A question of Loot

[Hellfell]

Loot is an important aspect of all RPG games. It is a material reward for player's efforts as opposed to XP which is a statistical reward. We acquire loot through quest rewards, exploring world, crafting, containers, stealing and dealing with enemies.

 

There are several types of looting dead enemies present in RPGs:

 

1. Loot you gain from the enemy is not connected To that enemy. This is prominent in ARPGs and MMOs where you can get gold from dead animals or a piece of armor from some demon monster.

 

2. Loot is connected to the enemy but restricted. You gain gold or potions or ammo from humanoid enemies, crafting materials from monsters, but you can't loot their weapons or armor (witcher 1-2, deus ex)

 

3. You can loot everything that an enemy possessed including weapons and/or armor, gold and all the items that the enemy had. From monsters you get crafting materials, hides, alchemy materials. You get the idea. This system was present in TES games like Skyrim and some IE games - Baldur's Gate 1-2. Icewind Dale.

 

So the question is - what system is more appropriate for Project Eternity? What kind of loot system would you like to see in this RPG and Why?

Edited October 22, 2012 by Hellfell

[eselle28]

The third option sounds right to me. I do like being able to loot weapons and armor from my foes. It's especially rewarding to get my first set of decent gear at the beginning of the game, and to loot awesome, powerful pieces from tough enemies toward the end of the game. But that feels the most meaningful if the drops are connected to the enemy. If I kill the Black Knight of Doom, I want to be able to get some black armor or a doomsword or something of that sort. If I kill a basilisk, I'd rather it drop some sort of scale or hide that could be used for crafting.

[Nerei]

Definitely the third one, it always bothers me if an enemy has a weapon or suit of armour I want and I for some reason cannot take it. On the other hand having wolves drop longbows, maces and daggers is just silly and to me fairly immersion breaking.

[ScornAUT]

One thing i really liked about Titan Quest, was that an enemy which had e.g. a unique axe in his inventory, that would be dropped if killed, would really wield that axe as his weapon. I don't know if uniques etc. are going to get custom skins in PE but i think this system was just great. It made the game that much more authentic. Although one must mention, that most enemies were fantasy-creatures with the ability to wield weapons. So as far as i can remember, it didn't have a completely disconnected loot system.

 

Coming more to the topic, i like "authenticism" in games, be it fantasy games or not. So i would also rathter pick the third one. For example, i didn't like the fact that i dropped countless enemies in heavy armor in the Witcher 2, without being able to use most of their equipment. This resulted in crafting to be mandatory, in an obtrusive way. Oh, and don't get me started on that MMO gold/instances-grinding - i tried it once and still can't comprehend why people would pay monthly fees for something like that.

Edited October 22, 2012 by ScornAUT

[testerius]

Of course, loot everything is the best option.

[Technatorium]

Loot everything as long as it makes sense. Gold/goods/armor/weapons/etc from humans, pelts/bone/"crafting materials"/etc from animals. Otherwise having it restricted or unhooked just makes the experience a bit frustrating and senseless.

Edited October 22, 2012 by Technatorium

[Karkarov]

No thanks, I don't need the option to steal the blacksmiths candlesticks or firewood like in ES games. All three of your options are bad. You should have just had option 4, "Like every Infinity Engine RPG did it".

[Hellfell]

No thanks, I don't need the option to steal the blacksmiths candlesticks or firewood like in ES games. All three of your options are bad. You should have just had option 4, "Like every Infinity Engine RPG did it".

 

I would like to hear more of this concept. Afaik in Baldur's gates and Icewind dales you could take everything the enemies had on them.

 

And I agree that we shouldn't be able to take useless things like candlesticks.

[rjshae]

There have been some prior discussions of looting. Basically the desire is for something fast and easy that requires a minimum of clicking and allows load previews prior to transfer.

 

I also wouldn't mind seeing a DA2-style equipment (star) ranking system for the lootable items.

 

There's definitely room for improvement in the approaches to looting.

[KKAtan]

I want there to be impossible opponents like Kuroisan. I want to be scared out of my mind and flee from the terror.

 

But when the time comes and I actually manage to defeat them, I would want whatever awesome weapon they were wielding. Because that feeling of such grand rewards is just plain nice.

