Multi-Classing

[ArchBeast]

I don't find a topic for this subject on our beautiful forum. I want multiclassing. Warrior-mage, kenai-mage mage-priest were always my faworite multiclass i pick up.

 

I think that not only i whould like tu play a character with 2 or mayby even more classes. Post your thouts about this.

 

In the terms Multiclasser i mean a person that have 2 or more classes let's say fighter 10 lvl and mage 20 lvl.

 

If you hawe your thouts about multi-class problems than tell as about it.

 

Thank you wery much.

Edited October 11, 2012 by ArchBeast

[Osvir]

Update #12 with Tim Cain I think.

http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/60798-update-12-reddit-qa-with-tim-cain/

They aren't going to design the game initially with Multi-Classing (e.g., they are considering Multi-Classing, but before doing that Obsidian wants to focus on the Main Classes).

 

Bonus question: Are you considering multiclassing?

 

Answer: Bonus questions are cheating…but yes, we are considering adding multi-classing to the game. A better way to put this answer is that we are not ruling them out at this time. If they work well with our final system, we will offer them.

[rjshae]

I was thinking along the lines of shared enhancement trees that you can earn with certain combinations of class levels. This would be used to balance out the spell-casting progression and to provide additional character tuning options. Perhaps make external training a requirement for access, as per DA:O.

[Tale]

That was my question. If you're not cheating, you're not really playing.

 

I would like it to be in, but won't be disappointed if it's not. When it comes to class balance, I'm fairly flexible. I think that limited synergy is good enough of a balancing tactic, though imperfect. I think some synergy should still exist. Mages should have spells that can use sneak attack, though not all spells. That sort of thing.

[AGX-17]

I like the idea of the freedom it provides, but it does kind of run counter to the concept of a class system to begin with. At the same time, it seems like the Soul system in PE is basically providing magic-type abilities to all classes, so that's a sort of multi-classing in itself.

[Ieo]

Other multiclass threads:

http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/61180-multi-class-establishing-proper-lorenpctrainers

http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/61109-classes-and-races-with-regard-to-stats-and-multiclass-penalty-implementation/

 

 

 

 

Update #12 with Tim Cain I think.

http://forums.obsidi...-with-tim-cain/

They aren't going to design the game initially with Multi-Classing (e.g., they are considering Multi-Classing, but before doing that Obsidian wants to focus on the Main Classes).

 

Bonus question: Are you considering multiclassing?

 

Answer: Bonus questions are cheating…but yes, we are considering adding multi-classing to the game. A better way to put this answer is that we are not ruling them out at this time. If they work well with our final system, we will offer them.

 

Keep in mind that Update 12 was before Update 15 with the actual class descriptions. As I mentioned in a different thread--

 

Honestly, I think the extreme flexibility within the parent class descriptions of Update 15 is intended precisely to counter multiclassing completely.

 

Adding multi-/dual-classing adds a layer of complexity concerning balance, I imagine, thus allowing substantial flexibility within specified limits of a main class description would probably be easier to implement. Not that I'm against multiclassing--I usually do it--but the D&D classes you could combine in BG, for example, were far stricter in actual practice (limitations) than the classes described in U15.

 

I'm thinking that adding multiclass to very flexible classes like this would be too much work for Obsidian...

 

As for stats, I'm good with what Obsidian decides. /shrug

 

With the "extreme" flexibility class options proposed in Update 15, I don't think multiclassing would be a good idea for balance purposes (and I'm a multiclasser/hybridizer).

[JallaAllah]

Although this will probably never happen I'm going to suggest another way of multiclassing: NWN2 + MotB

 

Probably one of the most interesting concepts for multiclassing, since it has both at once: Restrictions (mostly by level and stats/skills) + Variability (by number)

[Sylvius the Mad]

I don't agree that Baldur's Gate's multiclasses were overpowered. Dual-classing was overpowered, but multiclassing in AD&D had significant drawbacks.

[Tsuga C]

The key thing with multi-classing is to eliminate the "one and done" phenomenon that crops up regularly when a particular class is front-loaded with a particularly desirable feat or skill at 1st level. Please, Obsidian, do NOT front-load powerful abilities into any of the classes you construct for P:E. If your playtesters are consistently creating characters with a level profile of 1A/19B, you really need to take a look at the powers of class A and adjust their distribution.

