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13 levels is auspicious for the mega dungeon...

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I am curious how big each level will be. I am having a hard time imagining a dungeon with levels as big as say Watcher's Keep that is this deep. That would be, almost, it's own separate game just by itself.

 

Believe it or not, watcher's keep levels are actually quite a bit smaller than what they got planned per level. Per Feargus, they're planning on dragon's eye sized levels IIRC, which as I recall the numbers given, is something like between 8x8 and 10x0 screens with each screen being 640x480.

 

This game will be huge.

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I'll admit that I wasn't thrilled with the mega dungeon idea at first, but with the lore they introduced it with and the ridiculously infectious enthusiasm shown for it, I'll have to say that it became one of my favourite stretch goals. Can't wait to see how they design a gigantic 13-14 level dungeon. It's going to be interesting! Hopefully each level is still reasonably big and filled with interesting content, though. I know it's a tall order, but still...

 

Maybe they can have scattered pages from the corpses of Obsidian Order explorers littered in the dungeon to explain its lore/story! XD

 

(I kid, but only halfway.)


Sword Sharpener of the Obsidian Order

(will also handle pitchforks and other sharp things)

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I think Blackstream has the right of it. Without knowing exactly how far funding would go, Obsidian had to make an educated guess as to how much content there would be. However, we handily met that challenge, perhaps more so then they ever imagined. Writing down, "We will do X" is far easier than actually planning it, scheduling it, and producing it. What works in our favor is that this team seems to be comprised not only of talented people, but passionate people that genuinely want to produce something special and experience right along with the players something cool. These are, literally, our kind of people making the game. And because of that, I am reassured they will give us something most entertaining. But I do get the feeling that they may be scrambling somewhat to fill the empty spaces in their developer party. I would insert a smiley here, but I am a Grue and that violates the contract...


It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue.

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I really hope they can keep 13 levels from becoming overly tedious.... I remember that 8? or 9? level dungeon in NWN and man was that ever a chore to complete. Watcher's keep and Durlags tower are both examples of megadungeons done right but those were only what 7 levels each? They have their work cut out for them if they're going to keep a dungeon almost twice that length interesting.

 

I like the idea of maybe dividing the dungeon in thirds or quarters and having to progress a certain amount in the main story before finding an item that will unlock the next portion. Either that or they could create a huge difficulty spike every 3 or 4 levels (with ample warning of whats to come in the next portion). That way if you really wanted a serious challenge you could put your low level party through maybe part of the 2nd portion (although with a lot of struggle). But most people who don't want to spend hours reloading every encounter just come back in after they've levelled a bit.

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I'm not really sure about having to find an item that unlocks the next part of the dungeon. It would get annoying that you progress 3 or 4 levels and you can't go further because you need an item somewhere else in the game. Then progress 3 or 4 more levels and yep, no more progression until you pick up something from a city 500 miles away.

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I'm confused about why people are complaining already about a problem I can only describe as "too much content" having seen nothing of what the devs are actually doing beyond descriptions and some artwork.

 

I have faith in Obsidian to get this right. Because if they don't, it will be remembered as one of the most epic game flops in recent history.

Edited by ZeroBlackbirds
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I'm not really sure about having to find an item that unlocks the next part of the dungeon. It would get annoying that you progress 3 or 4 levels and you can't go further because you need an item somewhere else in the game. Then progress 3 or 4 more levels and yep, no more progression until you pick up something from a city 500 miles away.

 

Yes, that's why I noted that it could be annoying depending on playstyle. It is however possible to design it in a way that you're not so much blocked as unaware or some other mechanism as StromIV mentioned in his post. Just as an example, we could tromp through 3 levels of the dungeon; meet who we think is an end boss, defeat it, get loot, etc. We leave the dungeon only to find ourselves having dreams about the place, about something we might have missed...we do a little research, and pow! a clue, go back, and a door appears where there wasn't one before.

 

Again, this is a bit risky, and its likely that Obsidian might design the endless Paths more straightforward. But at this size, we should really be haunted by the place, have it soak into our bones. I'm just thinking of ways to create that feeling.

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Since it's a completely original world, it would be interesting if they made a race of tiny people who lived down there and had their own colony... it would also give an excuse to have somewhere the player could breathe, re-group, and possibly even buy new stock part way through.

Edited by Stuart

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If I calculated correctly it should be at 14 levels. Not that it really matters anymore :D

they actually plotted out 15 levels, which i hope we still hit after all the final numbers are counted up. i just want to see their original vision

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If they add backers through Paypal we just might already be at 14 levels.

 

If they DONT, its a major bummer. A backer is a backer.

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If I calculated correctly it should be at 14 levels. Not that it really matters anymore :D

they actually plotted out 15 levels, which i hope we still hit after all the final numbers are counted up. i just want to see their original vision

 

Man, 15 levels is a lot just thinking about it. Especially if they make the map size the way we think they are. And also, since Paypal pledges are counted we are at 14 levels, and they are still taking more Paypal pledges for a while longer. I can't wait to see the final count and the total amount of floors they put in.