[Adhin]

Just to throw this out there but the IE games where your second option, not third. You could not, and did not always loot 'everything'. It was based off the creature/person involved. So it was, ultimately, restricted. Just when it really mattered you have full reign over the targets full equipped equipment. Good example of rogues, often you'd just get a short sword or 2 from them instead of their leathers and any potions... some other stuff was randomized like gold.

 

Either way I like IE style, it made sense but was sometimes limited depending on the kind of enemy you where facing. Mooks rarely dropped all there stuff, for example, where as a pack of adventurers you'd get the full inventory. Also like Skyrims to an extent so... I just picked 3, since IE is kinda close to how Skyrim handles it but ultimately is actually the 2nd option.

 

-edit-

Biggest issue I have with skyrim is close to what someone said in here but for a different version... stealing there 'candlestick'. Some NPC carried some super bizar **** on them for no apparent reason, and that ultimately came down to a randomized misc inventory placed on a lot of NPC (especially vendors) that I feel had no real business being there as loot options.

Edited October 22, 2012 by Adhin

[Hassat Hunter]

Well, not sure why BG and DX are in different classes, since they both used the same system :/

 

BG had it right to me. Not too much useless junk, makes most sense, and you couldn't steal their entire inventory if it made no sense but to pawn off adding stupid repetition if you really want all that gold (not sure why one would want).

[Falkon Swiftblade]

i really liked how BG and IWD handled the loot with lore and having hidden items. I especially liked named NPC's like Drizzt you could kill. I'm pretty sure they fixed the bug keeping you from looting his gear in the upcoming Enhanced version. I also agree that I don't want useless loot, and i'd much prefer an item limit over encumbrance, it's my least favorite rpg trope.

[SeekDWay]

I saw a duck in that lake, I'ma go loot it nao.

 

I liked how BG and IWD handled loot and I'm totally OK with that design. I just hope that the amount of items you can carry is more realistic. Once upon a time a saw a rogue, he had 12 strength and carried 15 halberds on his back, while sneaking behind me.

[HansKrSG]

If someone is using a shortsword to attack me, I want to be able to loot that shortsword after I have killed him for his transgression. I will probably leave most such loot after a while playing the game, but it just feels more right when I can pick up whats obviously there, instead of getting some random trinkets/potions/coins (or nothing). As far as I can remember, some comment from one of the developers pretty much state that you can pick up whatever weapons and armor your enemy is wearing. Maybe someone with the time and inclination could find that quote for me?

[Kevin Lynch]

Like most others, it appears, I'm in the group that'd want to be able to loot anything that the opponent was carrying or had equipped (or had as a body part, as the case may be). Systems that drop random stuff have their place, but I'd like the system in PE to follow the classic BG design.

[Heresiarch]

I liked Witcher-style looting. TES is ok, since you won't be picking up everything anyway, but the way you ended up with dozens of enchanted swords and suits of armor for simple resale in BG/IWD/DA is weird to say the least. It's like you are not in a party of adventurers, but in a pack of beasts of burden.

[romka-unknown]

Pulls the sword from a caterpillar and a bottle of endurance. This is nonsense. +))

The best option - Baldur's Gate. Balanced.

Skyrim - no, too many things

The Witcher - no, too little things (why can not I get a bacinet ? )

[Heresiarch]

The Witcher - no, too little things (why can not I get a bacinet ? )

Because it doesn't work without a suit of armor, while full plate does not work with witcher fighting techniques. Taking into account that it's not feasible to carry suits of armor without having bottomless and weightless bags, looting armor and weapons (apart from those you can switch for your own) from corpses is completely pointless.

[Hellfell]

I'd like to answer my own question and let you know my vision of loot system done right in an RPG like Project Eternity.

 

Witcher 1-2, Deus Ex and some other RPGs have restricted loot because of a setting, circumstances and game design. The witcher doesn't need to loot weapons nor armor because he is a fixed character with certain profession and priorities. It doesn't make sense for him to loot items that are useless for him.

 

Skyrim had "full loot" because of the nature of the game. We played our characters in a way we wanted. Our characters were not fixed or restricted by background or priorities. The exploration theme of skyrim driven by the concept of "free loot, loot everywhere". This loot provided a feel of reward to the player.

 

I think that PE has elements of both types of games so I feel that Project Eternity needs a completely free but balanced loot system. Let me explain:

 

- Only useful stuff is lootable. We shouldn't be able to pick up useless cheap trash vendor items like cups and whatnot. But such loot as gems, rings and other valuables should be available because I think it is logical for adventurers to want such things.

