13 levels is auspicious for the mega dungeon...

[Jademalo]

An I right in thinking that it's 3516 from PayPal for us to get 15 levels?

 

I still thik the 50k likes under the KS video should be used in place of the 40k obsidian likes, just incase we don't actually end up with 15

15 is such a nice number =[

[Jarmo]

13 levels... is more than what Temple of Elemental Evil had (even if you add up moathouse) and that's pretty much all that game had.

Utter madness! :D

[curryinahurry]

I'm guessing that it took me about 8-10 hours of real time to get through Dragon's Eye, which will supposedly have similar level sizes to the Endless Paths. So that translates to 25 - 30 hours (at least) if you'rs a fairly slow, methodical player like me.

[Potemkin]

The Mega Dungeon will be almost as big as Diablo 1. Endless paths will be about 14 levels deep, Diablo 1 had 16 levels. So Endless Paths is pretty damn big!

Edited October 17, 2012 by Potemkin

[Rabain]

If they include the statue, the levels with the statue will pretty much be half the size of the levels above, that should help reduce any chances of content providing too much gear for the player.

 

Also they could just provide a bigger gap between the level of mobs on each level perhaps forcing you to leave and come back later when you have gained experience elsewhere.

[el pinko grande]

I definitely like the idea that the dungeon isn't something you complete all in one go- tackling three or five levels at a time seems like it would be reasonable, with whatever sort of requirements they want to set barring access to lower levels until you progress further in the game. I also like the idea that the lowest levels aren't even accessible until after you beat the game- that way the awesome experience and loots to be found down there don't adversely effect the story's final battle, and it gives players something to occupy their time with while they wait for the expansion to come out.

[Ian]

I"m gonna throw in a vote for being able to do the dungeon at once if you'd like to muscle through it. Or at least having some way to transport yourself to and from the exact spot you were at. I hate having to go back to places over and over and waste time on inflated travel / discovery. It feels like a sad way to increase play time and "content" - I'd rather have it story driven and interesting investigation that makes me want to go deeper and deeper all at once.

[Piccolo]

I definitely like the idea that the dungeon isn't something you complete all in one go- tackling three or five levels at a time seems like it would be reasonable, with whatever sort of requirements they want to set barring access to lower levels until you progress further in the game. I also like the idea that the lowest levels aren't even accessible until after you beat the game- that way the awesome experience and loots to be found down there don't adversely effect the story's final battle, and it gives players something to occupy their time with while they wait for the expansion to come out.

No. I hate the idea of levels being locked based on progression through the main storyline. Awful idea.

Edited October 17, 2012 by Piccolo

[thracian]

instead of a single 13-level dungeon, create two (or 3) different dungeons which sum up to 13 levels

a single dungeon will divert the player focus from the main storyline and bore

[hideo kuze]

instead of a single 13-level dungeon, create two (or 3) different dungeons which sum up to 13 levels

a single dungeon will divert the player focus from the main storyline and bore

 

It won't if they do it right.

Think of the temple in ToEE, which had NPCs, quests, and even companions.

Although they need to make it better than the temple. It needed more polish.

[Balor]

Hey, such a dungeon would make a GREAT 'game in a game' for players who want concentrate on combat part of the game - like severs and modron maze in Planescape, which is otherwise very light on combat and heavy on dialogue.

This way, you can have a completely combat-free (stealth/speechcraft) path though the game... and a LOT of combat content for those who desire it.

[void_dp]

No and No, combat content with rich storyline that can be ignored by that type of people, is way to go. Can't stand to ignore the 20-30 hours part of the game because of lot pointless combat that i dont like.

Severs and Modron maze was very small at so they was well.

[Pope]

(wrong topic)

Edited October 17, 2012 by Pope

[Lorfean]

For reference, IWD's largest dungeon was Lower Dorn's Deep, which consisted of 12 maps of varying sizes. Look here for details.

 

LDD was by far the largest section in the game, and freakin' awesome at that, so I think it's a fair example of one way they could approach The Endless Paths. I can already say that it's probably my most anticipated feature in PE -- I'm a sucker for mega dungeons and it's been a blast to see Od Nua's castle grow to such epic proportions over the past few weeks.

[Jotra]

they will have to work very hard on it or it will be tedious and boring dungeon

 

This is definitely a real danger.

[Lorfean]

they will have to work very hard on it or it will be tedious and boring dungeon

 

This is definitely a real danger.

I don't think it is. They obviously don't need to make each level the same size, and there's a ton of different designs and styles they can use for the various levels:

 

Od Nua's quarters

servant/apprentice quarters

library

observatory

aviary

armory

chapel

gardens

guard training halls

secret experiments lab

mines

forge

prisons

torture chambers

underground temple

tombs

a flooded level

caves

etc.

etc.

 

It's gonna be awesome.

Edited October 17, 2012 by Lorfean

[Chabneruk]

To say "it could become tedious because it has 15 levels" is the same as to say "the outdoor areas could become tedious as there are 15+ of them". A dungeon can have many forms - and not all of them are caves/prisons. Lorfean has put up a nice list, for example.

 

There should be a theme that connects them, though. For example: "archaeological expedition in old nua tries to get deeper and you help them." Which would be a pretty standard theme, but I'm sure the guys at Obsidian will come up with something!

