Baldur's Gate Enhanced Edition

[Bester]

 Imoen was going to be the Slayer / betrayer figure in BG2

Where did you read this? I'd like to read that too.

[Nepenthe]

All I know is that she was supposed to die in Spellhold, but that was changed fairly late in the development. Back before Bioware decided forced failure fits their storytelling better...

[Serrano]

All I know is that she was supposed to die in Spellhold, but that was changed fairly late in the development. Back before Bioware decided forced failure fits their storytelling better...

 

Failure to be rid of Imoen? 

 

I liked Imoen so I'm glad they changed it, some of her banter was very funny and endearing. Her as the betrayer/slayer sounded like an interesting arc though, is there anything written about it on the internet still?

Edited April 10, 2014 by Serrano

[Monte Carlo]

^ I read it in an interview with David Gaider somewhere.

 

They changed the Slayer to the PC relatively late in development, IE modders have found long-dead .ini files relating to it apparently.

 

Dave G obviously shares a lot about his work with fans. He once sent me a personal email when I couldn't get his mod to work for BG2 and helped me fix it. For all my reservations about the directions his work's taken, he is a pretty nice guy.

 

Edit: I don't know why it's significant, but iirc the Imoen thing might be linked (technically, not story-wise) with why you lose your Bhaal powers after you get the power to become the Slayer. Then someone modded it back in so you keep them.

 

If you think about the story arc, the end of Spellhold is the perfect time for Imoen to turn into a giant, spiked avatar of destruction.

Edited April 10, 2014 by Monte Carlo

[Nonek]

The protagonist becoming the Slayer through knowing himself is in my opinion the weakest part of the above argument, i'd also think the Slayer would manifest when the human element was removed, a la Imoen's soulless state.

[Hiro Protagonist II]

 

Don't let facts get in the way of your trolling Gromnir. As I said, this has nothing to do with BIS. 

 

oh well, if you said it, it must be true. say it again and maybe it will stick, right? but this is getting mighty repetitive.

 

"Also, the fact is Nepenthe said (unsubstantiated and pure speculation) that the coding was a disaster that miraculously worked."

 

again, black isle made similar observations about the ie, so while nep did not support, the claim that his observations is unsubstantiated is making you look silly.  you try to imagine-away the fact that bis made same/similar observations as nep... which is why bis IS relevant no matter how many times you do the little kid routine: pre-adolescent screaming "no it isn't" over and over as if volume and sheer stubbornness will make truth. 

 

well, say something new. please.

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

 

Gromnir, you seem to be missing the point you said:

 

 

 

 

bio knew how and why things worked

 

 

Overhaul games have original bio employees who worked on BG.

 

You're now comparing Overhaul (former Bio employees who knew how and why things worked) with BIS? Because BIS had trouble with the IE engine, therefore it follows Overhaul has problems with IE engine, regardless that Overhaul are former Bio employees and Bio knew how and why things worked.

 

You're also comparing Overhaul (former Bio employees who knew how and why things worked) with re-doing a game and engine they already had experienced with to BIS who was creating a new game (IWD) with an engine they haven't created a game before with it. You're comparing experienced former Bio employees (who knew how and why things worked) to BIS employees who were new to the engine, since you said this was their first game with it.

 

Even Nep said there should be a level playing field. So why not you?

 

HA! Good Fun!

Edited April 11, 2014 by Hiro Protagonist II

[Gromnir]

repeating yourself? we already addressed these points a few posts ago... but is understandable you don't recall as it were weeks ago that we were following you in circles on this issue. scroll up please... not too far. am sure you can find even w/o our adding silly emoticons to lead you. however, we will point out that iwd was Not the first game bis worked 'pon with the ie engine. this would be easier if you at least knew simple facts.  and no, we ain't comparing bis to overhaul (again, see above.) regardless, bis is not a collective of people who has never done any programming, and they criticized the ie with some vigor.

 

which brings us to what you said:

 

"You've never done any programming I see. Coding disasters don't just miraculously work. That's an insult to the programmers and other people who worked on the games. It also implies that the programmers didn't know what they were doing at the time with their coding (coding disaster as you put it), but hey. it somehow how miraculously worked. Must be special programming magic. Also, as a few have pointed out, they have some of the original team members working on the EE's."

 

and now we is full circle.

 

am wondering how many times we is gonna follow you 'round this silly maypole.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Hiro Protagonist II]

And you keep repeating yourself Gromnir. Going around in circles, evading the simple facts of what you said about "bio knew how and why things worked". And now you don't want to even acknowledge what you said. The facts speak for themselves.

 

And why are you quoting myself about coding disasters that don't miraculously work? Do you honestly believe that they do? Even Nep said that was hyperbole with what he said. You now believe Nep's hyperbole?

 

Yep, am wondering how many times you're going to believe the exaggerations and the hyperbole.

[Gromnir]

this is a bit like talking to vol. am not certain where to go at this point. seriously, scroll up and you will see where you made exact same observations and Gromnir already addressed your quoted material. honest. just scroll up.

 

...

 

if you got a problem, we will all understand.  posting while drunk is, as far as embarrassing habits go, relative harmless. 