 

I have a strong preference for single-classed characters as I believe it tends to promote the "team concept", but I have used multi-class characters in NWN1 (e.g. rogue/shadowdancer or rogue/assassin) when two classes are needed to realize a particular character I have envisioned. At epic levels, I've used a 20A/10B before, but I'm generally a single-class player.

Edited October 11, 2012 by Tsuga C

[Tale]

The key thing with multi-classing is to eliminate the "one and done" phenomenon that crops up regularly when a particular class is front-loaded with a particularly desirable feat or skill at 1st level. Please, Obsidian, do NOT front-load powerful abilities into any of the classes you construct for P:E. If your playtesters are consistently creating characters with a level profile of 1A/19B, you really need to take a look at the powers of class A and adjust their distribution.

 

I have a strong preference for single-classed characters as I believe it tends to promote "team concept", but I have used multi-class characters in NWN1 (e.g. rogue/shadowdancer or rogue/assassin) when two classes are needed to realize a particular character I have envisioned.

Indeed. Everytime I did a character that had any rogue in it, I always went rogue at level 1. The 4x bonus disproportionately benefited him. And almost any dexterity based character could benefit from a level of Warlock in Neverwinter Nights 2, due to Leap and Bounds. That's a really good point I'd forgotten all about.

[Merin]

I don't want multi-classing. Make the classes interesting enough and adjustable enough to stand on their own.

 

Anything even close to multi-classing I would want would be like the specializations in DA:O, though that wasn't the best way to go at all either.

 

If there must be something outside of taking one class... the chosen class should be it, but there can be a sub-class option of some kind later in leveling. ONE choice to make (there can be more than one option, but you only get to "specialize" once.)

 

Classes should be more than each level deciding which bag of tricks to pull from.

[Ieo]

I don't agree that Baldur's Gate's multiclasses were overpowered. Dual-classing was overpowered, but multiclassing in AD&D had significant drawbacks.

 

Oh yeah, that part of the poll didn't make sense to me, but that's in 2ed terms. Dual was nice, multiclassing required patience with the combined and locked limitations--in 2ed D&D. Restricted multiclassling like that would be fine, except the flexibility in the parent classes would supercede all that, I imagine.

 

And, uh, specialization within a parent class is not multiclassing. ?

 

Given all the content I want PE to have, I think multiclassing is a mechanic crossing into combat balance they can comfortably avoid given class flexibility. Better to concentrate depth and breadth within the confines of given class descriptions, IMO...

[ArchBeast]

Sylvius the Mad

 

I think that multiclassing in baldour gate was overpower but okey everywon has their own opinion and thats cool. I think that they where overpower comaping to neverwinter crossclassing. In baldour you had exp. penalty end okey but at the end of the game lats say Mage/warior/rouge way more pawerfull than lets say pure warrior or rouge.

 

Thanks for respon excpecially to people that posted links thu other topics with multiclassing...

[Ashram]

Good questions, but I propose that the last question isn't really needed. Who is going to say they want an unbalanced overpowered or underpowered multiclassing system?

Edited October 11, 2012 by Ashram

[Ashram]

The key thing with multi-classing is to eliminate the "one and done" phenomenon that crops up regularly when a particular class is front-loaded with a particularly desirable feat or skill at 1st level. Please, Obsidian, do NOT front-load powerful abilities into any of the classes you construct for P:E. If your playtesters are consistently creating characters with a level profile of 1A/19B, you really need to take a look at the powers of class A and adjust their distribution.

 

I have a strong preference for single-classed characters as I believe it tends to promote "team concept", but I have used multi-class characters in NWN1 (e.g. rogue/shadowdancer or rogue/assassin) when two classes are needed to realize a particular character I have envisioned.

Indeed. Everytime I did a character that had any rogue in it, I always went rogue at level 1. The 4x bonus disproportionately benefited him. And almost any dexterity based character could benefit from a level of Warlock in Neverwinter Nights 2, due to Leap and Bounds. That's a really good point I'd forgotten all about.

