170 replies to this topic

[buggeer]

Level scaling.
For me it's a curse of cRPGs. I prefer it when the monsters have a set level and venturing into a wild area means a death. I also love the feeling of an all powerful being that can kill a mere guard with a single strike.

What are your thoughts?

Edited by buggeer, 17 September 2012 - 11:54 PM.

[norfar]

God forbid level scaling its blasphemous!

[True_Spike]

Dear God, no. I am yet to see a game that uses level scaling to its advantage. Most of the time it's a game breaking mechanic, in one way or the other (gameplay or immersion).

[Freddo]

The worst thing about the lack of level scaling is that it makes the world feel really artificial, at least to me. By some strange coincidence the enemies just happens to be stronger and stronger in the world the way the player needs to move to progress the story further. And by sheer luck the weakest enemies just happens to be where the game starts. It's like this red line thru the game where enemies just get progressively stronger.

And at the same time, really strong level scaling can ruin the game immersion greatly, as seen with Oblivion. Although it didn't for the original Mass Effect, which I found a bit interesting, seeing they both pretty much use the same extreme level scaling.

Anyway, none of the poll options really suit me, or so I feel, so I didn't vote.

Edited by Freddo, 18 September 2012 - 12:05 AM.

[Bos_hybrid]

This shouldn't even be asked.

No level scaling.

[buggeer]

This should be asked in case someone makes a mistake and decides to put it in a game

[True_Spike]

Then don't make it so that the easiest monsters spawn at the start locations. Gothic 2 did a fine ass job of making the entire world feel dangerous - from start to finish. There were locations that were medium hard, there were locations that were hard and then there were locations that were bloody hard - all of them were placed, sort of, randomly (you *could* see some form of progression, but you'd really have to look for it to notice).

And to be honest, with level scaling, every location feels artificial. There's no challange at the beginning and there's no challenge at the apex of the game. Just a steady pace.

[buggeer]

That's what I meant when I said "wild areas". If you go to the forest expect some predators, when you go into the wilderness expect some high level bandits. But if you stick to the path it should be relatively safe. All of that within one location.

[HangedMan]

Seeing twenty votes for #1, and none for the others makes me feel dandy.

[Troller]

hahah this gotta be the most one sided poll ever

[Darkpriest]

You mad? No scaling at all!!!

[SanguineAngel]

Well, I think there's a missing option here.

I hate level scaling but I do think it's a bit lame when you reach higher levels and everything is too easy. I don't want to feel godlike. I still want combat to be a risk at any level.

So no level scaling, but I think the combat mechanics need to be developed to make combat important pretty much whoever you fight. apart from rats. Please don't make me fight rats. Rat's aren't combatants.

[aVENGER]

Kill it with fire.

Level scaling ruins any feeling of progression in a game.

[Jarmo]

I'm probably just imagining it, but... are the options maybe ever so slightly biased towards no scaling?

BTW, beside rats, don't make me fight random wolves or bears either. Those are wildlife and run away or avoid humans. Usually.

[fan]

I'm against scaling when it's done bad. (Oblivion)

However, spawning enemies within a bell curve of equipment quality and strength is good.
A totally unscaled game is linear to some degree, since there is always just one area that's right for you at a certain level.

I'd like to visit the swamp, the castle, and the woods in any order I chose, without one the first being insanely difficult and the last a piece of cake.

[eimatshya]

I would prefer to have no level scaling (or at least limited level scaling). While Freddo has a point that a lack of level scaling can lead to the odd situation in which stuff is segregated to specific areas according to level, this is not nearly as immersion breaking for me as having enemies that should be pushovers being almost as challenging as elite warriors and having bandits decked out in high end equipment that is worth so much that any sane bandits would have just sold the gear and retired to some tropical island, rather than risking their lives attacking similarly attired individuals.

Limited use of level scaling can work if only certain enemies scale with you. For example, if the primary antagonist scales with the player, this ensures that s/he will present a challenge regardless of how much you may have outleveled your average bandit, thug, gnoll, etc. Personally, I don't mind if I can kill a boss easily due to leveling up a lot, but I understand why designers might want to avoid this.

What I don't want to see (unless the game runs on rails, and you never return to earlier areas) is level scaling across the board like in Oblivion. In addition to the issues raised in the first paragraph, this kind of level scaling also tends to take away the sense of accomplishment you get from leveling up. In games with no level scaling when you face guys who could steamroll you back in the day and beat them down without breaking a sweat, it reinforces the sense that you've learned something from your journey. Surviving adversity has made you a stronger person. With level scaling, however, you often lack this sort of tangible feedback to show you how much you've grown over the course of your adventure. In fact, for all intents and purposes, you haven't grown. Everything is just as much a threat to you as it ever has been. You may have some new tricks, but they aren't necessarily any more effective than the tricks you started out with.

[Nakia]

No level scaling. Nothing is more boring than random encounters with things you can easily kill. I am hoping this will be a challenging game.

[leshy]

I don't mind level scaling as long as it sticks to what was it's initial idea. That world is dynamic and it's inhabitants also gain experience and levels.
I find it kind of stupid that in many rpgs I encounter the same type of enemies, that have changed nothing at all, while I gained 5/10/20 levels. That feels artificial.

[Ulicus]

I don't mind level scaling as long as it sticks to what was it's initial idea. That world is dynamic and it's inhabitants also gain experience and levels.
I find it kind of stupid that in many rpgs I encounter the same type of enemies, that have changed nothing at all, while I gained 5/10/20 levels. That feels artificial.

If you're encountering a fellow adventurer (or whathaveyou) over the course of the game several times then, sure, I'd agree. But it makes no sense for, say, a typical town guard of the setting to be more skilled by leaps and bounds by the end of the game just because the main character has levelled. That's not authentic -- it just reinforces that you're playing a game.

I also feel it's pretty daft if "Elite Guards" suddenly start appearing in places where previously a standard guard would have sufficed, for no reason other than the fact the game knows you're a higher level, now.

[Thraxen]

I don't mind level scaling as long as it sticks to what was it's initial idea. That world is dynamic and it's inhabitants also gain experience and levels.
I find it kind of stupid that in many rpgs I encounter the same type of enemies, that have changed nothing at all, while I gained 5/10/20 levels. That feels artificial.

If you're encountering a fellow adventurer (or whathaveyou) over the course of the game several times then, sure, I'd agree. But it makes no sense for, say, a typical town guard of the setting to be more skilled by leaps and bounds by the end of the game just because the main character has levelled. That's not authentic -- it just reinforces that you're playing a game.

I also feel it's pretty daft if "Elite Guards" suddenly start appearing in places where previously a standard guard would have sufficed, for no reason other than the fact the game knows you're a higher level, now.

Maybe no Elite Guards appearing in the place of the regular ones as you level, but if they're present from the start of the game (assuming we're talking town guards here) either guarding the more important areas of a city or if there's just a couple of them patrolling around the market or something. It would, in my opinion, make the game seem a lot more real.