 

- We should be able to loot everything that fallen enemies have on them: weapons, armor, gold, consumables if the enemy is human/other playable race. If the enemy is not one of the playable races, then we can loot weapons, body parts, organs for crafting or selling.

 

- in order to avoid situations like having 20 suits of armor in the inventory, the weight and value of armor and weapons should be balanced in a way that prevents players from collecting all loot they come across. Ideally, players will want to collect only upgrades or sidegrades and leave heavy but cheap stuff behind.

 

 

[Uszi]

Er, yes. Yes and no. I think people able to take a pikeman's pike makes sense, assuming that it isn't borken or damaged in the fighting.

 

I don't particuarlly want to be able to pick up all the brooms in the world like you can in skyrim...

[Hassat Hunter]

But... a 1d2 broom can be a legendary weapon... think of the broom of [insert someone who payed 1000 dollar here], a +6 legendary broom...

[Gatt9]

Loot is an important aspect of all RPG games. It is a material reward for player's efforts as opposed to XP which is a statistical reward. We acquire loot through quest rewards, exploring world, crafting, containers, stealing and dealing with enemies.

 

There are several types of looting dead enemies present in RPGs:

 

1. Loot you gain from the enemy is not connected To that enemy. This is prominent in ARPGs and MMOs where you can get gold from dead animals or a piece of armor from some demon monster.

 

2. Loot is connected to the enemy but restricted. You gain gold or potions or ammo from humanoid enemies, crafting materials from monsters, but you can't loot their weapons or armor (witcher 1-2, deus ex)

 

3. You can loot everything that an enemy possessed including weapons and/or armor, gold and all the items that the enemy had. From monsters you get crafting materials, hides, alchemy materials. You get the idea. This system was present in TES games like Skyrim and some IE games - Baldur's Gate 1-2. Icewind Dale.

 

So the question is - what system is more appropriate for Project Eternity? What kind of loot system would you like to see in this RPG and Why?

 

This is a horrible poll.

 

First, The poll neglects to acknowledge the concept of "Incidental treasure", treasure that represents the remains of previous victims, usually associated with creatures of animal intelligence. In other words, finding gold on a wolf is meant to represent the gold lying on the ground from past victims. That is where the concept came from, what it's meant to represent, and it does so *really* well. This is a user problem, most often a mistake made by people with no PnP RPG experience.

 

Second, ARPG's concept is Random Loot, not disconnected loot. Anyone can drop anything. It is not prominent in MMO's, to my knowledge the only MMORPG in the history of MMORPG's that used this concept is Asheron's Call. Every other MMORPG uses predeterming drops with random frequencies.

 

Third, your option 2 isn't "Connected" loot. It's predetermined loot. Every creature of the same type drops the same things. Further, Deus Ex isn't an RPG, it's a Shooter with a crippled interface to create the illusion of having RPG elements, that disappear as soon as the Player's skill is sufficient to overcome the handicap.

 

Fourth, your option 3 is again D&D loot but this time without incidental treasure. Also, Skyrim isn't an RPG it's an Action-Adventure game, and IIRC it's loot is just as level scaled as everything else in it.

[HansKrSG]

First, The poll neglects to acknowledge the concept of "Incidental treasure", treasure that represents the remains of previous victims, usually associated with creatures of animal intelligence. In other words, finding gold on a wolf is meant to represent the gold lying on the ground from past victims. That is where the concept came from, what it's meant to represent, and it does so *really* well. This is a user problem, most often a mistake made by people with no PnP RPG experience.

<snip>

 

 

 

I don't agree. There is no reason Obsidian can't do like in BG, namely put actual lootable victims on the ground, to do this, instead of having some secret "understanding" of that the gold on the wolf is from past victims. Even in a pen and paper rpg, I would never let the characters find gold on an animal (except if the animal had eaten someone whole, money and all), and would describe that they found whatever valuables on the remains of the victims (for example).

 

Doing as you suggest is lazyness, both in a crpg and in a pen and paper rpg.

[TrashMan]

Enemies should drop everything.

 

The restriction would be you own (very) limited carry capacity and the fact that the armor the enemy drops will often be damaged/unusable (since you killed him and he was wearing the armor)