[Sensuki]

They'll need to work very hard on a lot of things, especially every single encounter in the game if they use an objective-based XP system.

[Zephyr Falcon]

Please developers: DON'T SCATTER "OD NUA JOURNAL" PAGES AROUND THE DUNGEON TO EXPLAIN ITS STORY!

 

It's so cheap and so not credible... please find another way to tell the dungeon's story!

 

Having wall carvings on each level detailing the events during its construction might be a compromise.

Maybe a mix of things. An object found that needs to be deciphered, wall carvings that depicts events, and journals that explain things that happened and why it was dug this deep. Many ways to intermix the way the story lore unfolds.

 

I would like to see a ghost appear to tell us the story of the dungeon. And he would say something like "Trust me, I'm a reliable narrator".

 

That alone would turn my paranoia up to eleven, doubting very thing he says, mistrusting even the most obvious advice.

[szelbisz]

They could make 10 levels of just stairs down + 4/5 regular levels

[septembervirgin]

You have to find the Amulet of Yendor and bring it back to the surface

 

Maybe Werdna is hiding out between the statue's toes?

[Darustet]

I don't think the lack of diversity will be a problem here. Lorfean's example list is a classic one, which you can start building from. In the KS picture (even if it's more of an extra art piece than actual plan) the first levels suggest for more typical castle dungeon which is always cool place to hang out and hide a trap door or two. Going lower levels you would also go through the stratums -> dirt and roots -> rock/granite -> huge underground caves -> with underground streams (maybe that's why the lower levels seems to be flooting?) and those are just ''normal'' levels caused by nature and more traditional castle/dungeon building.

 

Later you can bring on the magic and the Od Nua's crazy experiments which might have changed the landscape. I'm very tempted to see if they could add some elements from H. P. Lovecraft's The Case of Charles Dexter Ward which is based on similar consept of crazy wizard, dungeon, failed experiments and worked perfectly bringing lots of mystery and horror to the story (no, I don't want any Cthulhu references but I was referring the implement of dungeon/it's horrors from the book for some levels).

 

You could also ad lava if the dungeon goes too deep to reach it (this is a fantasy world) but it shouldn't look too much like diablo. Personally I'd prefer something else. More ''darker'' ancient evil, maybe something that (possibly) intercepted Od Nua during his hunger to dig deeper. That could create a consept of a whole new race or faction for the last levels. Something that was there all along, hiding/locked up down there for centuries until forgotten. Maybe the reason why Od Nua is so interested about those catacombs in the first place?

 

Also the optional ''unbeatable'' boss , discussed here http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/61341-unwinnable-encounters/page__hl__%20unbeatable%20%20boss, could be located at the very bottom. The whole thing is optional anyway and saves time to create place and story for that boss. That would create a lot of new ways to build up the story and keep the Endless Paths interesting. Example: Od Nua found that ancient horror/faction which attacked the old wizard causing war and destruction at the lower levels.

Earlier (don't remember where) it was even suggested that there would be two cities raging war down there (like now been suggested to happen between the two mega cities). Those factions could be the Od Nua and his experiments and those ancients, a war fought a long long time ago. Now it's your turn to search the remainings for what really happened. You could even create a city/dead city of the ancients at the bottom. Awesome place for some really abstract and unique city planning.

 

I don't think they have problem with ideas. A day ago I would have been worried about the time they have, but if 500k was calculated for the dungeon and they've already got 600k~ extra after that, even if most of that is used to polish the ''main game'' there should still be more than enough money to hire more people for the dungeon if needed. If they truly prepared for the possibility of up to 15 levels from the start, now with this amount of more money, the more the reason they have the capacity to make this happen.

 

Not even sorry for the long post.

[SarcasmoTheGreat]

Please developers: DON'T SCATTER "OD NUA JOURNAL" PAGES AROUND THE DUNGEON TO EXPLAIN ITS STORY!

 

It's so cheap and so not credible... please find another way to tell the dungeon's story!

 

Having wall carvings on each level detailing the events during its construction might be a compromise.

 

They won't have room. They need somewhere to put all of the memorial stones and messages of the people who paid for the game.

[DocDoomII]

They won't have room. They need somewhere to put all of the memorial stones and messages of the people who paid for the game.

If you don't like something you can say it without this not-to-subtle sarcasm. And the name kinda gives you away.

[Hassat Hunter]

I do fear that 14/15 becomes a bit too much, and may turn out to

1) Drag on TOO long

2) Take away too much of the rest of the game

3) Take up too much resources for the 2 big cities, outdoor areas and everything else planned

 

I definitely don't want it to be a single ride to the end, breaking it up as discussed and having a part be after-endboss sounds great to me.

To say "it could become tedious because it has 15 levels" is the same as to say "the outdoor areas could become tedious as there are 15+ of them".

Execept those aren't connected. You don't need to do 1,2,3,4,5. You may do 5,2,1,3,4. And vary it up next game. Dungeon? Not so much. Outdoors can also be part of the mainquest. Or other subquests. Considering the dungeon is "optional" it can only have it's internal story. Which may drag on too long (the outdoor can have all their own, making 15 stories for 1 dungeon is too much). Yes, it can have other sidequests, but the main dungeon story would still be the most omni-potent sidequest.

 

So, No, 15+ outdoor areas and 15+ dungeon are very VERY different. And I hope you now see so why.