you knew it. It wasn't really interesting, just a chore.

 

That being said, the idea of it being a mystery was still kind of interesting. "Oooh, got this magic item, I wonder if it's good?" and the whole cursed items idea has merit perhaps. But to keep those things you'd have to make the fundamental action of identifying items more interesting and engaging than just shoving it into your bard/wizards inventory and right clicking, which ended up just being an excess chore.

Edited October 26, 2012 by Frenetic Pony

[Coincidence]

I always thought it was pretty retarded not being able to put on a pair of boots because you didn't know what magic was on them.

 

I've always thought the same. The whole surprise and hoping you get a good item part is nice but I don't see why you can't actually use it.

[jivex5k]

Meh...has no allure in a game like this for me.

Fits better in Loot-Fest games IMHO.

I wanna see those stats, stat!

Edited October 26, 2012 by jivex5k

[rjshae]

I always thought it was pretty retarded not being able to put on a pair of boots because you didn't know what magic was on them.

Doing otherwise would probably have taken a fair amount of coding effort: you've got to hide the benefits of the item from the player while still providing those benefits during combat. Otherwise, what is the point of having an Identify spell or a Lore skill?

 

Perhaps they need a different mechanic than the old Identify magic item concept. Maybe magic has to be attuned to a person (or party) before its powers can be used? If it is not attuned, then perhaps it is liable to act in a mysterious manner with the benefits varying chaotically?

[Jasede]

I'd like to see a Lore skill.

It's traditional. There could be several, such as Geography, History, Languages, et cetera. The skill check you'd have to meet would vary depending on the item or be a combination thereof.

Edited October 26, 2012 by Jasede

[Karkarov]

Uh identifying items is just a boring chore. "What about the risks of a curse Kark?!?" Uh, what risk? You mean you actually equipped something before you identified it? I know I never did, thus there was no risk and there was just chore.

 

Leave it out please. There are far more intelligent and interesting uses for a lore skill than identifying random items you find.

[Hormalakh]

You could completely leave out "identify" as a spell, and ultimately only have a "detect magic/spirit" spell, that tells you if a sword is magical/enchanted. Otherwise, the equipment looks like all the other equipment. There would be no way for you to actually know if anything you got was enchanted unless you use that spell. Once you use that "detect magic/spirit" spell your enchanted items change their visual icon. Those with the proper lore no longer need to identify that equipment. Once they know it's magic/spiritual" a high lore tells you what it is. Otherwise, you can't know - you equip it and wish for the best. Or find a really ancient dude with a lore-score that's over 9000.

 

eh, it's an idea. I don't really like it, but I don't hate it either. Mix and match it with other ideas given above and you might come up with something interesting, and that isn't actually a chore.

Edited October 27, 2012 by Hormalakh

[GhostofAnakin]

I kind of like the idea of unidentified equipment that you could wear, but at your own risk. You can wear them right away, but maybe they're cursed? It's just a chance you take if you decide to equip them before getting them identified.

[JOG]

I'd like a system where you don't know whether you fully identified an item or not.

 

A bit of curiosity and common sense should tell you what an item most obviously does, but there may be more to it. That masterfully crafted sword with the obvious enchantment that keeps it razor sharp might have a secret command word that makes it burn with an eerie fire, but you might never learn the sword's true nature.

 

Or you could find a ring and can equip it; when you feel a warm tickle and that wound closes, you know that it's obviously a ring of regeneration. A loremaster may be able to tell you that it's actually the Ring of the Lichmaster that regenerates your health but draws its power directly from your soul, and that you will become an undead once your soul is completely destroyed, but well, who is going to pay some old sage to identify an item, when its enchantment is pretty obvious?

[Rabain]

I'd like a system where you don't know whether you fully identified an item or not.

 

A bit of curiosity and common sense should tell you what an item most obviously does, but there may be more to it. That masterfully crafted sword with the obvious enchantment that keeps it razor sharp might have a secret command word that makes it burn with an eerie fire, but you might never learn the sword's true nature.

 

Or you could find a ring and can equip it; when you feel a warm tickle and that wound closes, you know that it's obviously a ring of regeneration. A loremaster may be able to tell you that it's actually the Ring of the Lichmaster that regenerates your health but draws its power directly from your soul, and that you will become an undead once your soul is completely destroyed, but well, who is going to pay some old sage to identify an item, when its enchantment is pretty obvious?

 

It sounds interesting until you start thinking about how it might affect players playing the game for the first few weeks or later on. Most likely everyone will identify everything, whether they have to pay or not for fear of missing out on something fantastic, or later they will just visit a database/guide somewhere to avoid the hassle of identifying everything. It doesn't sound good to me to leave people feeling frustrated because there is no choice except identify everything, gold permitting.

[JOG]

With a classic identification system we are metagaming just as well, we know when stuff is magical, so we cast that identify spell, if the item isn't useful we reload and use the spell to ID another item, even better: when we *can* use unidentified items, we will reload to cast the spell on another item, even when the item we just identified is actually very useful.

 

I didn't mean that every common twig scould possibly be an ancient druidic artifact of immense power, I meant that everyone should be able to determine the nature of an obviously magical item, simply by using it, but only an expert (or someone with an identify spell) should be able to find out the actual nature and background of the enchantment, as well as possible side effects that are not so obvious.