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If they add backers through Paypal we just might already be at 14 levels.

 

If they DONT, its a major bummer. A backer is a backer.

 

Don't worry, they do:

 

We will be keeping everyone updated on the number of donations, and the amount of money donated through PayPal. The numbers will contribute to The Endless Paths Mega Dungeon size and to the stretch goals. So far it looks like we are going to manually update the numbers, and the team is going to be looking at ways of presenting this in the next day or two.

 

Thanks!

Edited by StromIV

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Do you think this dungeon will be a major part of the game? Involving storyline and be necessary to go through?

 

I don't like the idea of having to go down a 14 level dungeon to continue in the main story, I hope it's just for grinding xp and money/boredem killer.

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The stone guy makes me think of the petrified remains of a trapped and killed god....

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The KS Collector's Edition does not include the Collector's Book.

Which game hook brought you to Project Eternity and interests you the most?

PE will not have co-op/multiplayer, console, or tablet support (sources): [0] [1] [2] [3] [4] [5] [6] [7]

Write your own romance mods because there won't be any in PE.

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"Most o' you wanderers are but a quarter moon away from lunacy at the best o' times." -Alvanhendar (Baldur's Gate 1)

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I'm afraid a mega dungeon this big will break the game. Think about it: in order to make players want to explore it the dungeon has to have exceedingly worthwhile rewards the farther down you go, which typically means housing some of the best items; weapons, armor, or whatever floats your boat. Is this dungeon going to be meant to be optional, or integral towards beating the game? It sounds like it's going to be optional, which means the main story quests and final battles will be balanced to be beatable by those who didn't go through this huge dungeon, and will probably be easy as hell for those that do. Therefore players are highly encouraged to explore the dungeon if they want the best loot, but are likely to just cruise through the ending afterwards.

 

I'm not saying it will happen exactly like this, just that I'm worried it will cause a host of balancing issues. This dungeon is more than twice the size of Watcher's Keep, what kind of goodies will need to be put in it to make it worthwhile to players other than on their first playthrough and what ramifications will this have?

 

Who cares about balance in a singleplayer. If you don't want to do the dungeon don't do it

 

And I believe the main storyline will be level scaled to some extent, so that makes it 'less' of a problem for you.

 

It does raise the issue of the experience table though. They will need a logarithmic or exponential system so that you feel like you're getting rewarded for completing the dungeon but it doesn't make you go up sheet loads of levels.

 

You could still go do the mega dungeon near the start of the game, somehow complete it and be say level 7 or 8 haha, but then you'd level up the rest of the game very slowly. Hopefully they get the level cap guesstimate correct like Tales of the Sword Coast did.

 

If this is how I want to play the game, why should I be penalized for it?

Edited by Sensuki

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Do you think this dungeon will be a major part of the game? Involving storyline and be necessary to go through?

 

I don't like the idea of having to go down a 14 level dungeon to continue in the main story, I hope it's just for grinding xp and money/boredem killer.

Perhaps some of it, at the beginning. But I don't think the entire dungeon will be part of the MQ. So don't worry :thumbsup:

 

 

 

Though I would love it to be honest.

 

 

The stone guy makes me think of the petrified remains of a trapped and killed god....

That would possibly be of Major importance. I think it's just going to be something for the former slaves to look at.

Edited by kenup

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Do you think this dungeon will be a major part of the game? Involving storyline and be necessary to go through?

 

I don't like the idea of having to go down a 14 level dungeon to continue in the main story, I hope it's just for grinding xp and money/boredem killer.

I'm gonna go with optional also. They will probably find a way to implement it as sort of a side quest (for those who want to actually complete it), but I do not see them making this a main completion requirement. Some people don't want to go through the whole thing just because it is needed, just like others will gladly spend hours/days (depending on total size) exploring every nook and cranny.

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Level 14 will probably just be a bathroom (I'm sure you'll really have to go by that point)! If we end up with a 15th level, it will probably just be the opening beneath the toilet -- which you may not even want to visit, even if there might be an awesome magical ring down there!

 

Of course, I'm just speculating here.


"Now to find a home for my other staff."
My Project Eternity Interview with Adam Brennecke

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If they designed 15 already and it only hits 14 I'd throw in the fifteenth secretly and make it hard to find the entrance to it. Like a secret super boss.

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So, do we have official confirmation about the eventual PayPal level?

 

Not yet. My understanding is it will take a bit of work to figure out how many unique backers donated via PayPal. Obsidian can only see the number of donations, but a lot of people donated twice. They have been using the average backer amount of Kickstarter to estimate how many backers contributed via PayPal, which last I heard the estimated number was around 3,000. This should put us at 14 levels, as has been suggested in this thread. That said, that's just an estimate, and PayPal isn't closed yet, so who knows.


"Now to find a home for my other staff."
My Project Eternity Interview with Adam Brennecke

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If they designed 15 already and it only hits 14 I'd throw in the fifteenth secretly and make it hard to find the entrance to it. Like a secret super boss.

 

Which are Morte and the true form of Boo!


Nothing is true, everything is permited.
 

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3 levels short of diablo


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