 

*shrug*

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Hiro Protagonist II]

It's okay Gromnir. We know you like to state things like "bio knew how and why things worked". We know Overhaul has former bio employees. We know Overhaul had access to Bio's offices to get what they needed. Overhaul is supposed to be enhancing an already finished game which they helped to create when they were at Bio.

 

And yet you bring in the usual red herring like compare Overhaul to BIS due to BIS having problems with IE engine, therefore Overhaul has problems. Despite the fact that Overhaul has former Bio employees and should know "how and why things worked".

 

Gromnir's illogical stupidity at its best, which is to say there is no logic. Gromnir jumping to one point to another, believing the hyperbole. You can have the last say because it seems you're itching to do so.

[Whitefox789]

From a programmer standpoint I'll say, you can have a very good idea of how everything in your engine works and what tools are available for you to use. Though with all causality of events you cannot predict everything that is going to happen within your IDE I'll agree with Hiro in saying coding flaws don't work miraculously, what is really going on is the programmer put many work arounds in the case of common errors that  would occur and for ones that are truly abnormal they should/would place an Interrupt Service Routine so you can exit out of your application nicely (so you don't bring down the OS) while also saving what data you can from that session which isn't corrupted.

 

I'll also just put a general thought out there even with Overhaul containing former Bioware employees we can't necessarily guarantee that they have all the documentation regarding the IE. You have some pieces from the puzzle missing I've heard a lot of stories where an employee that has left a corporation, they have a system they design contain a fatal error years later and while it might be more advantageous to recreate the system from scratch they will instead depend on the new guy working on the system to fix the old system. The issue with that is he wasn't the original architect he can only have so many ideas for how the old guy went about to design this system. Not to mention their are nearly almost infinite possibilities to accomplish something programming wise (unless its the guys who set the standard for the language, they will tell you your method is wrong and everything you do is wrong :D).

Edited April 11, 2014 by Whitefox789

[Gromnir]

 

 

And yet you bring in the usual red herring like compare Overhaul to BIS due to BIS having problems with IE engine,

 

 

...

 

*sigh*

 

you got offended when nep suggested that IE were a mess... you said he were ignorant and couldn't know anything 'bout programming to make such claims. nep were not only wrong, but insulting. Gromnir observed that the black isle developers made similar claims about the IE... more than once.  do you know what a red herring is? is clear not what you think it to be, that is for sure.  regardless, you has somehow volourn'd yourself into a kinda infinite repeating loop. the black isle developers who worked 'pon Planescape, then iwd, heart of winter... and trials of the luremaster and icewind dale 2 is, one would assume, meeting the subjective threshold o' programming knowledge  and personal familiarity with the infinity engine you found wanting in nep. sure, you can ignore the other folks in this thread who seems to have programming knowledge and disagree with you, but suggesting that Black Isle comments on the exact point 'bout which you and nep disagreed is nothing more than red herring is not so much curious as they is clear obtuse.

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

ps please, say something new... anything. really. 

Edited April 11, 2014 by Gromnir

[BruceVC]

 

 

 

And yet you bring in the usual red herring like compare Overhaul to BIS due to BIS having problems with IE engine,

 

 

...

 

*sigh*

 

you got offended when nep suggested that IE were a mess... you said he were ignorant and couldn't know anything 'bout programming to make such claims. nep were not only wrong, but insulting. Gromnir observed that the black isle developers made similar claims about the IE... more than once.  do you know what a red herring is? is clear not what you think it to be, that is for sure.  regardless, you has somehow volourn'd yourself into a kinda infinite repeating loop. the black isle developers who worked 'pon Planescape, then iwd, heart of winter... and trials of the luremaster and icewind dale 2 is, one would assume, meeting the subjective threshold o' programming knowledge  and personal familiarity with the infinity engine you found wanting in nep. sure, you can ignore the other folks in this thread who seems to have programming knowledge and disagree with you, but suggesting that Black Isle comments on the exact point 'bout which you and nep disagreed is nothing more than red herring is not so much curious as they is clear obtuse.

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

ps please, say something new... anything. really. 

 

 " something new"

 

There I said it on behalf of Hiro

[213374U]

The protagonist becoming the Slayer through knowing himself is in my opinion the weakest part of the above argument, i'd also think the Slayer would manifest when the human element was removed, a la Imoen's soulless state.

 

Imoen herself suggests this is because the Bhaal essence is simply more concentrated in charname than in her. This is later confirmed by Yaga-Shura in ToB—unsurprisingly, charname has more Bhaal essence than anyone!!1

 

Regardless, WotC have determined that, to mark their release of 5th ed., the guy who fought Melissan for the right to ascend to godhood and won is just a level 4 fighter. Take that, BG fans! 

[Bartimaeus]

Edit: I don't know why it's significant, but iirc the Imoen thing might be linked (technically, not story-wise) with why you lose your Bhaal powers after you get the power to become the Slayer. Then someone modded it back in so you keep them.