 

Of course items like the ring above shouldn't suddenly insta-kill you, a real DM would sooner or later have a wandering sage cross your way, and thus start a quest to undo the damage the artifact already did (or embrace it willingly).

Edited October 27, 2012 by JOG

[Sensuki]

I must admit I am a user of "Identify All Items" in the IE mods.

[Merin]

I'd rather there be no lore skill nor identify spell for magic items, nor a need to drop 100 gold at a store to find out what it does.

 

For certain special items, maybe you need to take it to a hedge wizard or scholar or temple to have them tell you what it is, as part of quest lines or some such... but the extra step of casting spells or spending gold to learn what your recently hard-won treasure can do has never added anything to the game for me.

 

In most of the games I've played, and all the games I ran, you just know what the items were. Quicker and more fun IMO. In the table top games with identify crap we'd collect a huge bag of crap, then spend like an hour as the "designated knowledge arcana, detect magic and identify spell" guy would make all the rolls. What a horrid waste of an hour - but if he hadn't gather them, and cast the spells each time we found an item, a horrible waste of resources.

 

If Identify and Lore (to identify items) is in the game, it'll be a minor annoyance at worst to me. I just don't think it adds to the fun at all.

 

....

 

I'm all for chanters, or maybe even priests or wizards, having special lore abilities that can tell you about the world and stuff at certain points - you need to get that exposition anyway, might as well feel special about the news by adding a [Lore] tag before the info dump.

 

But having to spend resources on the treasure you acquired? I'd rather not.

[Osvir]

I'm seeing a system that L.A. Noir uses. Inspect items.

 

How would this work in P:E? You could inspect the item, zoom in on it and zoom out, spin it and so on and so forth. By doing this you would learn new things about the weapon and/or the item. For a more simpler method you could Right-Click the item, choose "Inspect" and you'd get some information out of it or all of it (depending on Lore/Inspect/Crafting checks). Heck maybe you could even get cursed just inspecting an item!

 

I don't understand how "Identifying" items is more of a chore than chopping down mob after mob. I really liked the unidentified items in Baldur's Gate, and that I had to identify to be certain it wasn't cursed, it gave me the sense of feeling that I had an item that I had no clue what it was, and I had to do a little bit of detective work to find out what exactly this item was.

 

Sometimes I was frustrated of it too but in a good way.

 

"Long Sword +1" and such should never be unidentified though but the more "exotic" and "legendary" items. You slay Urgadesh (just making crap up btw) and take his sword, but it is unidentified. You know it is the "Sword of Urgadesh", because he was wielding it and trying to take some of your heads with it. What you don't really know is what kind of effects it has, and what could happen to you if you continue to wield it. Maybe you wield it and you realize that the sword isn't "The Sword of Urgadesh" as you might've logically thought in the beginning, but the fabled and most dangerous "Rotting Corruption" which slowly rots and corrupts the wielder (Just what happened to Urgadesh!!! ).

 

These are things that I would like to inspect/identify right away.

 

However, I really like this approach:

No word yet. If there is such a spell, then I don't want the items (specifically armour/jewelry or weapons) to be unequippable. With the risk of a curse, but whatever.

 

I think it'd be nifty if specific magical abilities were discovered over use instead, with the option to take an item to a magic expert for full identification. For example, you find a mace. You can tell by the fact that your soul flows more freely through it that it has magical properties, but you're not sure what. You decide to wield it for now. After smacking a nasty critter with it and seeing that it does some fire damage, you "identify" that aspect of its enchantment yourself, and it appears on the item description. Or you find a helm, and after putting it on, discover you can see better at night; but maybe there's an on-use shield effect you hadn't figured out, and that has to be fully identified with an expert.

Edited October 27, 2012 by Osvir

[Huinehtar]

I dislike Identify spell from D&D, in rp matters, it's hard to bargain an artefact (what isn't one in fact) if the customer has just to buy a Identify scroll to reveal real value.

 

I think, that only merchants (and experts, introducing a "knowledge level" - easy or difficult skill check depending of the item's rarity) could identify or at least have an idea. Of course, if the item is a broadsword, even a INT 1 character can say: "it's a broadsword, not a dagger" (But a giant could maybe think it's a dagger ).

 

And I agree: a Mage can wear a full plate armor. Walking with it, is another thing .

 

About "legendary items" (or very rare items): a character can search some information about it, getting some lore from books or experts (like Arcanum's martial experts), why not some "mini quests" or goals?

[LadyCrimson]

I don't mind a Lore/Skill ability for this, altho I tend to get irritated when only a mage can learn it or something (essentially "forcing" one to have a mage in the party).

 

But to me it makes sense that there are going to be magiks that no one in your party may be able to ID offhand, so a representation of needing some skill/knowledge in order to do it isn't something I'm against. Just...no constant "scrolls of ID" that one has to carry around all the time. And I'd be fine with being able to equip an item regardless of it's ID state, unknown penalties/risk included.

[Hiro Protagonist II]

Nothing wrong with how identify worked in the IE games. Surprisingly that so many people liked the old IE games but turn around and then say about the IE games: this was bad, that was bad, identifying was a chore, etc. It almost seems everybody hated the IE games everytime a topic like this pops ups.