 

This happens in many games. In Star Wars SAGA you had people take 1 level of Noble for all the skills to train in, or a single dip into Scout to get the Evasion Talent. Balance is key!

[Tsuga C]

Indeed. Everytime I did a character that had any rogue in it, I always went rogue at level 1. The 4x bonus disproportionately benefited him. And almost any dexterity based character could benefit from a level of Warlock in Neverwinter Nights 2, due to Leap and Bounds. That's a really good point I'd forgotten all about.

 

The rogue/skill points issue never bothered me very much as I like having plenty of skill points to use for two of the social skills. Seeing lots of "one and done" rangers and shadowdancers, however, always rubbed me the wrong way, as did taking one level of monk just for the wisdom bonus to armor class. How many freakin' Lawful Neutral monk/druids can there be running around the woodlands, after all?

[ArchBeast]

i can't edit the poll enyway so ... :D

[Greensleeve]

I think multi-classing is extremely important as a feature, unless they include crazy amounts of flexibility within each class. Unless we can add spell casting to fighters (or changes of equivalent weight), multi-classing is almost required. There are so many character concepts that hinge on being able to use, essentially, abilities from two classes, with lower proficiency than single-classed characters, that multi-classing is almost a must.

 

A system along the lines of D&D is pretty good for that, or even better, Star Wars Saga. AD&D was pretty bad, but it worked in Baldur's Gate fairly well. You could make very playable fighter/mages and similar.

 

Now, I believe that Obsidian will pull this off properly, I really do. If not through multi-classing, then through flexibility within the class, maybe similar to the Pathfinder archetype system. Actually, that might be a really good system to look at for flexibility within classes...

[Shevek]

This poll is biased. Multiclassing in BG was not overpowered. People still made plenty of single class characters.

 

No 3rd edition style multiclassing please - that just sucks. It gets Martial/Arcane mix classes all wrong. The reason prestige classes exist now is to fix the problems of 3E multiclassing.

 

AD&D Multiclassing is WAY better.

Edited October 12, 2012 by Shevek

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

I think 3/3.5E did multiclassing perfectly. Something like that would give the most freedom for customization.

[Osvir]

Couldn't I just Multi-Class as I level up/story events/Class Quests? Couldn't I just become a Fighter/Thief if I am a Fighter joining the Thief Guild? :D

 

The latest of these would be so badass and most interesting I think (Thieves Guild one), but it would also require more time/thought than just throwing in a mundane/non-explanatory Class Combining script in Character Creation.

[Shevek]

I think 3/3.5E did multiclassing perfectly. Something like that would give the most freedom for customization.

 

It did NOT. They had to put in feats like "Practiced Spellcaster" to make martial/magic multiclasses viable and that just added ANOTHER penalty to multiclassing (a feat cost). Folks had to house rule passive caster levels into the rules to make 3E multiclasses worth a damn without resorting to using cheesy Prestige Classes or unfair feat costs (some d20 system out there is sold using those passive caster levels, don't recall the company or the name of the system at the moment).

 

In 2E aDnD, exp levels were different. You could achieve Fighter (14)/Mage (14) with the same xp that it took to get to 20 in either. That made the multiclasses much more viable than just a typical 10/10 3E multiclass. This was not unbalanced because the attack/hp bonuses were done differently. There was THAC0 progression and front loaded HP progression (these systems, I might add, are just plain better - sure they can be confusing, but they make it so enemies of lower level remain a viable threat)

Edited October 13, 2012 by Shevek

[common swift]

I think 3/3.5E did multiclassing perfectly. Something like that would give the most freedom for customization.

While I like the flexibility this system provides, creating a Deep Gnome Monk(5)/Rogue(1)/Dreadmaster of Bane(12)/Conjurer(12) in IWD2 makes me question it nevertheless.

[Gyor]

They could take ideas from how D&D next 5e plans to do multiclassing. When picking your first class things are more front loaded, when taking a level in any other class the progression is different, less front loaded. Basically treating multiclassing like a Prestige Class/es.

 

Personally I kind of want to be either Priest or Chanter multiclassed with Cipher.

[Lady Evenstar]

I'd prefer fewer classes, no multi-classing, and lots of opportunity to develop the classes in different ways via feats