 

I was under the impression you lost your Bhaalspawn powers because you lost your Bhaal-tainted soul...you get them back at the beginning of Throne of Bhaal, if I'm not mistaken.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

So in FR canon the Bhaalspawn who managed to defeat a demi-goddess, a supermage, Kangaxx, dragons, mindflayers, beholders, and a ****load of other powerful creatures was a 4th level fighter?

 

Eiter 4th level in 5e is insane or the fellows in charge of the lore have done a **** job.

[Nepenthe]

 

 

The protagonist becoming the Slayer through knowing himself is in my opinion the weakest part of the above argument, i'd also think the Slayer would manifest when the human element was removed, a la Imoen's soulless state.

Imoen herself suggests this is because the Bhaal essence is simply more concentrated in charname than in her. This is later confirmed by Yaga-Shura in ToB—unsurprisingly, charname has more Bhaal essence than anyone!!1

 

Regardless, WotC have determined that, to mark their release of 5th ed., the guy who fought Melissan for the right to ascend to godhood and won is just a level 4 fighter. Take that, BG fans!

And that's not even the worst part, tbh. I thought charname becoming a duke of Baldur's Gate and the marshall of Flaming Fist was pretty cool, though.

[Starwars]

I don't have the EE version but I decided to dig out my old BG1 discs and play some. I only installed some fixes and a resolution change patch. It still feels pretty good to play in my opinion. The biggest issues I have from a user standpoint is A) pathfinding and character speed and B) the journal.

Sometimes it just takes *forever* to go places, and when your guys get stuck on things... gaah.

I wish the journal was divided into sections for better usability.

 

Other than that, I actually think it holds up well as a fun D&D adventure. It is a bit rough in the early levels (as in, kinda boring at times because of how easy you can die and not always be able to do a lot about it) but once it gets going, it's still pretty fun. The atmosphere, which I always regarded as the BG series' real strength, is still wonderful.

 

Not the greatest game in the world, but still fun to mess around in.

[Gromnir]

complete fail posting... deleted

 

HA! Good Fun!

Edited April 11, 2014 by Gromnir

[213374U]

So in FR canon the Bhaalspawn who managed to defeat a demi-goddess, a supermage, Kangaxx, dragons, mindflayers, beholders, and a ****load of other powerful creatures was a 4th level fighter?

 

Eiter 4th level in 5e is insane or the fellows in charge of the lore have done a **** job.

 

They just assumed everyone just Ctrl+Y'd their way through the whole trilogy. Or maybe this is in revenge for players chunking Drizzt at every opportunity. 

 

 

 

 

The protagonist becoming the Slayer through knowing himself is in my opinion the weakest part of the above argument, i'd also think the Slayer would manifest when the human element was removed, a la Imoen's soulless state.

Imoen herself suggests this is because the Bhaal essence is simply more concentrated in charname than in her. This is later confirmed by Yaga-Shura in ToB—unsurprisingly, charname has more Bhaal essence than anyone!!1

 

Regardless, WotC have determined that, to mark their release of 5th ed., the guy who fought Melissan for the right to ascend to godhood and won is just a level 4 fighter. Take that, BG fans!

And that's not even the worst part, tbh. I thought charname becoming a duke of Baldur's Gate and the marshall of Flaming Fist was pretty cool, though.

 

 

Yeah, I actually liked the concept for the first act, with the the attack on the crowd and the result of the assassination attempt being largely irrelevant to what ends up happening. And it's kinda clever that they dug up Viekang. But given the absurd power levels of famous people in the FR setting, it's weird that they chose this particular bit of lore to create an entry-level adventure.

[Monte Carlo]

Wow, I haven't read a D&D module for years...

 

now they give the DM a script?

 

* grumbles *

 

And, yeah, 'Abdel Adrian' needs to be a 28th level badass.

[rjshae]

I've been playing the BGEE/BG2EE series through from beginning to end--the third or fourth time now that I've played each, although the last time was many years ago with the original releases. I've got to say... it's getting kind of boring. This will probably be my last go through. I just wanted to play a single character all the way through from beginning to end, which I've never done. But, with the perspective of history now, I feel like my character lacks any, well... character. There's no sense of identity. It's the other members of the party that have a personality. I guess I've been spoiled by more recent CRPG releases.

[Zoraptor]

 'Abdel Adrian'

Tells me all I need to know. Anything even slightly referencing the novels is immediately downgraded to crap level, actually calling him charname would be better.

 

Oh god, it's got Minsc as well. Chop him to sausage in BG, leave him to be squashed in BG2 and still that hapless cliche pursues me into media I voluntarily read and could have guessed he was in from the title pic.

[Bester]

http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Abdel_Adrian Although Adrian eventually escaped the grasp of Irenicus, he ended up being aided by Bodhi. Slowly, he began to fall in love with Bodhi, who had already fallen for him, with the two ending up on an adventure to stop Irenicus. Travelling with Bodhi, Abdel eventually acted on his feelings for her and the two had sex.[citation needed] However, before they were going to again consummate, Abdel transformed into the Bhaalspawn Slayer and murdered his love. After defeating Irenicus, Abdel resumed his romance with Jaheira

 

Oh wow xD

[Bartimaeus]

...my lord...that is a lot worse sounding than I expected.